Hemlock Grove

Gru'ud

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Anyone else watching this? It’s a new one hour series made by and running on Netflix. Fair warning, definitely an “R” rating.

It has its interesting moments, but I’m reserving final judgment until I watch the last four episodes.
 

shelleyo

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I've only watched the first episode so far, but it seems promising.

I did enjoy House of Cards, their original political drama with Kevin Spacey. One of the best shows I've ever seen. Seems like they know what they're doing.
 

CrastersBabies

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I was waiting for a thread to pop up here. I'm reading mixed reviews, but, they're not off-putting (if that makes sense).

I'll be starting it soon.
 

Gru'ud

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I think the review was reasonably fair. Having invested 9 episodes of my time in it over the last few days (rainy weekend), I’m determined to make it through to the end though.

I think what I’ll add is that when the show is good it’s better than the review gives it credit for, but then it will have these occasional scenes where you’re thinking “WTF was that for”?

Heh, and the mirrored smoke images that frame the opening credits are absolutely awesome, if you look really closely.
 

amamoth

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AV Club has a very spoilery and scathing review of the entire season here.

I couldn't finish the first episode. I could've stomached the bad acting, weird pacing, and cringeworthy, expository dialogue, but something about it seemed very male gaze-y to me and if I have to work to enjoy something that's obviously designed to cater against me, well, I have other things to do. FWIW, the AVC review seems to confirm my suspicions.

Also, it was just really boring.
 

BarbaraSheridan

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I started watching this yesterday. I think I have about 5 more eps to go.

It's odd, yet strangely addicting.

EDIT: Finished watching last night. I liked it enough to come back for more. Hopefully there will be more. Enough to tie up things that weren't entirely resolved.
 
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JohnnyGottaKeyboard

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We watched the first two episodes tonight. We were both appalled by how terrible it was--and on so many levels: script, acting, and, my god, the production quality. And we both kept wondering why Famke Jannsen was talking that way.

So, anyway, after watching, I read the season review linked above (AVC). If the two guys are never actually gonna do it, I guess I won't waste any more time on it.
 

shelleyo

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I posted after watching one episode that it seemed promising. I've watched through episode 3 now, all watched the day after I posted, and though I do intend to watch the rest I'm not as excited about finding time for it as I'd hoped.

Famke Janssen's accent alone is mystifying. No one thought maybe she should do it with some consistency? It changes two or three times in a single sentence. She's too experienced for this, which makes me wonder if at some point down the line it'll turn out that it's not the actress but the character slipping an accent for some reason, such as perhaps she's not who she claims. Or something.

That's just wishful thinking, though. There'd be hints early on so as not to confuse the audience. No one would let that go on in the hopes that people would think oh, it's not the actress doing a shitty job, it's foreshadowing.

That's only one of the things that bothers me. Several things I think they were foolish not to fix and do better. I'm still curious enough to watch the rest, but I'm not making time for it the way I did for the last several episodes of House of Cards. Now that's an amazing show.
 

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I've only watched the first episode so far, but it seems promising.

I did enjoy House of Cards, their original political drama with Kevin Spacey. One of the best shows I've ever seen. Seems like they know what they're doing.
Original?
Wasn't it an Americanized remake of the BBC production 'House of Cards', which was, in turn, an adaptation of a novel by Michael Dobbs?
Or is there a different standard of 'original' for on-line shows? (Not sarcasm, this might be a matter of terminology, like a TV episode being listed as 'new' when it really means 'new to this channel or network'.
 
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shelleyo

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Original?
Wasn't it an Americanized remake of the BBC production 'House of Cards', which was, in turn, an adaptation of a novel by Michael Dobbs?
Or is there a different standard of 'original' for on-line shows? (Not sarcasm, this might be a matter of terminology, like a TV episode being listed as 'new' when it really means 'new to this channel or network'.

It's considered a Netflix original series because they produced it rather than leased the rights from somewhere else.
 

Diem_Allen

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I have watched the full season and I can honestly say that as bad as it seems the book was even worse. If you are interested in it watch the series avoid the book.
 

kyocrisis

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Finished all but the last 2 episodes so far, I like it.

The show definitely has its bad moments, but it is strangely addicting and I like the mythos behind it.

As far as the production quality, I prefer it to a lot of "network" shows, that constantly abuse shaky camera and rapid close up cutaways to make a show seem more "realistic." Better story line too than most stuff on TV
 

shelleyo

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I've watched the entire season of Hemlock Grove now, finished last night. Here's my spoiler-free review, which is naturally all my opinion and not a statement of how anyone else should feel about the show.

It gets better when you get up to around episode 8 or so. I binge-watched the last 4 or 5 episodes out of curiosity to find out who was the vargulf and what was going to happen next.

I'll admit that I had no clue about the identity of the vargulf. That surprised me. And disappointed me, at first. But the more I thought about it, the more it made sense.

There were no real surprises aside from that, except perhaps who they chose to kill off and some small details about Olivia.

