Ellora's Cave Publishing, Inc.

I wouldn't touch them now with a ten-foot pole.

Seems like most people are trying to get their books BACK from EC, not signing new books up.

That said, I assume that if the MS is still available 14 months later, you haven't had luck selling it elsewhere. So is EC better than self-pubbing or trunking your novel?

Honestly, I'd say no. We've heard that their editing may or may not exist; we've seen that their covers are sloppy at best; and we've seen that their promo seems to be directed at kitsch items rather than books. Having their name on your book might have meant something in the past, but now? I don't think so.

At least if you self-pub or trunk the book you retain control over it. If you decide you want to pull it or rewrite it or whatever, you have that option. If you publish with EC, the option is gone, in exchange for nothing much of value.

Just my opinions, obviously, but backed up by a lot of other people's opinions.

My admittedly flip answer: 'No.' And probably 'Run'. As long as Tina Engler's in control of EC I have the horrible feeling it will resemble a clown car on fire. My opinions have been shaped by many other authors', editors', and artists' experiences...many well before the infamous Dear Author fiasco of last year.

And at 14 months post-submission, I'd dock even a good erotic romance publisher for losing track of its slush pile that badly.

I personally would never publish another thing with them again ever even if they were the last publisher on earth.

Seems like most people are trying to get their books BACK from EC, not signing new books up.

That said, I assume that if the MS is still available 14 months later, you haven't had luck selling it elsewhere. So is EC better than self-pubbing or trunking your novel?

Honestly, I'd say no. We've heard that their editing may or may not exist; we've seen that their covers are sloppy at best; and we've seen that their promo seems to be directed at kitsch items rather than books. Having their name on your book might have meant something in the past, but now? I don't think so.

These are good points. I sent EC the first version of the first book I ever wrote. Since then it's gone through two rounds of betas/revisions (ALMOST sold to Lyrical- the aquisition team said no, darn it) and I got a revise and resubmit on it from another well respected publisher- who asked for an exclusive resubmit. I put the ms aside for a good 6 mo. to percolate while I wrote something else and now I went back to it, revised AGAIN and was about to resubmit this sparkly new version that I think will do the trick, when I got that email. It threw me for a loop.

I used to adore EC. Adore them. I originally wrote this book for them. Alot of the authors I admire started with them. But, I haven't bought a single book from them since they sued Jane. I contributed to Jane's defense fund! How can I go with a publisher I am personally boycotting? Plus, yes, like everyone else I've seen the less than professional online behavior of Tina Engler....


And yes, I wonder if I could get better editing/cover just doing it myself. AND, there's so much ill will towards them right now, so many industry people and reviewers boycotting them....I wonder if right now, having the EC imprint on a book is a detriment towards people purchasing that book?

But, this is still a hard call for me. Because, no one wants EC to fail, right?

Of course I'm sending my ms to the publisher that asked for the resubmit and I'm praying it will sell to them and I'm good to go. But you know how subbing is- they could easily say no thanks. Guess at that point I'd have to weight EC vs. self pub. My sub genre does well as self pub....

Well, actually there's probably a few more pubs I could send my ms to, but at this point I'm getting anstsy because the process seems to take an eternity. So yeah, if this resubmit doesn't work, I'll most likely self pub - unless something strange and unforseen happens (like I get an agent! Or EC drops their suit of Jane, and Tina Engler and gets bought by a bigger publisher!).

VoireyLinger said:

This might need its own thread, but this happened.

http://betonblackbooks.com/

Click to expand...

Um, yeah, sure. PAY HER to not publish your books? I...I just....huh?

After a few months of regular checks, a few authors (including me) are reporting no check yet this month on Twitter's #notchilled.

At RT Booklovers Convention this week, one of the cover models was selling copies of his autobiography. I've met him peripherally over the years I've attended and he seems like a pretty decent guy (I've met many of them and they've all been really great) but I was hesitant to buy his book since it's published by EC. Not because I'm boycotting them or anything but I seriously questioned if I, or everybody else, for all that matters, bought it, would he see any royalties?

A fair question, Ben. I ache to see this, because I have a lot of friends who are EC authors. Some have asked me not to buy their EC books until they get the rights back. Others, especially recently-published authors, I'm hesitant to buy. I just don't think they'll see any money from those sales.

I haven't gotten my cheque yet this month, but it's only about a week late. For EC, that's barely a blip.

I've been getting mine the first week of the month for three months running, which is why I'm irritable. CERTAINLY nothing like what it was for other people who've been dealing with this longer, but hey, I figure it's worth putting the information out there, all the same. Especially when people are still wondering if they should submit to them.

No, it's very good information to have. I'm in Canada, so it always takes longer to get here. If you haven't received yours yet, it'll probably be a lot longer before I get mine.

I didn't mean you shouldn't have posted, just meant I hadn't noticed it myself yet!

I received a check yesterday, purportedly for January's royalties.

<3 Sorry if I was quick off the block; it's kind of a hellish weak in my personal life, and this delay is NOT helping. <3

ETA at 4pmish; got a check in the mail today. Huzzah. I think I can hit the dollar menu this time!

They have a triple threat anthology call up on the Erotica Readers and Writers Association site. I cringe a little every time I see it. Really, really glad I found this AW thread last year before I started subbing.

