My thoughts about writing minorities

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KingAlanI

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[FONT=&quot]Writing out of my element[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

I'm a straight white cis man. I do try to keep other perspectives in mind with my writing. It makes sense for a writer and an ally to do so.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]People often like and are inspired by works similar to them.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]These issues could be a subset of “write what you know”. Understanding the group better helps write about them well, whichever comes first. I often talk to friends, family and other writers; simply observing also makes sense. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]I worry about my ability to write other characters well. I don’t want to screw up by doing it badly. I don’t want to make well-meaning mistakes. I want to include it without forcing it in.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]I want to make them well-written characters in general and not overplay stereotypes. That includes making the character more than just a member of the minority in question. I don’t want to overcompensate by completely ignoring stereotypical behavior.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Secondary characters can end up being seen through the main character’s lens. This can be particularly problematic with a non-minority main character viewing others.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Respecting an inspiration can lead to carrying over some of its issues. For instance, a non-liberated society might be accurate for a historical setting.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]A setting with reversed roles is a striking way to make a point, although it can be too simplistic. Man bites dog, it's interesting because it's the opposite of what you'd expect. It isn’t necessary to go that far. Perhaps some elements of a more-regular setting can be reversed.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Although it’s not as much of a social issue, writers from a nondominant group might have trouble writing characters from the dominant group.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]I’m generally not actively trying to pass or fail the Bechdel test or non-gender variants thereof.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Sometimes anti-bigotry isn’t the point of the work, okay, but still, avoid overt bigotry.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Examples specific to alternate sexuality[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]I’m a straight guy who’s inexperienced enough at that, so I tread very carefully on other stuff. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]I want to write the emotional part similarly, but I’m not sure how much carries over. I don’t intend to go into detail with the sex. (“then it shouldn’t be too hard.” – Leyla Coffey)[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]I want to avoid straight male fetishization or other inaccurate portrayals of lesbianism. I don't know what's real or fake about porn in general, including lesbian porn. Also, I don’t want to overdo an association between tomboys and lesbians.[/FONT]
 

J.S.F.

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I think it's a noble thing to try and understand another POV no matter which sexual orientation it involves. It's much harder for me to understand the idea of a gay/lesbian/transgendered (see my other thread) because I'm also a straight white dude, and when I first got the idea of writing a lesbian character, my older sister's advice was as follows:

--Don't make assumptions that the character is going to act a certain way just because she is a lesbian. So, I wrote my MC as a young lady, an everyday, ordinary teenager who's just come out and has to deal with the issues that some of her classmates pose. Some of them, not everyone. Her friends are supportive as are her parents and that's a cool thing. She's a very shy person by nature, but learns about getting tough when she has to and matures along the way when she meets the love of her life.

--Avoid stereotypes. Truthfully, I didn't really know how many stereotypes of lesbians were around. I had to check on various websites. I'd seen them in the movies--the image that some straight men (and I guess, some straight women) had of them, with short hair, tough, into leather, acting very butch--and I thought that stereotype totally ridiculous.

Who says a lesbian character has to be that way? Just the writer's way of making her more colorful? I suppose there are some women who are like that, but there are also probably some straight women who dress and/or act like that as well. I don't know, but I had my MC dress in jeans and blouses and T-shirts just like everyone else. Not girly per se, just average. And that's the image I gave her, an average girl thrust into a very un-average situation which helps her grow mentally and spiritually.

--Be honest. By that, my sister meant write the situations honestly, in that if 'A' does something, what would 'B' do or say and how would they react? I wanted my MC to be that kind of person who would react honestly and find it within herself to act when necessary.

This is by no means a comprehensive post, just my ideas as well as my sister's. I hope to learn more along the way.
 
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KingAlanI

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Sounds like some of the same thoughts I had, with a lesbian-specific example. (I tried to make my post more generalized)
 

J.S.F.

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Sounds like some of the same thoughts I had, with a lesbian-specific example. (I tried to make my post more generalized)
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To be honest, I don't know if I'm right or wrong, but these are my opinions. I would not write a stereotype about someone who is black or Asian, so it also wouldn't make sense to write a stereotype about someone of the same-sex orientation. I think we've seen enough examples of how a same-sex group is portrayed...and many times, those portrayals gave in to the stereotype.

I didn't want to go that route. I simply wrote my main character as someone who happens to like the same sex--women--and let the story play out. It worked--it'll be published next year, and I have hopes for the sequels. (It's a trilogy).
 

Barbara R.

