Question on Multilingualism

trumancoyote · Dec 15, 2006

I am having a problem here with language, and I can't say for sure whether what I'm experiencing is the bad result of something good, or the bad result of something bad.

My Chinese has improved rather rapidly since I moved here, but for the past week it seems to have devolved into this murky ghoulash of Chinese-English. Sometimes, without even realizing it, I'll begin using English in the middle of a Chinese sentence, and I don't know if this is because I'm tired or because the boundary between the two languages is dissolving in my brain. If it's indeed true that Chinese and English are beginning to mingle in my head, it's again hard for me to say whether or not that is a good phenomenon.

Is that usual, not being able to keep two languages separate in your head?

Have any other bi- or tri- or what-have-you-linguals out there experienced this same thing? Will it pass, or am I doomed?

LloydBrown · Dec 15, 2006

So, what you're saying is that you can understand all of Firefly? That's awesome.

I have some high school education in a couple of languages, but I never got to the fluent speaking part. I have switched from Spanish to French in the middle of a sentence, though. Rarely vice-versa.

robeiae · Dec 15, 2006

Sometimes I think in Latin. And Hittite.

poetinahat · Dec 15, 2006

I hear it's been happening with Rosie O'Donnell lately too, but with less fortunate results. You could take her any day, suga.

aadams73 · Dec 15, 2006

trumancoyote said:
My Chinese has improved rather rapidly since I moved here, but for the past week it seems to have devolved into this murky ghoulash of Chinese-English. Sometimes, without even realizing it, I'll begin using English in the middle of a Chinese sentence, and I don't know if this is because I'm tired or because the boundary between the two languages is dissolving in my brain. If it's indeed true that Chinese and English are beginning to mingle in my head, it's again hard for me to say whether or not that is a good phenomenon.

Is that usual, not being able to keep two languages separate in your head?

Have any other bi- or tri- or what-have-you-linguals out there experienced this same thing? Will it pass, or am I doomed?

I had this problem big-time when I moved from Greece back to Australia. I'd be thinking one thing, then when I'd speak to someone I'd realize the wrong language had popped out.

So, yeah, in my experience it's normal.

poetinahat · Dec 15, 2006

aadams73 said:
So, yeah, in my experience it's normal.

In other words, truman, you're screwed.

aadams73 · Dec 15, 2006

poetinahat said:
In other words, truman, you're screwed.

There's a "me so horny, me love you long time" joke in here somewhere. But that would be very very wrong.

Deleted member 42 · Dec 15, 2006

That's a known and well-studied thing Truman. You will be sort of disoriented a few weeks as your brain re-routes stuff. You may have some very odd dreams as well, but yeah, it's normal.

Kate Thornton · Dec 15, 2006

I used to speak German almost fluently and Korean up to a point. Now I mix them up when trying to speak as I have not used either language for a long time.

I think it's a pretty common thing.

robeiae · Dec 15, 2006

Medievalist said:
You will be sort of disoriented a few weeks

??
I'd check that time-frame.

NeuroFizz · Dec 15, 2006

Perhaps you're getting comfortable with the new langauge and you're doing what native speakers do--talk on autopilot. The problem could be your relaxation allows the mixing. In other words, your autopilot is not yet fully language shifted. You may need to concentrate to keep out of autopilot until you are fully shifted!!!!

It's good to see you, Tru! :TheWave:

maestrowork · Dec 15, 2006

As a Chinese who learned to speak English as a second language while living in the United States, I can tell you it's very normal. As you are thinking more natively in the foreign language, you will probably find yourself mingling the two languages, as you do now, because you're trying to reconcile them in your brain.

In the future, however, you will find that you will be able to think and speak in one language at a time; but it will take some time. I'd been speaking English for years before my brain finally switched over. Now I think only in English when I speak English; I think in Chinese (mingling with English) when I speak Chinese: I've reversed my languages.

On the other hand, you are not odd. Many Chinese, especially people from Hong Kong, mix their languages: they always use English words in their speech even though they speak mostly in Chinese. The funny thing is, they would slightly change the pronunciation of the English word to make it sound Engrish, even though they could say the English word perfectly. For example, when saying the word "valley," which they can pronounce perfectly in English, they would say "Wah Lee" instead. It is a very interesting phenomenon.

dclary · Dec 15, 2006

Much like Walter Koenig is required to say "Wessel" instead of "Vessel" for the rest of his life.

This has been throwaway post #1 of 4. Friday, 12/15.

Serenity · Dec 15, 2006

I agree with everyone else here. It is normal, your brain is simply processing the two languages and you're in a transition period, really. It's an interesting phenomena that I also experienced when I was in Mexico for several months. For a time, my spanish turned into spanglish and it amused my friends there to no end.

It's not you 'losing' the language, trust me.

Foinah · Dec 15, 2006

I agree. It's normal.
I speak Spanish, Japanese, a smattering of French and Italian, and enough Irish from my youth to get me booze, food, the toilet and a bit of the old bouncy, and insult an egregious eeedjit now and then.

I occasionally mix my Japanese and Spanish together - that's an interesting combo!

Just relax and go with it and your brain will settle in.

trumancoyote · Dec 16, 2006

So, what you're saying is that you can understand all of Firefly? That's awesome.

