EDIT: how funny that a. i ended up not using any of this in my wip and b. i've noticed an extreme decline in the usage of this kind of chatspeak! this thread was started in vain i'm very sorry
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What say you: chatspeak
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Aww, a manatee that flatters with little hearts. Now that's cute.
I've seen books with txt speak, but there's a limit. There's a limit because people don't want to read a book consisting of that - it's hard to parse and there's no purpose to it.
The latter point is important to part of what I quoted above. I could see that having characters texting could be important to show their lifestyles, but saying they have to text in some particular, super (pardon me, but I text in mostly full words because u is two whole characters shorter than you, b is one character shorter than be, etc., and the way you have it there irks no end, heh.) stoopid-looking text to show how comfortable people are or how they're friendly rather than romantic or anything else like that simply doesn't work.
All that stuff is shown by WHAT people say, not whether they say it in really abbreviated texting or full words or French or ASL.
Not to mention, the part I think you didn't think of. You'd have to explain to the readers somehow, as the potential readers of your book are, you hope, everyone, not just your friends, that texting one way means X while the other way means Y. I wouldn't have any way of knowing that, because I'm not in your group of friends. You say yourself that it's very fragmented among even people you know as to how people text and what it means to them. So think about that if you used this in some giant way in a story you'd have to first have a long explanation of what it all meant, in detail. You don't want to do that.
Try to keep a balance between *being authentic* and *being sooo authentic that it's a pain in the ass to read and half your readers have no clue wtf is going on.* What's popular in chatspeak might not be popular in a few years. For example, back in the 90's words like 'dope,' 'ill,' 'fresh' and 'bad' used to mean things like 'cool' and 'awesome.' Nowadays, people will look at you funny if you try to use those words to mean those things.
Yeah my main concern would be how fast it will sound dated. The abbreviations also vary based on region.
It's also kind of like any slang. Dropping a bit here or there works for characterization, but anything not painfully obvious is going to isolate some readers. Remember not everyone reading YA is an American teenager.
I'd also suggest figuring out ways to convey the idea with actual words rather than spelling. It's like people who use phonetic spelling to show accents when they could easily use sentence structure and phrasing (which, again, would isolate less readers.)
I have some texts in a few MS's and they definitely say thing like "what the fuck" and "I don't even know" but it's spelled out, even though it might not be IRL.
It's also kind of like any slang. Dropping a bit here or there works for characterization, but anything not painfully obvious is going to isolate some readers. Remember not everyone reading YA is an American teenager.
I'd also suggest figuring out ways to convey the idea with actual words rather than spelling. It's like people who use phonetic spelling to show accents when they could easily use sentence structure and phrasing (which, again, would isolate less readers.)
I have some texts in a few MS's and they definitely say thing like "what the fuck" and "I don't even know" but it's spelled out, even though it might not be IRL.
Dope and fresh are actually coming back except for dope has a double meaning which is "cool" and "weed." But yeah that's another thing I was worried about like I'm sure it's gonna go out of style because let's be real here it's lame and most of it stemmed from teenagers being assholes and making fun of people who did use them and I just ahhhhh. I feel like it's so important but it's something so insignificant that changes all the time.
cornflake, the manatee likes you a lot because he doesn't get many compliments.
Thank you so much for that response. Just to clarify, which I should've earlier, it's not like they're texting each other allllll the time, or I mean they are but I don't write all of it. There are no super long text conversations, I guess they're just scattered about the wip wherever "necessary." Quotes around necessary because I have a thing for texting in YA and I probably include it more than necessary.
I mean, it is a big thing for them. In a perfect world they wouldn't care how things are said but the things that are said, but for them and for a lot of people at this age anyway, in my experiences, it is a big step for someone you have a crush on to go from casual texts like "Hi how are you, lovely
" to "hi love omg how the f*ck are u" because, I don't know, you're not as afraid of the thing that I'm afraid of, which is the other person (in my case, readers) thinking you're lame or stupid or immature. So that's what I'm trying to convey but at the same time I know it's like really specific and although a lot of people would understand it, a lot also wouldn't. And I also know I could just tone it down and be done with it, so I'm kind of shooting myself in the foot anyway. The part I'm struggling with is convincing myself and about things like how much to stop and things like that.
