Bowker (for ISBNs) now has a self-publishing page

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HistorySleuth

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Bowker (where you get ISBNs for your books) now has a self-publishing page! Self-pub authors always debate the necessity and use of ISBN numbers. Get your answers from the horse's mouth I always say. Personally, I plan on getting them. Especially since they send the listing out to major bookstores and search engines. They have some useful articles too. It's about time I say.

http://www.selfpublishedauthor.com./getting_started
 

Cathy C

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It's about time! That's been one of the strangleholds that scam publishers have had on the market. It would be terrific for self-pub authors to be able to be the actual owner of their own ISBN that will show up in the catalogues. :)
 

ljndawson

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Hi - I'm the product manager for SelfPublishedAuthor.com. I'll be at the Bowker booth at BEA, for folks who will be attending - I'm also moderating a panel at uPublishU on Saturday, as well. So if you have any questions/feedback, you can find me there.

Thanks for the good words - I agree that owning your own ISBNs is probably the best route to discovery on the web; been saying that since long before I started working at Bowker!
 

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Interesting. I'll also have to look closely at their publishing service ($300 for the basic package), though I'm not sure what it offers for that fee that you don't get with Smashwords or D2D for free.
 

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What it offers is when a bookstore is asked to order the book by a reader, the bookstore won't see Smashwords as the publisher, which some distributors that the bookstore contracts with won't work with.

So, the truth is that with a Smashwords or Createspace label in the computer, there are some stores who cannot, or will not, order the book into their store.

Don't believe me? Read one self-pub author's journey here
 

HistorySleuth

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:hi:Welcome ljnDawson. Cathy, agreeded on the difference. I think a page directed to assist self-published authors takes some of the scarey out of it. I think some don't do it because it seemed like it was just for publishing companies not authors as themselves, if I'm saying that right.

I also think it will help to clear up a lot of confusion for self-published authors as to what requires a separate number. I've read a lot of debates, and not just at AW, especially when it comes to digital formats. Does the file for the Kindle get a separate ISBN than the one for the Nook etc. Some say yes, some say no because they are all read on a electronic reader as opposed to a hard copy, paperback or audio book.

Then there is the whole Smashwords thing. Do they use the same number on all the ebook formats they do for people? I heard yes but I don't know personally.

Anyway, this will be a helpful place to point people to when such things come up.
 

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It's about time! That's been one of the strangleholds that scam publishers have had on the market. It would be terrific for self-pub authors to be able to be the actual owner of their own ISBN that will show up in the catalogues. :)

How are they scam publishers with a stranglehold when you already have the ability to purchase your own ISBNs from Bowker and use those at both CreateSpace and Smashwords?

Self-published authors have had the ability to own their own ISBNs for a long, long time. This is nothing new.
 

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It's just a package of basic services that most of us take care of ourselves or pay someone a little less to accomplish. $300 or whatever is better than most of the real bandits like Penguin Author Solutions, but it's also a lot of money that could be going in the author's pocket.

The value of an ISBN to an ebook remains extremely low.

Then there is the whole Smashwords thing. Do they use the same number on all the ebook formats they do for people? I heard yes but I don't know personally.

They only distribute epubs so all their distributed formats have the same ISBN. They offer mobi, pdf, etc. through their own store, but they don't distribute and therefore don't need any ISBNs. You can supply your own ISBN for the epub, but there's no option for other formats.

D2D doesn't use ISBNs at all as they're not necessary for Amazon, Apple, B&N, or Nook, but you can add your own from Bowker if you have a mind to.

So, the truth is that with a Smashwords or Createspace label in the computer, there are some stores who cannot, or will not, order the book into their store.

It's next to impossible to get your books into bookshops anyway unless you're already hitting best seller lists with sales through Amazon, B&N, etc. Trade publishing still has a defacto lock on the distribution chain for print books.
 
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It's next to impossible to get your books into bookshops anyway unless you're already hitting best seller lists with sales through Amazon, B&N, etc. Trade publishing still has a defacto lock on the distribution chain for print books.

Even if you do hit the real best-seller lists--and note that being a best-seller in an obscure or small category doesn't qualify--your print editions won't automatically get into bookshops: for example, what if your e-edition is the best-seller, and you don't have a print edition in place? Or you only have a POD print edition available, so your print edition is overpriced, or can't be swiftly available? And if you do have stock of a high-quality, affordable print edition, how are you going to get it into the bookshops without a distributor to help you get it there, even if you are on a good best-seller list?