Throughout the whole series, the only people I actually enjoyed watching because their acting seemed good as compared to everyone else's were the people playing Sheriff Sworn, Norman Godfrey, Norman's wife and Dr. Pryce. The actress playing Peter's mom was good, I think, though I can't decide if that character's one-note laidback attitude was her fault or the writers'. Probably the writers'. The best moments were the highly emotional moments, mostly in the last few episodes. I was brought to tears a couple of times when there were certain deaths because the reactions of the grieving seemed so genuine. You'll know those moments when you hit them. Best moments in the show, which seemed, for the most part, greatly lacking in real emotion.

In fact, I almost felt like I liked the show in the ending episodes, and I think that was mostly because they actually made me feel something. I mostly couldn't have cared less about any of them until we were nearing the end.

I kind of got into the way Famke Janssen played Olivia as we neared the end, but I still think someone should have done something about that incredibly terrible accent-that's-there-only-sometimes.

I don't want to spoil anyone, but the best acting in the series came in the last few episodes when a couple of people faced incredible losses. If the whole series could have been like that, I could recommend it to people. As it is, I'm about 2.5 stars out of 5, leaning down toward 2. The acting, truly, so, so bad from people who should be much better.

Every time Letha and Peter were alone on screen, I considering giving up on the damn thing, for instance. Oh my god.

There were some moments throughout that were very, very good. It was as if a different writer wrote that dialogue and had a real feel for the characters. Those were brief. Then we went back to dialogue exchanges with lines that seemed to have little to do with one another. And characters would often be filled with rage and hatred toward someone one minute, but be friends again by the next episode, all without good reason.

If they make a second season, I'll probably watch at least the first episode to see where they go from the rather strange ending. They did intend on a second when they ended it, that much is clear.

I think I'd like to give the book it's based on a try to see if it's any better. It could be a good book that they turned into this unnecessarily slow, poorly-acted show that often tried so hard to be mysterious that it sometimes became overly-obscure and dense instead of just intriguing.

If you love horror and you've got nothing better to do, give it a shot. It picks up in the last third of the season, but not as much as it should have. Chances are that, if you're a huge horror buff, you'll feel mostly cheated in the end that there wasn't more to it all.
 
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frimble3

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It's considered a Netflix original series because they produced it rather than leased the rights from somewhere else.
Okay, that makes sense, this version is original, because they did it themselves. Thank you.
 

dragonjax

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Watched all the episodes. And I can honestly say that I'm pissed at myself for bothering. Massive spoilers ahead; don't read if you want to watch the show (or, I assume, read the book). Usually, I don't post ranty posts - and not to this degree - but I've got to get this out. I feel like I have to shower or something, because UGH.

What a misogynistic piece of crap this was. Almost every single female teen character with speaking lines was killed. The only one who wasn't that I can think of was raped. Fantastic.

Sure, wahoo, the killer was a female character. Dandy. But she killed all the other female teens because...why, exactly? Jealousy? Desire? It's not clear. Yeah, I can see why she killed the mean-girl twins. But the others? I think the most insulting thing about this is how in-your-face the sex-crime aspect was. She ate them "snatch first," as the Werewolf Whisperer Dr. Chasseur said, and when she's confessing to Peter that yep, she's the killer, she says how the turn feels like what it must feel like to come. UGH.

(And the reason why she chose to become a werewolf? She wanted her own story to tell? PUHLEASE. Girl was maybe 15. She's not allowed to be so damn world weary at 15. [And why the fuck did her hair turn back to brunette after she died? No, really - why?] Anyway.)

And it's not just the killer who killed the teen girls. The sheriff shot (maybe killed) the mute monster Shelley -- after Shelley killed the killer. Letha dies in childbirth because of course she does.

The women aren't safe, either. Dr. Chausseur is skinned alive and has her neck broken by Olivia because...um, why, again? Because the doc had captured Peter and...? Oh, wait, let me not bother trying to figure out plot or motive or conflict or goal, because my brain will hurt. Olivia is killed by her own son. Yippee.

Letha's mom gets to live - abandoned by her husband, after the death of her only child.

Peter's mom Lynda is alive and pretty much untouched. Ditto Peter's cousin Destiny. I don't know what purpose Lynda served. As for Destiny, she's the goddess/whore, so I suppose it's considered ironic that she lived while all the virgins died. Whatever.

I guess there's also Letha's baby. (Except the baby, according to Dr. Pryce, had died -- at least, it's insinuated when he says he'd have "better luck with the baby" to bring her back to life, because he can't bring Letha back because "she's too old." But the baby was alive and well in Olivia's attic. Somehow.) Whether Roman killed her like Olivia wanted him to, abandoned her, or forgot about her isn't said. Again, whatever.

What disgusts me even more that all of the above - and believe me, I'm plenty disgusted - is one of the two protagonists is a multiple rapist. What does he get for his crimes? A fucking fortune, as well as vampiric abilities - without, apparently, any downside.

And the utterly useless other protagonist shaved his head in some symbolic gesture or other and ran away with his mom. He's a cat killer, so no sympathy for him either.


Ugh. Just ugh.

There is not one redeeming thing about this show I can think of.
 

shelleyo

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Watched all the episodes. And I can honestly say that I'm pissed at myself for bothering. Massive spoilers ahead; don't read if you want to watch the show (or, I assume, read the book). Usually, I don't post ranty posts - and not to this degree - but I've got to get this out. I feel like I have to shower or something, because UGH.

