Doing it all wrong -- and getting it right

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Mr Flibble

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So, we've all seen the 'rules' that as writers we should follow. Write tight. Too much backstory is bad mmkay? If it's your first novel, don't go over 100K ( or 120 odd if it's SFF). Get inside the character's head. Avoid filter words. Get the plot moving and keep it moving. If it isn't essential to the plot, don't put it in. Avoid excessive description. Use your grammar: gerrund clauses are to be used sparingly. No run on sentences.

So I'm reading a book at the mo that breaks every single one.

Write tight? Often a dozen words are used when five would do.

Not too much backstory? Between each chapter is an often lengthy chunk of backstory and / or an authorial aside.

Don't have your word count too high? A debut novel, and a quick, and very conservative estimate would put this at least 180k - possibly as much as 200k.

Get inside the character's head? It's written in third, and while it isn't omni, we don't get inside their heads much either, so it's not limited. It's kind of ...third person vague.

Avoid filter words? If these were all cut, the book would proably be 5k shorter.

Get the plot moving? Well the end of the first act was about half way. Then the poop hit the fan for fifty pages. The next fifty pages have been....nothing much in the way of plot. The MC is planning, but I don't know what he's planning because of the POV vague thing. He's wearing a very nice ( and minutely described) jacket though.

If it isn't essential to the plot, don't put it in. Avoid excessive description?
Well I know the exact ingredients of every meal the MC has eaten -- in fact I could probably write out the recipies. The clothes are described down to the last stitch. Everything is described. Each district of the city is laid out, whether the MC goes there or not -- and tbh I can't keep all the names straight in my head.

Use your grammar: gerrund clauses are to be used sparingly. No run on sentences.
Gerrund clauses are sprinked over the page like hundreds and thousands. Comma / semi colon splicing is so common I'm beginning to wonder if the author's keyboard has an intermittent problem with the full stop key.


So, given all this, why the hell am I enjoying it so much?
 

Staroffurby

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About a month ago i was talking about the very same thing. A friend had just finished a book that broke the rules. I can't remember how the conversation went due to some fermented sugar based drinks being served. The solution we came to was simply the author enjoyed this rebel writing style, breaking the rules gave them a kick and this enjoyment came across in the writing.

As some say "Rules are there to be broken!"
 

JJ Cooper

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Third person vague. Brilliant. I'm gonna use that now.

I suppose I need to get a bit serious because we're in the novel writing thread.

I got nothing...wait...plot beats all. There - carry on.

JJ
 

Prozyan

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So, given all this, why the hell am I enjoying it so much?

Thats the answer right there. The "rules" exist to help make a book more enjoyable. In general, they aren't rock hard "rules" but more like guidelines. Entertainment is the most important, and often the most difficult, factor.
 

HeronW

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Because what works outweighs what doesn't work.
There's something to make you care wtf happens.
You paid for the book and damnit you don't want to waste it by tossing it in the bin.
You got it for free and it kills time nicely.
:}
 

Staroffurby

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Thats the answer right there. The "rules" exist to help make a book more enjoyable. In general, they aren't rock hard "rules" but more like guidelines. Entertainment is the most important, and often the most difficult, factor.

You have hit upon a good point. Sometimes we are so focused on these rules and technique that we forget the most important thing, enjoyment. Anything you write must be found enjoyable by the reader and sadly i think too many forget that.
 

Juniper1

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Because writing is a creative venture, reading is a subjective one, and rules can stifle both. Delete rule, insert suggestion. (I do admit to referring to Vonnegut's eight rules periodically. They make me less fearful about the things I must write and the ways I must write them.)

Enjoy your good read.
 

Toothpaste

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Many new writers think they are the exception to the rules. Few are. Some, though, turn out to be.

As others have said, rules are meant to be broken, but you can only really break them if you know them in the first place. To me also the number one rule of writing is "If it works, do it". You can do whatever the heck you want in writing so long as you do it well.
 

Danger Jane

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Prozyan said it well. The "rules" aren't exactly made to be broken...but many stories would be incoherent without them. I think some, though, must thrill or touch some deeper part of us, because they keep us reading in spite of defying those conventions (and not for artistic effect).
 

Mr Flibble

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I just sort of wondered. I mean I've seen agents and editors all throw up their hands in horror at the mere mention of not using the 'rules' I've stated.

Yet at least one agent and one editor ( major publishing house too) must not worry too much about them :) They've been lying all that time!

I'm still wondering what it is exactly about this book I like, and I can't put my finger on it. It's just good. Except all those recipies, I could live without those.
 

ishtar'sgate

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So, given all this, why the hell am I enjoying it so much?
Because the author knows how to tell a great story. For me, rules are loose suggestions and are not set in stone. Rules may help your framework but by and large don't help much when it comes to the artistic part of storytelling.
Linnea
 

Kalyke

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Each novel stands on its own. I don't in particular like reading novels that have few adjectives and adverbials. The writing seems weak and watered down. It is fine for someone who reads at a grade school level. Somewhere down the line, editors started to want and expect books written for people with limited vocabularies. I personally like reading older literature, and books written by writers from South America and other countries. South Africa is putting out some wonderful novelists now. There is more freedom in those books, more poetry, and more obvious love of the craft.

I once posted the starting chapter of a book that had a few exclamation marks in it. I was nearly threatened with death, called all sorts of names, told I had no writing skills whatsoever. Imagine my surprise when I read a Hemingway novel and found multiple use of exclamation marks throughout. Who should I trust, some close minded, unpublished 16 year old, or a classic novelist?
 
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Mr Flibble

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Maybe because its embarrassing? I know its a Mr Man book :)

Busted!

Not any particular reason bar : I don't want to diss what I think is a favourite book of a few people here. ( it's regularly reccommended in one of the genre forums) It's wasn't about the book, it was about the rules or lack thereof.

Perhaps the question should be, would the book be even more fun if it had been edited to follow some rules better?
Possibly.
 

SPMiller

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It sounds like you're talking about Robert Jordan's books. They fit all your criteria.

But I never see those recommended, at least not when we're being serious ;)
 

Staroffurby

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It sounds like you're talking about Robert Jordan's books. They fit all your criteria.

But I never see those recommended, at least not when we're being serious ;)

That name never came to mind and it could well be one of his books. Not my taste at all, did try reading the Dragon reborn i think it was called. Very hard to read and if i remember correctly the fragmented sentences made it hard work.
 

Shweta

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Actually a name came to my mind. I've recommended a book, several times, that fits everything IRUs said there if I remember right. The story starts on page 60, I swear. But it is so much fun I don't care.

That's part of why I recommend it. I think some of us get... locked down into the rules. The rules are all there for reasons, and they're not going to save a lame story, they're not going to destroy an awesome story, and they're not always applicable.

ETA: However, if IRUs means the book I'm thinking about, I'd say everything laid out in post #1 here is a reason I didn't like the book as much as I could have (ditto my husband, who is not a writer).
 
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Triomferus

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Last time I use you as a BETA, IdoitsRUs. Could have just sent me an email.

JJ

Third person vague. Brilliant. I'm gonna use that now.

I suppose I need to get a bit serious because we're in the novel writing thread.

I got nothing...wait...plot beats all. There - carry on.

JJ

I'm confused... what do these posts have to do with the thread?
 

Shweta

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Since you're new and might need to be poked to do this: check your rep comments :D

Also, :welcome:
 

Triomferus

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Thanks :). I actually didn't notice that this forum had reputation points, either :D.
 
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