Distributors will work with any publisher--trade or self--who has a catalogue of books available, so long as those books are of high enough quality, are priced reasonably, and are in stock; and so long as the publisher will accept returns, and has a strong marketing plan in place along with the budget to back it up.

The problem for most self-publishers is that they can't or won't comply with these requirements; or that they can't or won't accommodate the high discounts that distributors require.

It is possible for self-publishers to get their print editions into bookshops under their own efforts but doing so is very labour-intensive as each bookshop has to be approached individually, which naturally cuts into writing time.
 

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Hi, HistorySleuth. Thanks for the welcome. We've got an FAQ for ISBNs here: http://www.selfpublishedauthor.com/content/faqs-about-isbns. The ISBN standard requires a separate ISBN be assigned to each format of a book (print or digital). Not all publishers adhere to this, and basically it's best to talk to your vendor about their needs.

KatieElle, the value of an ISBN depends on what your goals are. An ISBN is better than any other data point for SEO - all the major search engines license Books in Print. While it doesn't mean much to the reader/customer, it's a huge asset in the way machines (whether in a store's receiving room or warehouse, or online) communicate with one another - which ultimately how the reader is going to discover your book.

An author who is only going to list a book on a single website, and who is not worried about greater discovery, probably wouldn't see a lot of value in an ISBN.
 

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Even if you do hit the real best-seller lists--and note that being a best-seller in an obscure or small category doesn't qualify--your print editions won't automatically get into bookshops

I meant the real best seller's lists--NY Times or USA Today combined ebook/print. I know Hugh Howey said he was getting into B&N after he got on the NYT.

And yes, even then getting into stores is not going to be an easy done deal. Just IMHO, it's not going to get a whole lot easier regardless of what your ISBN says. Self published print books still exist in the IMHO rather hopeless state they were in before 2009. It's a vivid contrast to ebooks, where everything changed for us that year because of Nook and Kindle and the 70% commission.

KatieElle, the value of an ISBN depends on what your goals are. An ISBN is better than any other data point for SEO - all the major search engines license Books in Print. While it doesn't mean much to the reader/customer, it's a huge asset in the way machines (whether in a store's receiving room or warehouse, or online) communicate with one another - which ultimately how the reader is going to discover your book.

Ebooks don't go through warehouses. You upload them directly and discoverability is about bought/also boughts, top 100 lists, hot new releases, and that sort of thing.

As I've said, I regard trying to market print to bookshops as pretty much hopeless and just IMHO the way that vanity presses pander to that dream is one of the most insidious and nasty parts about them. Anyone giving advice to people going it alone should be pointing them at ebooks because of a long list of reasons.
 

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Hi, HistorySleuth. Thanks for the welcome. We've got an FAQ for ISBNs here: http://www.selfpublishedauthor.com/content/faqs-about-isbns. The ISBN standard requires a separate ISBN be assigned to each format of a book (print or digital).

Hi ljndawson, Welcome to AW. I have a question for you that I've yet to see answered consistently. I'm pretty confident you will be the one to have the correct information.

I am an author that bought a block of ISBN's when I decided to publish my first novel. I assigned one to my print book and a second one to my ebook that is only available on Amazon at this time (although for some reason unknown to me, it appears they used their own instead of the one I provided).

You say the ISBN standard requires a separate ISBN be assigned to each format of a book (print or digital). Just so I'm clear: when you say format, I'm assuming an ebook is one format. So when an ebook title has an ISBN assigned to it, does that number stay with that ebook when you publish it on another site? Or, does that ebook need a different ISBN for each place you publish, such as one for Amazon and another one for B&N, etc. I've seen it answered both ways, so I find it confusing. Perhaps others need clarification too.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.
 

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I meant the real best seller's lists--NY Times or USA Today combined ebook/print. I know Hugh Howey said he was getting into B&N after he got on the NYT.

I thought Mr Howey only self-published electronic editions of his books: I didn't realise he self-published print editions too.