But what I'm getting is I should probably just tone it down. As much as it'll hurt my heart to part with it, I probably do not need to use the abbreviation for j*sus f*cking c*rist in order to make my MC feel comfortable.
Man chatspeak is a problem for me. So much more than it should be. In one wip it got so bad I made my MC just not allowed to have a phone for currently unexplained reasons. I think it's because I'm living the High School Life right now where how you type is like... an identifier and people will pick up things from you (which is actually cute) and bleh, more complicated than it should be.Thanks so much. I'm having a lot of trouble, and I'm dumb and don't know how to deal with it.
This is also a good point and "how fast it will be dated" is one of my biggest problems. I'm not really worried about the "people only talk like this in certain areas" thing though because it's difficult to explain but this is an Internet Thing that is everywhere right now and definitely not just the US. But like you said, "right now" isn't "three years from now" and just ugh that's what I'm worried about next to the relationship thing.
Thanks so much.
I think I'm just trying way too hard to be authentic. I mean it's fiction for a reason right.
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Heh, everyone feels dumb about stuff that's hard to explain, 'tis life. That you do is actually a good sign. People who do not are less likely to 'get it' as it were. Google the Dunning-Kruger effect for a handy-dandy explanation of why thinking you're dumb is actually a sign you're probably not dumb.
This is what I was talking about - and what the other posters brought up as well.
To me, and I daresay to the teens I know pretty well (and I know a decent bunch), 'Hi, how are you, lovely' is much more serious than 'omg how the fuck r u?' The latter is much more casual among teens, and everyone else, I know. The things specific to your group or region really aren't as ubiquitous as you may think. I know teens who are quite popular and involved and etc., who refuse to type in text speak at all because they think it's just dopey. Also know plenty who do, just saying it's not a universal at all.
Also, the asterisk thing isn't text speak I've ever run into; I've only ever seen that employed places where cursing is frowned upon, like Christian-based message boards or what have you. I dunno anyone at all, kids or adults, who asterisks curse words.
Hence, if you include this stuff to mean certain things like casual to serious, you'd have to include the explanation that it does, because it's simply not going to be intuitive to the wider population. Also, as noted above, it'll be obsolete before you know it.
Just btw, dope has meant weed for like 50 years or longer; it makes one dopey, see.
Also, who doesn't love manatees? They're so happy and huggy and cute.
This is what I was talking about - and what the other posters brought up as well.
To me, and I daresay to the teens I know pretty well (and I know a decent bunch), 'Hi, how are you, lovely' is much more serious than 'omg how the fuck r u?' The latter is much more casual among teens, and everyone else, I know. The things specific to your group or region really aren't as ubiquitous as you may think. I know teens who are quite popular and involved and etc., who refuse to type in text speak at all because they think it's just dopey. Also know plenty who do, just saying it's not a universal at all.
Also, the asterisk thing isn't text speak I've ever run into; I've only ever seen that employed places where cursing is frowned upon, like Christian-based message boards or what have you. I dunno anyone at all, kids or adults, who asterisks curse words.
Hence, if you include this stuff to mean certain things like casual to serious, you'd have to include the explanation that it does, because it's simply not going to be intuitive to the wider population. Also, as noted above, it'll be obsolete before you know it.
Just btw, dope has meant weed for like 50 years or longer; it makes one dopey, see.
Also, who doesn't love manatees? They're so happy and huggy and cute.
Heh, everyone feels dumb about stuff that's hard to explain, 'tis life.
This is what I was talking about - and what the other posters brought up as well.
To me, and I daresay to the teens I know pretty well (and I know a decent bunch), 'Hi, how are you, lovely' is much more serious than 'omg how the fuck r u?' The latter is much more casual among teens, and everyone else, I know. It really isn't as ubiquitous as you think. I know teens who are quite popular and involved and etc., who refuse to type in text speak at all because they think it's just dopey. Also know plenty who do, just saying it's not a universal at all.
Also, the asterisk thing isn't text speak I've ever run into; I've only ever seen that employed places where cursing is frowned upon, like Christian-based message boards or what have you. I dunno anyone at all, kids or adults, who asterisks curse words.
Hence, if you include this stuff to mean certain things like casual to serious, you'd have to include the explanation that it does, because it's simply not going to be intuitive to the wider population. Also, as noted above, it'll be obsolete before you know it.