I find this fascinating, because I didn't have this reaction to Hemlock Grove. Yet Top of the Lake, a critically-acclaimed miniseries recently aired on Sundance that I expected to LOVE, made me feel this way. I'll put my thoughts in white for those that don't want to be spoiled. I wonder if it's the fact that Hemlock is fantasy and not real but Top of the Lake is supposed to be reality that causes my different reactions.

In Top of the Lake (and I've only made it 3 eps in because I so seriously hate it), every female character has either been raped, abused, cheated on or somehow done wrong by a male. Not just men, can't just be men, also has to be males of other species as is evidenced by one character's upset at abuse by her companion male MONKEY. And every male is either a rapist, abuser or someone who so seriously disrespects females that the rape of a 12-year-old is just no big deal and women should stay in the kitchen where they belong anyway.

I found this show was beating me over the head with women-victims/males of any species-perpetrators, like a neon sign flashing MISOGYNY EXISTS. It needs a subtitle that says, "Pick a side, vic or perp, because clearly everyone is one or the either." I find it sexist against everyone--everyone.

I expected to love it. Jane Campion of The Piano, which is my favorite movie. Holly Hunter! David Wenham! Instead, I doubt if I finish watching because I've fallen into offended hate with it.

I haven't had as strong a reaction to Hemlock, perhaps because of the fantasy aspect and perhaps because I had real expectations of greatness from Top of the Lake. But I do see things a little differently than you.

I tend to think that Shelley probably isn't dead, and Olivia probably isn't either. She's a vampire who got shot and lived. I can't see how what Roman did to her is so much worse as to be fatal. I suspect she just needs some blood or something.

I also thought Roman was a "bad guy" from the beginning, so finding out that he raped Letha (clearly without remembering it, which does give him a little sympathy) wasn't a shock. He was also clearly a vampire all along, it wasn't something he got as a reward for his bad deeds.

Olivia, in fact, seemed to be pulling a lot of strings all throughout. And yeah, Destiny surviving while the virgins died is just about opposite of most misogynistic fare where the whores die but the virgin saves the day.

Hemlock has a ton of flaws, though. Not saying it doesn't. And I'm not arguing with your opinion or anything. I'm just surprised that you feel the same way about this as I do about Top of the Lake, but misogyny in Hemlock never really occurred to me.
 

dragonjax

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I find this fascinating, because I didn't have this reaction to Hemlock Grove. Yet Top of the Lake, a critically-acclaimed miniseries recently aired on Sundance that I expected to LOVE, made me feel this way. I'll put my thoughts in white for those that don't want to be spoiled. I wonder if it's the fact that Hemlock is fantasy and not real but Top of the Lake is supposed to be reality that causes my different reactions.

Wow - now I'm both sort of curious about LAKE and rather sure I shouldn't see it. At the very least, I should wait before seeing it. I'm sorry you felt The Hate when you were watching it; boy, that's such an upsetting, all-encompassing feeling.

HG spoiler comments:

Yeah, I'm sure Shelley isn't dead, but she was still shot by a male police officer. Check in the misogyny column.

And I'm sure Olivia will return. But she was still attacked/supposedly killed by Roman - who French kissed her and ripped out her tongue. Very ew. And another check in the misogyny column.

As for Roman not remembering he raped Letha, yeah - but he knowingly raped Valentine (the girl in school). Massive check in the misogyny column. I don't care that he's a vampire/upir. I don't care that he was in a coma after. It hit me as wrong, wrong, wrong.

I'm not trying to convince you, I promise! :) I'm still, apparently, filled with The Rage. I'm glad you didn't feel the same way about HG, because I wouldn't wish this feeling on anyone.
 

shelleyo

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I totally understand where you're coming from in regards to Hemlock, I do--I'm just sort of mystified that it didn't strike me the same way after the way Top of the Lake did.

Top of the Lake was something I looked forward to for such a long time--I'm a huge, huge David Wenham fan, love Jane Campion, love Holly Hunter. Imagine my surprise when my stomach soured. If it were just some of the characters, but it's an entire region and we're expected to believe that everyone is one or the other. It gave me the same kind of bleak feeling that Winter's Bone did, very similar, but then it got worse.

Top of the Lake has been nominated for a bunch of things. Several actors have been noted for their roles in Critic's Choice and another industry award, and I expect it'll be a big one next year during award season. I suppose because it's trying to make statements about these things, and because bad things do happen to the bad people (that's a guess based on similar films, still on ep3). But it struck me as so heavy-handed and false, and put me off within the first episode. I don't know. If you ever watch it, I'd be interested in your opinion.
 

shelleyo

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If it's on Netflix instant streaming, I'll check it out, just to see if I have a similar reaction. :)

It's on Netflix! I don't know whether to suggest you wait until you're in a good mood so that it doesn't bring you too low, or suggest that you're not so it doesn't ruin your mood. I felt like a wet burlap sack of gravel after every episode. :\ Maybe it improves near the end.