And yes, even then getting into stores is not going to be an easy done deal. Just IMHO, it's not going to get a whole lot easier regardless of what your ISBN says. Self published print books still exist in the IMHO rather hopeless state they were in before 2009. It's a vivid contrast to ebooks, where everything changed for us that year because of Nook and Kindle and the 70% commission.

Owning your own ISBNs does make it much easier to get self-published print books into bookshops. That doesn't mean that it's easy; just that it's much easier than doing it without an ISBN. If a book can't be added to a bookseller's ISBN-dependent database, it's unlikely to be added to that same bookseller's stock: they just can't process the orders, stocklists or sales.

Ebooks don't go through warehouses. You upload them directly and discoverability is about bought/also boughts, top 100 lists, hot new releases, and that sort of thing.

Katie, I'm sure that ljndawson understands precisely how much room e-books occupy on warehouse racks.

She wrote,

KatieElle, the value of an ISBN depends on what your goals are. An ISBN is better than any other data point for SEO - all the major search engines license Books in Print. While it doesn't mean much to the reader/customer, it's a huge asset in the way machines (whether in a store's receiving room or warehouse, or online) communicate with one another - which ultimately how the reader is going to discover your book.

My bold.

As for "discoverability": in most databases, books are identified by their ISBNs, not by their titles or authors. Those things you list--bought/also boughts, top 100 lists, etc--use algorithms which depend on ISBNs to identify the books concerned. If your books don't have ISBNs then they're going to be more difficult for the system to recognise, and therefore less likely to appear on the lists to which you refer.

As I've said, I regard trying to market print to bookshops as pretty much hopeless and just IMHO the way that vanity presses pander to that dream is one of the most insidious and nasty parts about them.

You think that the way vanity presses encourage writers to market print editions is one of the nastiest things about vanity publishing?

I find myself much more upset about the way vanity publishers mislead writers about the realities of publishing is far worse; the way they pretend that they're offering self-publishing services when they're not; the way they pretend that the books they accept are going to sell in great number; the way they destroy writers' dreams; and the way they rip off so many trusting, hopeful writers, often leaving them in debt with an unsellable book on their hands.

Anyone giving advice to people going it alone should be pointing them at ebooks because of a long list of reasons.

Not if electronic publishing isn't the best option for the writers concerned.

There isn't a one-size-fits-all solution to everyone's publishing needs, regardless of whether they want to self publish or trade publish, and it's reckless to suggest otherwise.
 

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You say the ISBN standard requires a separate ISBN be assigned to each format of a book (print or digital). Just so I'm clear: when you say format, I'm assuming an ebook is one format.

Hardback, trade paperback, mass market paperback, e-book, large print: they're all different formats, and so should have their own individual ISBNs.

But there's more!

When a book is repackaged in any way--for example, if it's given a new jacket design, if an introduction is added, and so on--then that's a new edition, and that will usually require a new ISBN, even if an earlier ISBN exists for the title in that format.

[/QUOTE]So when an ebook title has an ISBN assigned to it, does that number stay with that ebook when you publish it on another site? Or, does that ebook need a different ISBN for each place you publish, such as one for Amazon and another one for B&N, etc. I've seen it answered both ways, so I find it confusing. Perhaps others need clarification too.
[/QUOTE]

Think of it this way: when a print edition is published, it's given its own ISBN. That ISBN remains unchanged wherever that book is sold, in every bookshop, online and off. If each new retailer required a new ISBN, the system would be unwieldy and we wouldn't get the sales data etc that we can get at the moment.

I have seen different ISBNs used for the various e-book formats: I have been told by one publisher which does this that it's because when e-books are device-specific and DRM-protected, then each e-book format is a different edition; and using separate ISBNs makes it easier to track the sales of the various versions, so providing more useful sales data. I'm not entirely convinced by this argument, though.

You can of course use your own ISBNs in any way you like: as the publisher, it's up to you what you do with them, so long as you follow certain guidelines. Work out what you want to get from using them, and work out how to get that result.
 

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I thought Mr Howey only self-published electronic editions of his books: I didn't realise he self-published print editions too.


Sure, he's got POD print of everything. The WOOL Omnibus in particular was out for about a year before S&S picked it up. Still available from 3rd parties:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1469984202/?tag=absowrit-20

I don't recall Hugh ever mentioning the self-pub version made it into B&N though.

Owning your own ISBNs does make it much easier to get self-published print books into bookshops. That doesn't mean that it's easy; just that it's much easier than doing it without an ISBN.