Just btw, dope has meant weed for like 50 years or longer; it makes one dopey, see.
Also, who doesn't love manatees? They're so happy and huggy and cute.
I know it's not universal, I just know it's a thing, and for these characters it's a thing. But it's such a specific thing and that's obviously the part I'm worried about, because I could easily just write things the regular way and everyone everywhere would understand.
Man I'm being confusing tonight, the asterisk was only there so I wouldn't offend anyone, specifically the Jesus thing. They don't use it in the wip.
I'm so young and uninformed. I wonder where the word "dope" even came from.
So yeah I definitely don't want to do the explanation thing, like I would like things to just be clear as possible so I'll just look through and make everything a little simpler. I'm giving you like three buckets of thank you's.
P.S. in my years of being a teenager (which are almost through) I went from "lol" and "how r u. good wbu" to "Hello. How are you? I'm okay." and refusing to use chatspeak because I was Proper and people who did use it were Not Proper and I would like correct grammar and stuff (I was annoying okay) to not using "chatspeak" but not really capitalizing things or using a lot of punctuation to the thing that I am now, which I'm 10000000000% will change also. So for me the way people type and stuff like that has always been pretty interesting and I think that's one of the reasons I'm so obsessed with making these characters type differently than in my other wips, where it's not really anything special. Thanks again
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You started me wondering about the chicken/eggness of dope meaning drug or dumb.
The Etymology Dictionary says -
So it apparently goes -
Gravy --> head full of gravy ---> drugged as a head full of... ---> the 'inside dope' knowing which horse was drugged. All over 100 years old.
The Etymology Dictionary says -
So it apparently goes -
Gravy --> head full of gravy ---> drugged as a head full of... ---> the 'inside dope' knowing which horse was drugged. All over 100 years old.
Makes me want to time travel and accidentally use dope to mean cool and have people give me the 1807 equivalent of "wtf dude."
Also, autocorrect makes it difficult to chatspeak, which is fun to write about (too much fun actually, I am gonna have to rip this thing apart in revisions), not as fun IRL though. Just annoying. Can't my phone TELL I'm trying to not capitalize my i's, jeez.
Also, autocorrect makes it difficult to chatspeak, which is fun to write about (too much fun actually, I am gonna have to rip this thing apart in revisions), not as fun IRL though. Just annoying. Can't my phone TELL I'm trying to not capitalize my i's, jeez.
Yeah, I agree with the others. What may seem like a good idea at the time, it might not be such a good idea later. Hopefully (and this is what every writer strives for) is to get the book read for years and years. And those years ahead of the book will outdate your book quickly. Kids twenty years from now will be reading it like "Yeah, that's what my parents did back in 2013."
Plus you might have to have a glossary of all the abbreviations and all that for readers to even begin to understand like in other countries n stuff. Ya know?
Plus you might have to have a glossary of all the abbreviations and all that for readers to even begin to understand like in other countries n stuff. Ya know?
Yeaaaaaaah and personally I think that's kind of tacky, almost like if I were making up my own stuff, which I also am not a huge fan of, so yeah. I'm gonna tone it down. It's not gonna kill anyone. Thanks
Like the others have said, I would try to be authentic to your MC's voice, and to her interactions, but I think that much chatspeak would not only date your work, it would alienate some readers and drive others crazy. If you have to use it, I would do so sparingly.
Personally, my eyes glaze over and I tend to just skip long lines of chatspeak, or too much of it. It slows the story down when I have to spend chunks of time thinking through what each abbreviation means, and I don't know what half of yours mean (I'm only 30 by the way, with teenage siblings and I work with teens all the time, so I'm not exactly out of touch). For example, "wbu?" No clue.
Others, are regional, as hard as it is to believe. The teens I know spend a lot of time on the Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat and Instagram, but they pretty much only interact with people they already know, and they don't hang out on boards like these or other online chat programs, so they have their own abbreviations and chatspeak slang that I don't see others use elsewhere on the internet, like turning emoticons upside down as an example of the top of my head. Instead of : ) Every time I see it, I think they're starting a parenthetical, and I pretty much came of age during the height of chat rooms. (Side note, do people even use chat rooms anymore? The last time I did was back in like 2005).