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Your sister was right; sexual orientation determines who you want to sleep with, not vote for. I made the mistake once of assuming that a gay friend of mine would be thrilled when gay marriage passed in NY. Turns out he disapproved...as a Catholic!

I have gay characters in my fiction, though I'm straight. I've also had black and Latino MC's even though I'm white. It's our job to inhabit our characters and see the world through their eyes, and I've learned a lot from that. But mostly I've learned that our differences are minor compared to our similarities.

Personally I find it helpful, when creating a character who's very different from me, to start with what we have in common.
 

RemaCaracappa

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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]I want to avoid straight male fetishization or other inaccurate portrayals of lesbianism. I don't know what's real or fake about porn in general, including lesbian porn. Also, I don’t want to overdo an association between tomboys and lesbians.[/FONT]


I know you're not exactly asking about porn, but I think this article is definitely of some relevance here, especially with respect to the question of accurate portrayal versus fetishization.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rachelrabbitwhite/what-is-feminist-porn?
 

Mara

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Of course, in the process of avoiding stereotyping, it's also important to try not to totally erase groups of people to make the whole subculture more palatable to non-minority members. Which makes everything more complicated.

Butch lesbians are a minority, but they do exist and one concern in the lesbian community is that they're often either completely ignored in mainstream media or they're ultra-stereotyped. Which means there's a good middle ground somewhere, but it's hard to find and there's _always_ going to be someone somewhere who finds fault with it. The key is to try to balance things out and get most lesbians to be okay with it.

All lesbians shouldn't be butch. All lesbians shouldn't be easily classified as butch or femme. All lesbian couples shouldn't include a butch-femme dichotomy. But some lesbians should be butch, some should strongly identify as butch or femme, and some couples include a butch-femme dichotomy.

That doesn't mean that every novel has to cover every possibility and be a bingo list of inclusion (which is often the accusation leveled against those of us who want more inclusion by people who don't want more minority visibility in media.) Most of the problems with stereotyping aren't just, "this one novel doesn't have enough diversity" but rather, "this entire genre doesn't have enough diversity."

In a book with one lesbian character, butch/femme/variable/I-don't-care-about-labels expression are all valid possibilities. An individual lesbian could be any of those. It's only a problem when every book with one lesbian character has the same stereotype, or when a book with twenty lesbian characters portrays them all the same, or whatever. I mean, there really are men who fit the "straight woman's supportive gay best friend" stereotype and one character like that is believable, but I've seen them in the last few urban fantasies I've read and it's starting to get irritating.

So, there's no easy solution or simple answer. The best suggestion I can give is to find out what many members of the minority group in question think of current portrayals in books similar to yours and what's been neglected, and then try to cover some of the neglected areas. Of course, there's always disagreement within the zillions of often barely-connected communities that make up any minority group (and not all minority groups even have "community"), so there's no easy answer there, either.

Here's the way I rank portrayal of the groups I'm part of:

Worst: Negative stereotyping of everyone.

Bad: Mindless stereotyping that's not negative, but is still irritating, uncreative, and often problematic. Stereotyping is based on an outsider's understanding of the situation.

Neutral: [Minority status] doesn't matter at all for _anyone_. For example, _all_ gay characters are presented exactly as straight characters and _all_ gay relationships are presented exactly as straight relationships.

Good: A little nuance. Minority status matters, but differently to different people, and while some people do touch on stereotypes a little, they're presented as full characters, and not everyone fits the stereotype. Also, the stereotypes aren't always the majority's idea of stereotypes, but often are based on the community's internal stereotypes. (Trans people stereotype each other, playfully or maliciously, but I've never seen _any_ of those stereotypes in mainstream media. The middle-class white lesbian transsexual woman who plays tabletop role-playing games and is good with computers is a stereotype with a basis in reality, but I've never, ever seen it mentioned in written form.)

This is never going to be perfect, and it takes research to pull it off. But even doing a little research and mixing up just a little goes a _long_ way to being more inclusive. :)
 

J.S.F.

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Dammit, Lindsay (in Lindsay versus the Marauders) happens to be good at swimming and computers. :D

I'm not changing it, though, as her knowledge of computers is essential to a plot point.

Nice post, Mara. Something for me to keep in mind.
 

slhuang

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What Mara said.

I'll highlight two things I find important:

1) Please, please, please make sure your minority characters have goals and motivations that are unrelated to their minority status. (Sure, their minority status can affect their lives to a certain degree, even to a great degree depending on setting, but they should also have other concerns and other driving forces. Like getting the love interest, or earning a promotion, or taking down the bad guy, or proving themselves to their parents, or saving the world, or any of the other things book characters usually worry about.)