Do you have any thoughts about the difference between a CreateSpace ISBN vs a unique ISBN? Do you think it's a marginal difference, or the CS one is only slightly better than none at all?

(My guess would be the cases of the discrimination against CS are overhyped anecdotes rather than a pervasive bias amongst booksellers, but that's truly severe guesswork.)
 

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Well print has to have an ISBN. CS isn't going to do you a version without one afaik.

I have seen different ISBNs used for the various e-book formats: I have been told by one publisher which does this that it's because when e-books are device-specific and DRM-protected, then each e-book format is a different edition; and using separate ISBNs makes it easier to track the sales of the various versions, so providing more useful sales data. I'm not entirely convinced by this argument, though.

If it's a different file type (mobi, epub, pdf) or a same format with different DRM (Adobe epub vs B&N DRM epub) it is supposed to have a different ISBN. None of which will make any difference to anyone but Bowker's stockholders. Again. IMHO.

In terms of sales data, in terms of KDP, NookPress, etc. you have up to the day sales information. ARe even breaks down what format the customer buys from. My understanding is that most trade published authors don't get information nearly as detailed or timely, not sure if the publisher's do or would even care. It is kind of nitpicky. When you first get started, it's sort of interesting (and thrilling) to know you sold X copies of ebook of Title X in Italy on Y date, but after a while it's like "how much are they depositing in my bank account on what date?"

My guess would be the cases of the discrimination against CS are overhyped anecdotes rather than a pervasive bias amongst booksellers, but that's truly severe guesswork

I'm sure it's real. They would have ordered one book and you would have made one dollar on a ten dollar retail price, half what you made on a $2.99 ebook. Big whoop.

The reality of print is "they're just not that into you." Most people I know are more concerned about audiobooks than print.
 
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I'm sure it's real. They would have ordered one book and you would have made one dollar on a ten dollar retail price, half what you made on a $2.99 ebook. Big whoop.

I mean all else equal, just a variation in the publisher listed on the ISBN.

I agree, in general, if you want to be in bookstores, self-publishing probably the wrong choice for you. But I doubt using the cheapie ISBN from CS hurts you beyond the existing hurdles and my "don't buy single or small lots of ISBNs from Bowker" advice for self-publishers persists (outside of some very specific circumstances.)
 

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Sure, he's got POD print of everything. The WOOL Omnibus in particular was out for about a year before S&S picked it up. Still available from 3rd parties:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1469984202/?tag=absowrit-20

I don't recall Hugh ever mentioning the self-pub version made it into B&N though.

Gah, I didn't make myself clear: I meant to say "offset version", not "print edition". Sorry about that.

I knew there was a POD edition of the books; my point, which I failed to make quite spectacularly, was that it's very difficult to get POD books into bookshops even if the shops are desperate for them. The quality of POD books isn't usually good enough for them to cope well with life on a bookshop shelf; the cost of them is such that they're often/usually too expensive for their publishers to be able to give bookshops the deep discounts they require; and the long production time required to print any reasonable quantity of books make responding to orders promptly very difficult indeed. On top of that there's the whole cashflow thing, and the unlikelihood that self-published writers who produce print editions will accept returns, and it all gets very difficult getting those books onto shelves.

Do you have any thoughts about the difference between a CreateSpace ISBN vs a unique ISBN? Do you think it's a marginal difference, or the CS one is only slightly better than none at all?

(My guess would be the cases of the discrimination against CS are overhyped anecdotes rather than a pervasive bias amongst booksellers, but that's truly severe guesswork.)

There are a number of factors at play here.

When Amazon announced its own publishing arm--not the self-publishing thing, the one more akin to trade publishing--I'm pretty sure that B&N announced that it wasn't going to stock any titles published by Amazon's imprints. So there's that.

Then there are all the problems inherent in getting a POD book onto bookshop shelves in the first place, which I've just outlined a couple of paragraphs ago. A bookshop sees from the CS ISBN that a book is self-published, understands the problems inherent in that, and might well be reluctant to go any further because they know the author is likely to be unable to provide big enough discounts or accept returns, which makes it not financially viable for the bookshop to stock the book on its expensive shelves.