I also second cornflake that for the people I know "Hi, how are you, lovely," especially between a guy and a girl, is a bigger deal than "omg how the fuck r u?" If a guy sent the latter to a girl he liked, it would probably get him slapped in these parts.
Basically, if you're relying on things like that to showcase how their relationship is evolving, you need to be sure and show how important it is, rather than expect the reader to pick up on it. Just like if you were writing a fantasy with completely new courting methods. Otherwise, you risk confusing and frustrating the reader.
Personally, my eyes glaze over and I tend to just skip long lines of chatspeak, or too much of it. It slows the story down when I have to spend chunks of time thinking through what each abbreviation means, and I don't know what half of yours mean (I'm only 30 by the way, with teenage siblings and I work with teens all the time, so I'm not exactly out of touch). For example, "wbu?" No clue.
Others, are regional, as hard as it is to believe. The teens I know spend a lot of time on the Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat and Instagram, but they pretty much only interact with people they already know, and they don't hang out on boards like these or other online chat programs, so they have their own abbreviations and chatspeak slang that I don't see others use elsewhere on the internet, like turning emoticons upside down as an example of the top of my head.
Instead of : ) Every time I see it, I think they're starting a parenthetical, and I pretty much came of age during the height of chat rooms. (Side note, do people even use chat rooms anymore? The last time I did was back in like 2005).I also second cornflake that for the people I know "Hi, how are you, lovely," especially between a guy and a girl, is a bigger deal than "omg how the fuck r u?" If a guy sent the latter to a girl he liked, it would probably get him slapped in these parts.
Basically, if you're relying on things like that to showcase how their relationship is evolving, you need to be sure and show how important it is, rather than expect the reader to pick up on it. Just like if you were writing a fantasy with completely new courting methods. Otherwise, you risk confusing and frustrating the reader.
Okay so for the first thing "hi lovely how the fuck are u" was a poor example and I'm sorry I chose to use it. I just meant in my experiences, with a dude I like but only met a few weeks ago it'll be something like "Hi, how are you? We should definitely hang out more!" but with close friends it'll be like "hey how's life? i havent seen you in a week wtf come over loser"
But yeah, I agree. I want it to be just one element that helps show how it's evolving, I don't want to rely on it. I can't remember right now but I think my MC has a couple lines here and there where he mentions noticing and being excited about his LI starting to be "looser" when texting him and stuff like that. For me I equate it to like, I don't like eating in front of or lounging about with friends or love interests that I haven't known very long, but once I get more comfortable we're like eating raw top ramen and getting it all over the sofa every time I'm over. And it just makes things more comfortable you know? And I probably shouldn't worry about stuff like that very much in regards to chatspeak, but I do anyway, hence this thread.
I'm gonna tone it down and use abbreviations sparingly. I went through a bit this morning and do you guys think it's alright to say stuff like "i'm p sure that's okay" instead of "pretty sure" (the same for v vs. very) or is that confusing? It seems simple to me but I've also been doing it for forever so I don't even remember if I was ever like "what the heck is that v there for."
Thanks again
I really appreciate it. I always get way too pop culture-y in writing. Maybe because I'm young and cannot possibly fathom things I think are so cool going out of style. It's good to have help on this kind of stuff.
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I'm confused - do you mean if you're writing a text someone has written?
I don't see that one, 'p' for 'pretty,' at all really, though I do see 'v' for 'very,' so while I'd probably figure it out contextually, I'd find it odd and have to stop and look at it.
You don't mean just people speaking to each other though, right?
For me, I find that writing something a clever way draws attention to the writer rather than the story.
In this case, if someone is reading a book . . . odds are their semi-literate or want to be. So writing with words that are abbreviated is kind of like painting realistic pictures with only primary colors. Can you convey the same information? Sure. Isn't unique to a specific type of person? Sure.
But a person who likes books probably has some enjoyment for the language itself. So I'd use enough to give a flavor of the characters and story, but the narrator would do a little more work to translate the authentic to something more palatable.
I mean that's what the narrator does. The characters don't need thing explained, it's the reader who needs the explanation. That's why true stream of consciousness writing is good for about a page. IMO =)
In this case, if someone is reading a book . . . odds are their semi-literate or want to be. So writing with words that are abbreviated is kind of like painting realistic pictures with only primary colors. Can you convey the same information? Sure. Isn't unique to a specific type of person? Sure.