I have to be careful what I say because I'm an EC author, and they are still holding a few books of mine. Last year I decided to sever my connection with them for purely commercial reasons. according to my statements, my books there just weren't selling. At the time I thought the high cover price was at fault, and the shift in the market that redefined what was and was not erotic. Now I'm not so sure. I got a lot of emails from readers who asked me which of the books on my website were EC, because they wanted to boycott the company. Since I've taken all EC pubbed books off my site, my sales for my other books have gone up!
We occasionally get nonsensical emails from the management, but we really don't know any more than anyone else. The DA court case is, as far as we're concerned, a sideline. These problems were emerging long before that happened, and many of us put our requests for reversion in before the article went up. It didn't help us, it just meant that management closed ranks and refused to talk to us except in official emails. When both my editors were fired, I was out.
I plan to self-pub the books I've managed to get back starting later in the year. The clown car will have to burn without me.

Good luck, Lynne (and all other EC authors fighting the good fight.)

An absolute debacle, but the dignity and courage shown by authors has been pretty inspirational.

I hope you all manage to get your rights back and republish with great success.

Lynne, wishing you the best in the path you choose, and many, many sales.

It took me a while to decide to post this, but what the heck:

I went to the EC spotlight at the RT Booklovers convention. What follows are my impressions and what I remember of the event (and my memory isn't perfect).

Overall, I was not left with the impression of a professional company, especially when compared to other publisher spotlights I've been to at this and last year's RT. The spotlight, to me, felt slap-dash and not put together.

The other publisher spotlights I've been to included multimedia about the publisher, their imprints, their strengths, some of their titles, what they were interested in, what they did to support authors, etc. There was really none of that kind of organized presentation at the EC spotlight

The EC person running the spotlight was someone who wore "many hats," including being an EC author, events coordinator, and their media person (a new position, because I believe they let the old one go), but she didn't seem to know details like royalty rates and what manuscript lengths EC publishes at. One of the EC cover models/author was also there, and *he* knew those details, so the info was presented.

The things I remember were:

EC will be at BEA and will also be selling a calendar (I'm guessing of their cover models) for $20 bucks there.
Rolling Stone (I believe) will be interviewing or has interviewed Jaid Black.
They (I don't know if they is EC or someone else) are making a documentary about EC.
There won't be a Romanticon this year, but there will be one in 2016.
EC fired all its editors and hired new ones. (pretty much a direct quote, that)
They're "relaxing their house style" to keep more of the author's voice, so if it's not technically incorrect, it's correct.
They're looking for secret baby romances.
They're actively acquiring manuscripts.
They did have some swag and gave away two bottles of EC-branded wine.

Part of the spotlight was spent poo-pooing self-publishing and advances from larger publishers.

If I hadn't known of all the issues with EC before I walked in, I would have been meh about them and assumed that they were a small start-up romance press that didn't have that much of a clue, since even when I was a noob writer, I did my homework.

As it was, knowing what I know and being where I am, I was shaking my head.

I wish EC the best of luck, but to me, they certainly didn't put their best foot forward at that spotlight.

(I will say, though, all the cover models I met were very nice, together, and professional folks. The cover model helping the EC representative kind of saved her bacon several times, IMO.)

I went to the spotlight with Amergina, and her description is spot-on. It was the kind of presentation I would've expected from a publisher that was just getting started, still finding its footing, and could be forgiven for not quite knowing their lines. I don't even recall seeing any books. Swag, yes. Wine, yes. Cover flats, yes. But no books.

The lack of authors was also disconcerting. The lack of staff members was weird. No authors? No editors? No one who actively read/worked with submissions?

Also, as Amergina pointed out, there was a fair amount of discussion about why self-pubbing or advance-paying publishers were bad, essentially being summarized as "If you work with EC, you avoid all of THAT."

All in all, it was a very strange presentation, and not one that inspired any faith in EC.

My mind boggles. No, really, I can't comprehend this.

1. EC is not new, they're one of the *founding presses of the erotic romance field*. No excuse there.

2. Self publishing is a Thing, now. Get used to it, because all of the other publishers have had to address it. The way they handle it is usually by showing prospective authors what the publisher will do for author support.

3. And advances. Those are worth going after, both as an income source and a sign the publisher is committed to supporting the book(s). I'm not talking about the little $100 to $500 token advances that most digital erotic romance houses offer, but the $6K to $20K advances offered by the bigger imprints. Those still happen. I see them listed in PW all the time. For EC to downplay advance-paying publishers is nothing but sour-grapes, and it shows.

4. Given the sheer costs of membership, getting there, and staying there, the attendees at RT are among the most dedicated and professional authors and/or publishing professionals in the industry...or if they're newbies, they've got money to burn. Either way, the people there stood a better statistical chance of having 'done their homework' than the average small-time local convention attendee or writers' group member. Thus, publishers' presentations needed to be honed and professional.

I'd hoped that EC would have put on a good presentation...but this just reads 'more of the same'. (I've heard more scathing reviews from two other people who were in the audience, but until they decide to speak up, I can't give more detail.)

I loved EC just a few years ago. They inspired me to get into writing erotic romance, and I have a lot of friends who are (ex)EC authors. Now I think any new author still signing with them has got to be living under a rock, or stupidly hopeful.

And if they had a presence at the RT FAN-tastic Day Party on Saturday night beyond a handful of bookmarks and other crap swag tossed onto a tallboy table like nobody really cared at the front of the conference room, I didn't see it. The cover model selling his book I'd mentioned above was at the Indie and Self-Pub session on Sunday.

BenPanced said:

And if they had a presence at the RT FAN-tastic Day Party on Saturday night beyond a handful of bookmarks and other crap swag tossed onto a tallboy table like nobody really cared at the front of the conference room, I didn't see it. The cover model selling his book I'd mentioned above was at the Indie and Self-Pub session on Sunday.

Click to expand...

I didn't even see any swag. I saw several of their cover models, but literally no EC presence outside of their publisher spotlight.

I will be very curious to hear how things go at BEA.