Finally, a non-standard ISBN might well not work through the usual systems--I've not got time to check here, but I hope someone else will soon chime in. I am pretty sure that CS's ISBNs don't work properly in the various software systems that booksellers use: their ordering, stockholding, sales and accounts records all depend on ISBNs to channel books onto their shelves and into their customers' hands, and working with books which don't have the right ISBNs causes all sorts of problems--which can be significant enough for the bookshops to be unable to stock or sell the books even if they want to.

Well print has to have an ISBN. CS isn't going to do you a version without one afaik.

If it's a different file type (mobi, epub, pdf) or a same format with different DRM (Adobe epub vs B&N DRM epub) it is supposed to have a different ISBN. None of which will make any difference to anyone but Bowker's stockholders. Again. IMHO.

As I've explained before, both here and in other conversations we've both participated in at AW, publishers get a huge amount of very useful data from their use of ISBNs. If it were only Bowker's stockholders who were affected by the use of multiple ISBNs, trade publishers wouldn't do it. Why incur an unnecessary expense?

In terms of sales data, in terms of KDP, NookPress, etc. you have up to the day sales information. ARe even breaks down what format the customer buys from. My understanding is that most trade published authors don't get information nearly as detailed or timely, not sure if the publisher's do or would even care.

The good, bigger, publishers subscribe to Nielsen BookData, which allows them to look up any ISBNs they want to and find out the current levels of sales--even those for books they don't publish. So yes, they have the same levels of sales data available via KDP etc, and from what I've gathered, they get more detail and more history than KDP etc provide.

Publishers also have their own sales records (or those of their distributors, of course) which they can compare to the sales figures Nielsen reports to get a good idea of what's happening out there in bookselling-land.

Writers who are published by trade publishers tend not to have access to such information (although we are all able to subscribe to Nielsen if we can afford the subscriptions): they receive royalty statements and payments as frequently as their contracts stipulate, which is usually twice a year--but as most of the better literary agents also subscribe to Nielsen, they do get more frequent updates if they want. For example, they'll be able to find out how well their books do in pre-publication, and on publication day, and so on.

It is kind of nitpicky. When you first get started, it's sort of interesting (and thrilling) to know you sold X copies of ebook of Title X in Italy on Y date, but after a while it's like "how much are they depositing in my bank account on what date?"

With all due respect to all the self-publishers I know who work really hard, it must also be discouraging to see that after all your hard work you've only sold four books in a week, though. At least a royalty statement once every six months usually presents a more robust number, even if the daily figures are no better!

My guess would be the cases of the discrimination against CS are overhyped anecdotes rather than a pervasive bias amongst booksellers, but that's truly severe guesswork

I'm sure it's real. They would have ordered one book and you would have made one dollar on a ten dollar retail price, half what you made on a $2.99 ebook. Big whoop.

Katie, why are you "sure it's real"? How many writers do you know who have had bookshops refuse to stock their books based solely on the fact that it sported a CS ISBN, rather than a Nielsen one?

If their books were refused with that reason, are you sure it's a reason and not an excuse, made because the bookseller thought the book concerned was of a poor standard but didn't want to hurt the writers' feelings?

And if that reason were given, then it could be a real difficulty, rather than discrimination against CS, caused in great part by reasons I already outlined earlier in this post.

It's true that not having a standard ISBN can cause problems for bookshops who want to stock the books concerned: but their reluctance to do so is not usually discrimination or a sneery attitude to self-publishing. The issues are the complexities of doing business with publishers which are outside the usual loop, and a lack of quality in most of the books offered under such conditions.

The reality of print is "they're just not that into you." Most people I know are more concerned about audiobooks than print.

Most people I know are more concerned about good books. Some prefer e-books, some prefer print, and some prefer audio books. It's the content that's important, not the container you put it in. Although if you want to maximise your sales, it's wise to put it into as many containers as you can, and not dismiss any of them as dull or unimportant.
 

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Finally, a non-standard ISBN might well not work through the usual systems

I'm still not clear what is nonstandard about a CS ISBN. These are "real" ISBNs, not ASINs or pseudo-ISBNs. The only difference is they list CS as the publisher and distributor.

As I've explained before, both here and in other conversations we've both participated in at AW, publishers get a huge amount of very useful data from their use of ISBNs. If it were only Bowker's stockholders who were affected by the use of multiple ISBNs, trade publishers wouldn't do it. Why incur an unnecessary expense?