But a person who likes books probably has some enjoyment for the language itself. So I'd use enough to give a flavor of the characters and story, but the narrator would do a little more work to translate the authentic to something more palatable.
I mean that's what the narrator does. The characters don't need thing explained, it's the reader who needs the explanation. That's why true stream of consciousness writing is good for about a page. IMO =)
Yeah I mean for texting, not for people speaking to each other. Thanks. I'll consider changing that one too then, or just use it sparingly enough that it doesn't really matter.
I'll consider changing that one too then, or just use it sparingly enough that it doesn't really matter.
This is also a good point and "how fast it will be dated" is one of my biggest problems. I'm not really worried about the "people only talk like this in certain areas" thing though because it's difficult to explain but this is an Internet Thing that is everywhere right now and definitely not just the US. But like you said, "right now" isn't "three years from now" and just ugh that's what I'm worried about next to the relationship thing.
Thanks so much.
Lol you sound like me explaining something to my grandma. I know it's an "Internet thing." I also know scrolling through tumblr or twitter makes you feel like "Internet things" at totally universal and everyone gets it. But I live in France, for example (I'm American) and they are waaaaaay behind us in terms of Internet trends and trends in general. They've realy only started using twitter. So my friends who understand the stuff you've mentioned are all hipsters and "ahead."
I know it isn't really an issue as you aren't writing in French. But just some perspective. Like, I know all about the top secret world of the Internet. Some people, some young, book-loving people, just don't.
ETA: should have read the other replies too, I basically repeated what everyone else said! Whoops
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Thanks. I'm dumb about these things, I am. I'm just gonna like go a little easier on it, it works for all my other wips if there's texting stuff in it so I figure it can be a little bit more specific for characterization purposes but it doesn't have to be as over the top as I make it seem. Thanks again, you always give good feedback about things.
I'm dumb about these things, I am. I'm just gonna like go a little easier on it, it works for all my other wips if there's texting stuff in it so I figure it can be a little bit more specific for characterization purposes but it doesn't have to be as over the top as I make it seem. Thanks again, you always give good feedback about things.
Becca C.
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Hi, you look really cute today.
This made me LOL because I literally just rolled out of bed XD
I get what you mean about the extreme chat speak. I use it with my best friend when we're being silly -- "wanna come ovah 2 mai howse?" "omg ya i doooo!" "bwing da snax n stuf k?" "k!"
Even though we're both super, hyper-literate and froth at the mouth when other people make basic grammar mistakes. I think if that's part of your characters' interactions, make it obvious. Make them laugh about it. Show them hilariously trying to come up with new slang -- and completely failing by having the "cool new word" have a completely dirty double meaning
have them be generally smart, articulate people outside of their silly conversations. Yeah, I know what you mean about the super-fake chatspeak written by 40-year-olds. Deadly Cool by Gemma Halliday had some of the fakest chatspeak I've ever read. No one ever really types "2nite" or "4evr" when they're being serious! Not now that cell phones allow more than 100 characters per text!
This made me LOL because I literally just rolled out of bed XD
I get what you mean about the extreme chat speak. I use it with my best friend when we're being silly -- "wanna come ovah 2 mai howse?" "omg ya i doooo!" "bwing da snax n stuf k?" "k!"
Even though we're both super, hyper-literate and froth at the mouth when other people make basic grammar mistakes. I think if that's part of your characters' interactions, make it obvious. Make them laugh about it. Show them hilariously trying to come up with new slang -- and completely failing by having the "cool new word" have a completely dirty double meaning
Yeah, I know what you mean about the super-fake chatspeak written by 40-year-olds. Deadly Cool by Gemma Halliday had some of the fakest chatspeak I've ever read. No one ever really types "2nite" or "4evr" when they're being serious! Not now that cell phones allow more than 100 characters per text!
