The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Bad news

Unfortunately, the news today can't all be good. I will quote from a source without giving the name so that the source will not become the target of taunts and insults.

I just got back last evening from Washington D.C. I learned a lot while I was in Maryland and Washington about what rights I have regarding PA. I'll list a few to help you, but remember, each case is different. If you have a lawyer that tells you something different, by all means, take your own legal advice, not mine.

1. If you have consideration loss, you have the right to seek private council and try and file a civil case against PA. If you have no considerable loss then as an author you cannot sue for damages. The AG will not fight for the rights of individuals who are looking for compensation of any kind or to bring suits not based in factual "fraudulent" evidence. The information I presented from my site was not enough legal evidence for the AG office to find conclusive enough to prosecute. According to the AG lawyer I spoke to, everything PA markets on their site is written legally.

2. Misleading information represented on the PA site falls under the Federal Trade Commission and NOT the Attorney Generals office or BBB. The AG is investigating the BBB's lack of reporting on PA, but found no recourse to date.

3. Every letter that the AG sent to PA regarding practices has been resolved, according to the AG. That means that they wrote PA a letter and PA fixed the "oversight" immediately. The AG does not deem PA liable or have intent to fraud or mislead at this time. According to their records, PA has not lied, manipulated or committed such acts against any author. PA stands by this information and according to the AG, they cannot prove in a court of law otherwise. In many cases the AG office considers an author to be a company and not an individual. They will not dispute company issues of any kind.

4. The AG continues to investigate letters received by authors, but when PA is notified, they release the authors, thereby making sure that authors have no legal recourse and it appears to the AG that they are in fact trying to do business legitimately.

End of quoted material.

What this means is that those few writers who were deprived of royalties in the recent Special Discount with Royalties that PA conducted are now the best chance against PA provided they file their complaints against PA with the Maryland AG, the FTC, and the BBB.

Re: Bad news

4. The AG continues to investigate letters received by authors, but when PA is notified, they release the authors, thereby making sure that authors have no legal recourse and it appears to the AG that they are in fact trying to do business legitimately.

Click to expand...

Does this mean the best way to get out of a contract is to report them to the AG's office?

Turning bad into some good

It does appear to mean just that.

Re: Business law

What this means is that those few writers who were deprived of royalties in the recent Special Discount with Royalties that PA conducted are now the best chance against PA provided they file their complaints against PA with the Maryland AG, the FTC, and the BBB.

Click to expand...

Yeah, but can’t PA just say, “Whoops, sorry about that. We had a new guy handling the e-mails that day. Here, just to show that we’re on the up and up, we’ll send royalty money to those individuals that tried to sign up—even though it’s at our loss. See? We are legitimate. We just made a mistake.”

And they’re out—what? A couple of hundred bucks tops?

PA's response to no royalties on "special offer"

This is the response to a PA author who asked why their purchase of books wasn't included in their royalty statement as the infamous NYT email offer said it would. BTW that email said "The offer expires July 30."

For educational purposes:

"As per paragraph 12 of your contract, royalty checks and statements are issued in February and August. The February statement will reflect sales from August 1 to January 31, and the August statement reflects sales from February 1 to July 31. (the date you ordered isn't the date that we completed the sale)
You will not receive royalties on any purchases that you make yourself, as stated in paragraph 5 of your contract, unless we are running a special that explicitly states otherwise.
Also, the statements will only show sales from that royalty period for which we have been paid. Some retailers and distributors have a grace period of 30, 60, or even 90 days. Any sales not shown on one statement should certainly be included on the next.

End of response

This is interesting because the statement (the date you ordered isn't the date that we completed the sale) is wide open. PA also is implying that this author isn't going to receive royalties on that purchase by included a quote from paragraph 5. PA muddles it up further by saying "unless we are running a special that explicitly states otherwise," which is what the NYT email did. And they contradict their (the date you ordered isn't the date that we completed the sale) by saying that statements only show sales form that royalty period for "which we have been paid." Well if the author put it on his/her credit card, PA got paid within 24 to 48 hours. Did PA breach their own contract?

Dee
www.brianhillanddeepower.com

royalty check

I haven't received a check at all. My contract was cancelled in May so I guess a payment would be an admission of guilt.