2) The more diversity you have, the less likely any one of your characters will be considered a token. The more you "normalize" a diverse world within your book, the more your characters will be seen as individuals rather than as trying to be representative of what you think of an entire demographic.
 

KingAlanI

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[FONT=&quot]I want to avoid straight male fetishization or other inaccurate portrayals of lesbianism. I don't know what's real or fake about porn in general, including lesbian porn. Also, I don’t want to overdo an association between tomboys and lesbians.[/FONT]
I know you're not exactly asking about porn, but I think this article is definitely of some relevance here, especially with respect to the question of accurate portrayal versus fetishization.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rachelrabbitwhite/what-is-feminist-porn?

True, that comment wasn't exactly about porn. I don't want nonsexual writing or classy sex scenes to seem trashy because I invoked porn stereotypes.

Good article but I don't really see the relevance.
 

KingAlanI

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@Mara:
As I said, "I don’t want to overcompensate by completely ignoring stereotypical behavior." Your line "it's also important to try not to totally erase groups of people to make the whole subculture more palatable to non-minority members." sounds like an example of why that's important. I summarized that line as "It’s important to avoid totally erasing a stereotype to make a whole subculture more palatable to non-minorities."

Then you give butch lesbians as an example. I did say "Also, I don’t want to overdo an association between tomboys and lesbians." How about "I don't want to overdo tomboy-lesbian association or overuse the butch stereotype, but I want to recognize that exists to some extent." In general, part of my motivation for writing minority characters/issues is simply to reflect reality.

The two F/F pairings I’ve written so far are a middle-class white with a poor nonwhite, adding class and race issues. (one a femme and one a tomboy, by the way)

I do avoid 'worst' and 'bad' portrayals of minorities, but I do write 'neutral' instead of 'good' to some extent.

@slhuang:

Re 1) I said "I want to make them well-written characters in general...That includes making the character more than just a member of the minority in question." so I'm already aware of that issue. :)

Re 2) Do you mean many members of a particular minority, members of many different minorities, or both? And what about characters that are members of multiple minorities?

PS
I said "I don’t intend to go into detail with the sex." On second thought, I do carry over some of what I've written with non-penetrative straight sex.
 

Roxxsmom

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Of course, in the process of avoiding stereotyping, it's also important to try not to totally erase groups of people to make the whole subculture more palatable to non-minority members. Which makes everything more complicated.

This is a very good point and post, and it's gotten me thinking about the connection to tokenism and the "binder full of [insert minority group] mindset." If a writer has one character from a given minority in his or her novel and that character embodies one or more obvious stereotypes (even if it's not necessarily negative in isolation), people are more likely to get upset than if the writer has several characters, and they fall across a spectrum.

Of course, there are going to only be so many deeply drawn characters of any sex, orientation or persuasion in a given novel. I'm thinking that the relative invisibility of non straight, non white (and in some genres), non male characters across the larger body of written work is the problem, really. When a writer has a character who is of a different persuasion from him or herself, and that persuasion has been greatly under-represented in his/her chosen genre, the writer is more likely to feel pressured to create some sort of "ideal medium" character who will offend no one. But even attempting to avoid stereotypes can be alienating to people who actually do encompass some of those traits in themselves.

The only thing I can think is to write all characters as complex and multifaceted people who is internally consistent and sympathetic/relatable.

Good: A little nuance. Minority status matters, but differently to different people, and while some people do touch on stereotypes a little, they're presented as full characters, and not everyone fits the stereotype. Also, the stereotypes aren't always the majority's idea of stereotypes, but often are based on the community's internal stereotypes. (Trans people stereotype each other, playfully or maliciously, but I've never seen _any_ of those stereotypes in mainstream media. The middle-class white lesbian transsexual woman who plays tabletop role-playing games and is good with computers is a stereotype with a basis in reality, but I've never, ever seen it mentioned in written form.)

This is never going to be perfect, and it takes research to pull it off. But even doing a little research and mixing up just a little goes a _long_ way to being more inclusive. :)

This is what I've aimed for in the world building in the novels I'm working on, so I'm glad to see that it can work. Whether I've achieved what I've aimed for is another matter entirely, of course.
 
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KingAlanI

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Game Of Thrones gender example for using but not abusing stereotypes

I noticed a Game of Thrones example/analogy relating to something Mara seems to be talking about.

I always felt GRRM did a great job of writing several strong female characters within a misogynistic setting. Some of them are more traditional, like Catelyn the devoted wife and mother, but they’re great in and of themselves and they exist amongst many nontraditional characters.
 
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