What trade publishers do isn't the issue, it's what we do. And I've yet to have any benefit really laid out for spending money on ISBNs to sell ebooks directly through KDP, PubIt, Kobo, etc.

Although if you want to maximise your sales, it's wise to put it into as many containers as you can, and not dismiss any of them as dull or unimportant.

I wasn't thinking about having print in general as much as I meant spending time trying to sell to brick and mortar booksellers. Getting a version up through CS for people who prefer paper is one thing. Driving around trying to convince indie bookshops to stock you or worrying about buying overpriced ISBNs from Bowker as a way to assist that is quite another.
 

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Gah, I didn't make myself clear: I meant to say "offset version", not "print edition". Sorry about that.

Then, yes, your initial thought is accurate, that Hugh never did offset print.

Finally, a non-standard ISBN might well not work through the usual systems--I've not got time to check here, but I hope someone else will soon chime in. I am pretty sure that CS's ISBNs don't work properly in the various software systems that booksellers use.

CS's ISBNs come from Bowker. The difference is only that they list CS as the publisher. As I understand it, CS sends all your book's metadata back upstream but I have no way to verify that without access to those back-end systems (that I know of.)

So there could be something to seeing CS as the publisher that would instantly think "POD" to the bookbuyer and trigger all the biases against POD you mention. Incidentally, I've read that a number of the core issues with POD you mention are starting to fade due to some policy changes at the distributors, at least with their trusted booksellers. (I can dig up the link if there's any interest.) Discounts are now up to 45% and returns are accepted. So I wonder if perhaps putting your own publisher name on something really is enough to eliminate the stigma at, say, B&N? (Still, no reason to pay $125 to Bowker instead of $10 to CS...)
 

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I've never worked on the retail end of things, but if you had your own publisher name, isn't the listing at some point going to have to list CS since that's where the books come from?

Assuming you're not going to stockpile books in your basement and ship them yourself old school style.
 

Old Hack

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Then, yes, your initial thought is accurate, that Hugh never did offset print.

Ah, thank you.

Bearing that in mind I'm very interested to find out if Mr Howey got full distribution into B&N stores, as was implied by an earlier comment, with his POD editions. It's difficult to achieve for all the reasons I listed earlier, but it can sometimes be done, and if he did, I'd like to know how he got over the problems involved.

CS's ISBNs come from Bowker. The difference is only that they list CS as the publisher. As I understand it, CS sends all your book's metadata back upstream but I have no way to verify that without access to those back-end systems (that I know of.)

Ah again. I thought that CS's ISBNs were subtly different, and were issued by Amazon rather than Bowker (or Nielsen, as it would be here in the UK), as I think the identifiers for self-published Kindle books are. That'll teach me not to check before posting--I almost always do.

I doubt that Amazon would supply the sorts of sales data I'm thinking of: Amazon is notoriously tight-lipped about the sales achieved through its KDP programme, for example. It reports those sales to the authors concerned, but it doesn't allow anyone else access to them; therefore there's no way for anyone who is independent of Amazon to see the bigger picture.

So there could be something to seeing CS as the publisher that would instantly think "POD" to the bookbuyer and trigger all the biases against POD you mention.

Note that I wasn't listing "biases", I was pointing out the problems inherent in selling POD books to bookshops. There's a big difference.

Having said that, I don't think that bookshop buyers see a CS ISBN and instantly go on POD alert. I suspect it's more like this:

A bookseller is approached by a writer asking if they'll stock their self-published book; the bookseller takes a look at the book and realises it's not very good; they'll ask the writer what their terms are, and the writer won't have thought that far ahead, or will ask for terms which would leave the bookseller out of pocket even if the books sell--which, in the bookseller's opinion, is unlikely. So the bookseller refuses to stock the book, and the self-published author is disappointed.

The next day bookseller is approached by another self-published author and the same scenario plays out. Only this time it's a Saturday afternoon, the bookshop is heaving, the bookseller has paying customers to serve but the self-published author is monopolising his time.

Rinse and repeat, a few times a week, for several months.

At the end of this process, the bookseller decides not to stock any self published books at all because it's a waste of time talking to people who expect him to sell substandard books and have no idea how the business runs.