It is impossible to find out how many books were printed or sold since they are in cahoots.......but Amazon did report "only one book left" then "three books" then "two books" and then "three books" again.

I had a friend to order the last one..........Wonder how they got new ones in stock. Also, my book is stil for sale on all the online book stores........if they all have some or even one in stock as they say, then some must have been sold. One did tell me that they could fill an order of 20 but they would have to order FROM THE PUBLISHER.

I did write the governor about the AG refusing to take complaints and also about the BBB refusing to take complaints. The IRS was very interested so that may be our best bet. They also have an agency for internet fraud in the FBI.

While incompetence is not against the law, breech of contract and false ads on the internet are.

I am very frustrated trying to make someone listen, and due to my health problems, I had to give it a break but
just because I'm not fighting right now doesn't mean I will give up trying.


Molly Brent

Breach of Contract

Just one thing, breach of contract is NOT against the law. Contracts between individuals are civil matters unless fraud or some other crime is involved. (I just had to point this out, as I just completed Contracts II in law school.):b

re

Mini Revolt part IV is brewing, this time over the royalty/July special issue. The PA board moderators are deleting posts in the www.publishamerica.com/cg...e/5736.htm thread left and right, and word on the street is the posters are getting banned, too.

I did manage to see one post in that thread before it got deleted, which is added below:

trudy61
9/03/2004
07:48:14
RE: Royalty Checks - anyone???
Message:
I received mine yesterday and I'll tell you, I didn't write my book to become rich and famous, but all the hard work and money I have spent to market this book, I feel has been wasted. I am so freakin upset you wouldn't believe.
Trudy
www.geocities.com/tosaveone/home.html

Another post, which was at www.publishamerica.com/cg...e/5767.htm got deleted already. It stated:

Alla
9/03/2004
12:23:57
Subject: Royalty Checks
Message:
I received my royalty check yesterday. It shows that I sold 14 books. I know for a fact that it's not correct. I ordered 50 copies during that promo they ran in July. The author copies sold were supposed to count towards the August royalties. I also know that at least 100 copies were purchased by friends and relatives in June. Between BN.con and Amazon my rank went down over two million in July.
I am really frustrated, since I didn't even get a response to the email I send to royalties department. Can someone advise me on how I can find out the actual number of copies sold through BN.com and Amazon.

I really need to get back to work. g

books

I called Ingram's info line. They now have 6 books on hand that they did not have on hand last time I called.

They have also sold 13 books this year, which is 3 more than when I called last time. The sold 20 last year.

My royalty statement from last year says they sold 19 at a discount and 13 at reg price.

My contract was cancelled in May.

Molly

book sales

I forgot. The previous date I checked with them was on 8/14........


Molly

Re: Royalties

One more before the thread and messages are gone:
www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/5736.htm


Message:
My statement shows 14 copies sold and that's way off. I have send them two emails already and spoke to a woman, who told me that I have to wait 5-10 days for them to reply. Not only were the promo copies not included, but I know that my friends and relatives bought at least 100 copies, not to mention BN.com and Amazon. Saying that I am livid is an understatement.

Does anyone know, if there is a way to find out the number of copies sold. I know there are services, how can someone find one.

Just want to find the answer to what might have happened.

Re: Royalties

Report them to the IRS because you suspect they are cooking the books. Just give them what you know. If enough individuals report similar circumstances, PA stands a good chance of being investigated.

Also report the information to the FTC and to the Maryland Attorney General. When those all receive enough complaints, they'll have little recourse but to take action.

One more thing that just occurred to me. If PA is selling your book and they don't have a contract with you, they're in violation of copyright. Report them to their ISP and ask that their website be blocked until they remove your work from their store and stop selling it elsewhere since they are the ones causing it to be sold at those other online locations.

Re: Molly's books still being sold

Molly, you need to contact Ingrams and send them a copy of the canceled contract and let them know that the book is not available to be printed any more with the PA label, or else they will keep fulfilling orders and paying PA.