No. Their accents are absolutely terrible. I catch the words 'asshole' and 'fucking' every now and then, but for the most part they're fairly difficult to understand. I'd use a smiley here, but I'm not allowed to.

That's a known and well-studied thing Truman. You will be sort of disoriented a few weeks as your brain re-routes stuff. You may have some very odd dreams as well, but yeah, it's normal.

Interesting. Do you have any resources handy that I might be able to take a look at?

On the other hand, you are not odd. Many Chinese, especially people from Hong Kong, mix their languages: they always use English words in their speech even though they speak mostly in Chinese. The funny thing is, they would slightly change the pronunciation of the English word to make it sound Engrish, even though they could say the English word perfectly. For example, when saying the word "valley," which they can pronounce perfectly in English, they would say "Wah Lee" instead. It is a very interesting phenomenon.

I noticed that while I was in Hong Kong. It's fairly interesting, to say the least. I have actually found myself doing the same thing on occassion because it's difficult to switch very quickly from the parts of your mouth required to speak Chinese to the parts required for English. That, and when I'm teaching my students they understand some concept and words better when they're being taught in broken English; although I'm heatedly averse to encouraging their bad grammatical and pronunciatory habits, sometimes it's necessary if you want them to actually understand what's being said.

Steve Lenaghan · Dec 16, 2006

I grew up in Quebec and the best advice I had was to think in the language you are using. It takes a bit of getting used to but it's easier than composing a sentence in your head and translating it. I tried learning Inuktituk on Baffin Island but the language has more dialects that Baskin Robins has... An ex spoke seven Baltic region languages, sometimes all at once. The thing I have noticed is that technical words are not very translatable. Then you have my favorite Fr-english. "?Avez vous un headlight"

Deleted member 42 · Dec 16, 2006

trumancoyote said:
Interesting. Do you have any resources handy that I might be able to take a look at?

Google "second language acquistion." You see a lot of stuff about the stages a learner goes through. Keep in mind that you're an adult learner so don't worry about the stages a teen goes through. They're different. Hormones and what not.

Tiger · Dec 16, 2006

I noticed that even little kids who're probably not even fully aware that they're bilingual, will spend a few seconds shifting gears when you switch up on them.

Remember interpreting for a Japanese boss to an American guy I had on the telephone: "...Sir.... Sir? I'm sorry, I don't understand Japanese." Well, I was tired.

Scarlett_156 · Dec 16, 2006

When I'm around Spanish-speaking people my speech and thoughts will pick up words and phrases, but I'll seldom utter a complete sentence in Spanish. This is particularly true when I'm in south New Mexico or Texas (or Ciudad de Juarez). One thing you will notice in places that are close to the border on either side is that Spanish-speaking and English-speaking people will stick to their own language most of the time but they can understand each other nevertheless. It's a strange experience when one is in a place such as, for instance, K-Mart with the clerk at the checkout stand speaking English to people who are speaking Spanish, and each understands the other as though they were both speaking the same language.

writerterri · Dec 16, 2006

Um, Zach. Can you like come in here and say :hi:

, and give us all a :Hug2:

and a

or at least

and

to announce your back in OP for a quick question, because I've really missed you :e2cry:

? Is it too much to ask, dork?

Just in case I missed your other entrance...

:hooray:

It's you, it's really, really you!

How are you? :e2kissy:

How'd that one get in there?

PS. I have that problem when I speak engrish too. Ray brings that fiendish Chinese girl out of me. Especially since I read his book. :e2brows:

PrettySpecialGal · Dec 17, 2006

Scarlett_156 said:
When I'm around Spanish-speaking people my speech and thoughts will pick up words and phrases, but I'll seldom utter a complete sentence in Spanish. This is particularly true when I'm in south New Mexico or Texas (or Ciudad de Juarez). One thing you will notice in places that are close to the border on either side is that Spanish-speaking and English-speaking people will stick to their own language most of the time but they can understand each other nevertheless. It's a strange experience when one is in a place such as, for instance, K-Mart with the clerk at the checkout stand speaking English to people who are speaking Spanish, and each understands the other as though they were both speaking the same language.

this happened to me when I taught at a primarily spanish-speaking school. The parents of my students would speak to me in spanish and I would speak english or spanglish back to them and we all got along nicely.

The whole mixing up thing happens to me all the time- between spanish, english and sign. The sign part is a little tricky, though- it' mainly a grammar thing- or I can see one sign and I use its meaning when I speak- somehow the syntax gets mixed up. IT hasn't happened in a while-- b/c I'm not using the spanish or sign nearly as much as I have in the past.

Truman- I agree with everyone here- you seem to be....ahem....normal-- well, in regards to the language mixing, of course.

Question on Multilingualism

My Name is Sweet Thing

Touch and go

Numbers are beautiful

A Work in Progress

Numbers are beautiful

A Work in Progress

Deleted member 42

Still Happy to be Here. Or Anywhere

Touch and go

The grad students did it

Fear the Death Ray

Unabashed Mercenary

NCIS...

Smoking Monkey Smart Arse

My Name is Sweet Thing

Packing and moving out, bye!

Deleted member 42

AKA: "Gums of Steel"

asdf

It's a dorky day!

roll, roll, roll in ze hay