Please bear in mind that this is a worst-case scenario, I am exaggerating (slightly!), I am not sniping at self-published writers, but I have talked to several booksellers who have told me stories like this. It's not "bias" which make booksellers reluctant to stock self published titles: it's because of the complexities involved in doing so.

Incidentally, I've read that a number of the core issues with POD you mention are starting to fade due to some policy changes at the distributors, at least with their trusted booksellers. (I can dig up the link if there's any interest.) Discounts are now up to 45% and returns are accepted.

Some distributors do work with publishers which use POD. They always have. But the issues aren't caused by the distributors: POD books are very costly per copy compared to offset books, and if publishers were to discount them as much as many distributors want then they'd lose money on them (45% is a very low discount to give to distributors: that's less than most bookshops expect, so where is the distributors' margins to be made?). Returns are a big issue, of course: distributors all accept returns, so that's nothing new: it's up to the publisher, and with margins already so tight on POD books, many self-publishers can't afford to accept returns too--especially when the level of damaged returns is so high with POD books.

So I wonder if perhaps putting your own publisher name on something really is enough to eliminate the stigma at, say, B&N? (Still, no reason to pay $125 to Bowker instead of $10 to CS...)

There's not a stigma, as such: as I've already pointed out the CS name might signal that it's a POD book, but that's not the central issue: the economics are the big sticking point, along with the time it takes to fulfill orders. And if you buy a big enough block of ISBNs they're going to be cheaper than $10 per ISBN. Way cheaper. At least, they are in the UK.
 

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I've never worked on the retail end of things, but if you had your own publisher name, isn't the listing at some point going to have to list CS since that's where the books come from?

Assuming you're not going to stockpile books in your basement and ship them yourself old school style.

If you publish through CreateSpace your book will list CreateSpace as the publisher, no matter what you call yourself.

You could use a different POD printer, though, which would allow you to retain your own publisher name through the use of your own ISBNs, while avoiding the stockpile in your basement.

That approach has its problems when dealing with Amazon, however. Amazon has tried in the past to oblige all POD publishers to use their POD service rather than anyone else's; those who refused had their books listed as out of stock, with a warning that it would probably take a few weeks to fulfill any orders. I still see books with that caveat applied to them on Amazon UK.
 

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You could use a different POD printer, though, which would allow you to retain your own publisher name through the use of your own ISBNs, while avoiding the stockpile in your basement.

You can use your own ISBNs with CS. Do you mean that Amazon overrides the ISBN data and lists CS as the publisher name?

Also, you're right about the cheaper cost of ISBNs when purchased in bulk quantities. If you spent $575 you can get a block of 100, or if you spend $1000 you get a block of 1,000-only a dollar a piece. That's a great deal for small publishers who plan to put out a lot of inventory, but the 1,000 block doesn't make much sense for a self-publisher. The 100 block could. You can get 10 at $25 each, but a self-publisher who plans to actually use ISBNs for print as well as every different ebook format and who plans to publish more than a couple of things would probably do well to budget for at least the 100 block.

I still think assigning ISBNs to ebooks is a huge waste of money. You can embed your own metadata into the ebook itself. And with Amazon, at least, discoverability seemed to be based on keywords and on-page SEO from the title downward, categories and other information, not ISBN information. So it seems like a waste, but each person has that option.

I do know that Kobo did require one if you want their expanded distribution beyond kobobooks.com. I haven't looked lately, but I'm assuming it's the same. You don't need one for their main retailer, however. I'm not sure how much that distribution is actually worth. If someone spent $5.75 to $25 for that ISBN and the distribution earns a dollar more, then I guess it's worth it (and you could use that same number on the epub version at Smashwords, B&N, Apple, though they don't require them).

It wouldn't surprise me if they eventually dropped that requirement, just as everyone else has, though.
 

thothguard51

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Looking through my hardback copies, paperback copies and now my ebook copies of various books, from commercial publishers, I am noticing that with e-books, the ISBN is listed as eISBN. Is that a publisher thing to desigate that ISBN as an electronic version of the book, or do the ISBN's now offer a seperate registration mark of (e) ?

Also, I know that if a book is registered with the Library of Congress here in the U.S., the book is given a registration number, which is different than an ISBN number. Does that LoC registration number cover all versions of the book, or does each version have to be registered?
 
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