Re: UUNET Technology - ISP

Publish America seems to be up on UUNET, contact information below:

address: UUNET Technologies, Inc.
22001 Loudoun County Parkway
Ashburn, VA 20147
e-mail: [email protected]

person: Chris P. Ross
address: UUNET Technologies, Inc.
phone: +1 703 206 5600
fax-no: +1 703 206 5601
e-mail: [email protected]
e-mail: [email protected]

PUBLISHAMERICA.COM


63.89.87.3
Record Type: IP Address
UUNET Technologies, Inc. UUNET63 (NET-63-64-0-0-1)
63.64.0.0 - 63.127.255.255
Washington Publishing UU-63-89-87 (NET-63-89-87-0-1)
63.89.87.0 - 63.89.87.255

book sales

PA removed my book immediately.

Amazon refused to remove it and has ordered since the contract was cancelled.

B & N removed it. All the others say they must be notified by the publisher. I sent them a copy of an e mail from PA saying the contract was cancelled but they continue to sell it. PA says is not their problem and they notified the online book stores. However, I have e mails from the online book stores saying they have not been notified.

If PA is reading this, it is going to be your problem.

Ingram and Lightning refuse to give me any info "because of my problems with PA" but they have assured me that they have me removed and my book is NOT being sold or printed.....Yeah right.

Wonder how Ingram has 6 on hand today that they didn't have last month and they sold 3 more than when I checked a month ago.

Guess they forgot to take me off the info line.....that will be done tomorrow probably. Even if the online book stores have what they say they have in stock, I've sold a lot more books than reported......

The numbers I reported were from Ingram. The number is
1 615 213 6803 and you put in your ISBN and you get a recorded message. I don't know how to check any others.

BTW, I am under a gag order but since they were guilty of breach of the agreement, that means I don't have to abide by it.

Also on the contract thing........Fraud most frequently
arises when some sort of contractual situation is involved.......like deliberate misrepresentation.

Molly

One more questioning where the sales all went

www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/5736.htmMessage:
OK here it is everyone I recieved my Royalty check, and it was $1.72 one dollar, and seventy two cents for two book sales. So I emailed the support team as I personally had sold so many books at each of my booksignings.
My friends are the managers at these stores,
as well as to many of my husbands friends who are major artist here in Nashville, and they too had bought my books, so the two sales didn't add up right.
There was 12 books sold at just one major bookstore, and 4 ladies who bought my book for each of their children, as I had signed them, to another artist who bought two books, so that she could take them back to NYork with her for her daughters.
And there were lots more, that I had signed for our friend's band members too, as they had all told me, how much they loved my book, so again I was confussed when I got the listing of only two book sales. When all of my books had all been sold in that same month, at my booksignings.
I did tell our support team, that I'm not looking at becoming rich, but a dollar seventy two really cracked my husband, and I up. We both had this look of what's up LOL!
My husband owns a publishing company for the music industry here, so yes he wanted me to ask what happened. I'm sure there's an answer, but again I haven't recieved it yet.
Maybe the sales will be on my next Royalty check, but we have so many people in our office, who helps me keep tabs on my book sales for me, as I'm on tour singing at shows alot.
And they too are wanting to know why my Royalty check only showed two book sales, when all of our friends, who were at our shows, to my book signings, and had purchased my books, there was way over two sold.
So I hope to get their reply soon, and find out what happened.
Again I wasn't complaining to them, but I just wanted to know where the other book sales went???

Have a good day, and this was my experiounce so far to what I recieved, hope it helps you out.

PA Royalties

Well, it's that time of the year again.... What fun!

I haven't received a check yet...which is interesting since I ordered my book AFTER PA told me it was no longer available. I won't say how many copies I ordered, but there were several. I have the receipts and am waiting patiently to see if PA tries to stiff me.

Nancy
www.nancymehlbooks.com

Re: Business law

I guess I wasn't paying attention 6 months ago. Was there similar backlash? This time around it seems a bit more severe than I expected.

Re: PA's response to no royalties on "special offer&quo

there was a certain amount of complaining, but quickly tamped down by HB and a lot of the newer authors - the same ones that are now discovering the truth, in a quirky twist of fate.

HB should be showing up any time now along with a few others to denounce all who question their "art" and demand that they just put their noses back to the grindstone and stop harassing those poor PA people - after all, they GAVE you the chance to be published. How dare you ask for such things as an answer back on your dismal royalties to a company to which you OWE so much...

so to speak.

I find it rather humorous that one of the longest posts to date is from one of the authors who was one of PA's biggest supporters a few weeks ago - guess the scales fell off her eyes darned fast when she got that check, eh?