I sometimes go overboard with the text speak because I'm being ridiculous. So 'want 2 hang 2nite or no' or 'miss u luv u wanna b w/ u' are supposed to sound real stupid. But also, with autocorrect, you have to either be really devoted that shit or keep it basic (although I wish my iphone would stop capitalizing lol (LOL) because it's funny but not that funny amririte). I mean it came out of the difficulty of having to type out entire words with those number keyboards on the old nokia type phones (literal fossils)(no offense to anyone still rocking one, very vintage). So now that people have entire keyboards, I think the text speak is more likely to be deliberate and purposeful rather than something everyone under a certain age defaults to.
I also think the manatee looks kind of cool, just chilling there in the tropical waters. In terms of authentic adolescent chat it depends on how far you want to take it. There are phrases and slang that just always seems to work and then there are others that go out of style and date what you've written. If you overdo it can become hard for others to read and also becomes more of accent than something that adds authenticity to the work.
Becca, yesss. That's exactly the kind of thing I was trying to figure out, how to incorporate such a simple thing into their relationship but in a non-obnoxious way. I think having the extreme part of it be a joke or whatever would be a lot easier to work out. And there are so many different ways to make it work too.
Missesdash I go overboard like that too, and sometimes it's because I'm being silly or occasionally because I'm just tired and it's my best friend so who cares if I sound dumb for a little bit. Yeah autocorrect makes it really difficult to chatspeak so that could even play into them being so devoted to having this dumb joke for a few minutes that they have to deal with it. And it's such a small part of the actual story anyway, like really just a technicality so I think I was just overreacting and worrying for something I would've realized and fixed later anyway.
ChrisElfy, thanks. The manatee brightens my day every time I look at him. And yeah I agree completely and I think one of my biggest problems is I try to be too authentic, so authentic for the time period that in like three years people will be like "what the heck is going on here, that was seriously a thing?????" So yeeeeeeeeeeah I definitely have to work on that, I go extremely overboard the first couple drafts.
Thanks everyone!!! I really appreciate it. Seriously I'm just stupid as heck when it comes to perspective, I have a habit of assuming everybody else is in on my own little world too when in reality most people want nothing to do with it. You're all super cool. I hope I don't sound too repetitive but I really thank you!!!! From the bottom of my heart.
Missesdash I go overboard like that too, and sometimes it's because I'm being silly or occasionally because I'm just tired and it's my best friend so who cares if I sound dumb for a little bit. Yeah autocorrect makes it really difficult to chatspeak so that could even play into them being so devoted to having this dumb joke for a few minutes that they have to deal with it. And it's such a small part of the actual story anyway, like really just a technicality so I think I was just overreacting and worrying for something I would've realized and fixed later anyway.
ChrisElfy, thanks.
The manatee brightens my day every time I look at him. And yeah I agree completely and I think one of my biggest problems is I try to be too authentic, so authentic for the time period that in like three years people will be like "what the heck is going on here, that was seriously a thing?????" So yeeeeeeeeeeah I definitely have to work on that, I go extremely overboard the first couple drafts. Thanks everyone!!! I really appreciate it. Seriously I'm just stupid as heck when it comes to perspective, I have a habit of assuming everybody else is in on my own little world too when in reality most people want nothing to do with it.
You're all super cool. I hope I don't sound too repetitive but I really thank you!!!! From the bottom of my heart.
I think everyone has made excellent, valid points. My only [amateur] suggestion is that as a teen (for a few more months yet, anyway) I noticed that when me and my friends text each other, we tend to use full words - not things like 'l8r m8'. If we're running out of space we'll abreviate to things like 'tho' (though) and 'atm' 'tbh'. Standard things like 'lol' or 'omg' I'd say you're safe with, because they don't go out of fashion really. A lot of teens throw grammar out of the window as regards to switching around their/they're, you're/your etc but that's about it.
Also, why not have your teens make up their own slang? My group at school used to try and 'reinvent' slang (like instead of calling boys 'hot' it would be 'He is fine' or 'he's delicious' etc, and we mixed our rural 'farmer' slang (grockles, janners, chaviccs etc) with slang we'd picked up from holidays, music, books and the internet.
But we were probably just weirdos
Also, why not have your teens make up their own slang? My group at school used to try and 'reinvent' slang (like instead of calling boys 'hot' it would be 'He is fine' or 'he's delicious' etc, and we mixed our rural 'farmer' slang (grockles, janners, chaviccs etc) with slang we'd picked up from holidays, music, books and the internet.
But we were probably just weirdos