Authors - DEMAND accountability! There is NO WAY that PA is that far behind on getting your sales counted up. They'll feed you comments about how it takes a while for sales to be counted up and the usual dribble, but there is NO WAY that they can - the bookstore manager paid PA for those ten or twenty books that you had him/her order and since there are NO RETURNS there's nothing more complicated than passing on the money to PA. Nada. Zilch.

Get your money now and get the heck out of Dodge!

'nuff said.

Re: PA's royalty statements and a small reality

One more off the PA MB:

"I receieved my whole $0.96 1 book which i know better, i have called PA and left a message, waiting for responce. I don't like how this looks.!! ."

Those PA authors lurking might like to know that:

1. Lighting Source will not tell you how many of your books they have printed, they send your inquiry to PA and PA writes back to check your statement in a rather hostile email (I have seen two examples of that email - both almost identical)

2. You can get some idea of how many books have been sold by checking the Ingrams sales to date number off their automated line. You can call Ingram’s automated stock status system hotline 24 hours a day (615/213-6803). Follow the prompts and have your book's ISBN handy as that is going to be needed to check with. Now there is a caveat to this, Amazon does not go through Ingram - they go direct to LS so their booksales will not be reflected in this. Also Barnes and Noble switched over to ordering direct from LS the first part of this year for books with more then a little activity, so some of their books will not be in that number as well. If libraries or others have ordered through Baker and Taylor, or direct from PA those books will not be in that number either.

3. The Ingram sales numbers will reflect sales by the "other" booksellers on Amazon and B&N (marketplace), Indie's such as Powell's and BAMM, and the beginning of the year B&N sales. If the majority of your books were sold directly through PA or off Amazon then you need to calculate what percent the Ingram number represents and solve for an estimate of total booksales. For example, let's say that 90% of your books were NOT sold through Ingram's distribution service, if Ingram's shows 10 sold therefore 10 divided by (1.00 - .9) equals 100 and that would be about the total sales of your book. The few statements I have seen show the PA reported total sales being equal to 95% - 105% of the Ingram sales numbers which makes no sense unless NO books were sold through PA or Amazon and B&N.

4. If your PA statement and Ingram numbers do not make sense together, then you need to follow Dave's advice above.

Good luck everyone, the rumblings over statements this time are much louder on the public board then six months ago. I shudder to think what the comments on the private board are.

Re: PA's response to no royalties on "special offer&amp

PA has to be using either a database or electronic spreadsheets to keep track of sales because we know they're not going to hire an army of accountants to count out individual receipts that someone hand wrote in order to print out the royalty statements. So the odds favor them using one of the two with only a few clerks doing the work. They have no excuse for being late with any royalties. Also, since they'd have to be using electronic means to track sales, there's no excuse for failing to pay the proper amount of royalty payments.

The only thing they're doing that really can't be complained about is sending out the checks on the last possible date. Many companies do that so that the money will earn as much interest for the company as possible before it leaves their bank account. This, by the way, gives another reason to believe that they're using an electronic program to generate the checks since it would be difficult to manually produce that many in one day.

One more place to contact would be the Writers Guild. I don't have the website URL or address handy at the moment, but it's listed in Organizations at P&E.

Another idea just occurred to me. Send a complaint to any organizations that PA claims to have membership with.

Re: Royalty check thread gone

PA must have a board moderator working this holiday week-end, the long thread has evaporated.

complaints

If anybody has the snail mail addresses of the agencies or people in charge who should receive complaints, I'd appreciate having them. Please include the name of the person in charge if you have it.

I am going to include some e mails and web pages with the lies high lighted.

Since my sight is not great right now, I may furnish the info to an attorney and ask him to write them for me but he will need the names and addresses of everybody.

My primary complaint is not about a royalty check. It is that they are still printing and selling my book without a contract.

Thanks, Molly

Re: book sales

I wonder if Mr. M is feeling the noose tightening. Might he have socked away enough bucks to be property-hunting in Barbados or some other extradition-free tax haven?

Re: book sales

<I wonder if Mr. M is feeling the noose tightening. Might he have socked away enough bucks to be property-hunting in Barbados or some other extradition-free tax haven?>

How about the property in Salamanca (Spain)? Would that qualify?