Am I being paranoid?

Princess Marina · May 17, 2013

Parametric said:
How can I put this gently? The first draft of your first ever novel probably has a lot of value to you personally, but may not yet be the kind of breathtaking masterpiece that people would be falling over themselves to steal.

I beta read and proof read for others. Some of them are first timers, some are much more skilled. Some are hard work and some are a joy to read. I have never been tempted to borrow as much as one sentence from them. It is their work. My writing may be better or worse than theirs, but it is mine.

My ideas, my story, my words. You might write it better but I'm proud of being able to produce my own writing, whether anyone likes it or not. So, yes, you are being paranoid but I always make sure I have a name or pen name on my work before I send it to even a relative or friend. If someone tried to steal my stuff I have notes, computer files, drafts etc. which would soon prove the plagiarism, so no I'm not worried sending stuff out to be beta read.

jaksen · May 17, 2013

Just want to point out that a beta is not 100% absolutely necessary.

And if you really need one, why not just one?

My only beta reads for grammar and spelling - he daren't touch the storyline. He daren't or he sleeps on the floor.

quicklime · May 17, 2013

my backup system: All work goes on a shared drive, anything I'm tits-deep in may also get saved periodically as a sent document.

Betas....I don't have any, will have my wife beta and possibly call in a few favors from folks who I've read for if I feel I should....but I can't see having more than two or three. If you can't find enough competency in 2 or three to cover all the things you need covered, I would be wondering if I needed better betas (quick example: my wife is unsparing--if she thinks the MC is a loathesome prick, the love angle is messed up, or whatever else, she would tell me. And she'd spot redundant words, misspellings, etc. I could ask someone else here to look for overly heavy theme, grammar, etc. That's 2. How many more would I want to read their crits, ask them to do the work, etc? Before long it would dilute the impact of what any of them had to say...)

JRehnay · May 17, 2013

I think you're being pretty paranoid, but at the same time I understand your fear. You're not experienced in the publishing world and so you're taking the "better safe than sorry" approach, I think.

I only hope that your "trusted friends" are not offended by your threats and warnings. I would think they'd be honored (and happy) to help hold onto a safe copy of your manuscript--or to read it, if they're allowed. I mean, they're your FRIENDS, right?

Marian Perera · May 17, 2013

I nearly always send my manuscripts to a friend whom I've known for over ten years, but when I finished my most recent one he was in the middle of his thesis. I could have waited, but I knew the manuscript was sound, and I sent it off. Got an acceptance, too.

I'll probably be more patient next time, because there's absolutely no harm in waiting or getting a second opinion from someone you trust, but sometimes you just know when something works exactly as you intended it to work, and then you go with your instincts.

James D. Macdonald · May 17, 2013

Torgo said:
I have literally never heard of anyone passing off an unpublished manuscript by another writer as their own. Anyone?

Yes. The Death in the Spirit House fiasco. But that struck me as a case of a collaboration gone horribly wrong rather than ... anything else. And it featured unique circumstances which you just aren't going to see in the usual beta process, or in submitting your work to agents and/or editors.

The things you usually see plagiarized are already-published works. An unpublished manuscript has literally no value.

Terie · May 17, 2013

Torgo said:
Oh, what happened? I did have a vague inkling that something unfortunate had occurred...

Sorry, but although there was no gag order in the settlement, I've chosen not to be public about the details.

shakeysix · May 17, 2013

Dear W. Coven, put your mind at ease. Post a page or two of your novel on SYW. In no time at all you will find the true value of your golden words! --s6

jjdebenedictis · May 17, 2013

As others have said, your fear is pretty unfounded.

However, sometimes you just need to enable your neuroses and do whatever is necessary to ease your anxiety.

My advice would be to--instead of having friends hold onto physical copies--keep your old drafts, i.e. when you start doing an editing pass on your manuscript, save a new copy of the file and then do the edits on it instead of on the original. Stick your old version of the manuscript somewhere on your hard drive (and back it up, because you should be doing that to all your files anyway.)

Then, if anything happens, you'll be able to show the court a progression of rough drafts that prove you developed that book over time. The thief, however, wouldn't be able to show the court anything except the final version. It would be pretty damning evidence, and you'd likely win your case.

Also, hang onto your notebooks, i.e. the places where you scribble ideas. A hand-written laboratory notebook is admissible in a court of law. So is a diary. It shows that the person who wrote it worked on the document over time, and that's persuasive. Keeping your notebooks would also be persuasive. Again, it's something the thief wouldn't be able to provide.

Finally, start making a habit of signing and dating the top of every page in your notebooks. That makes your record of work even more persuasive as evidence.

BenPanced · May 17, 2013

If you're going to have to work at getting it submitted to agents, and then to publishers and then get it published, blah blah blah, how's it going to be any easier for the next guy who hasn't been published but decides to steal to your manuscript and put your name on it?

Mare · May 17, 2013

Bufty said:
It definitely is paranoid.

Ideas are not worth a hoot. They are ten thousand a penny.

It's the execution of the idea that is important.

And the chances of anyone stealing your manuscript and publishing/passing it off as their own are remote- even remoter is the possibility they make any money out of it.

Thieves want easy money with no related work and thieving ideas or stories or unpublished manuscripts does not fill that requirement.

Bufty—that makes such good sense. If another 'writer' can't write their own story, would they know what to do with yours? ( To make money. )

Nononana · May 17, 2013

I think the backing up is smart from a technology standpoint (I back up my work on an external drive). I mean, can you imagine losing your novel? I think I would jump out of a window. As others mentioned, the odds of someone taking a first draft of a novel is so low. Just think of how hard it is to get pubbed or make money from completed manuscripts. Thieves look for easy money.

I will say I read something recently about a poet who was flat out submitting other poet's works into anthologies (as his own) and getting them pubbed. Of course, he was eventually outed, but it was shocking how long he was able to get away with it.

As far as friends beta-ing: I just finished my first novel and had my two best friends beta. They were very direct. We actually sat for hours and went over the book chapter by chapter, which is something (I think) only best friends are willing to do. Some things were hard to hear. When I got over the butthurt, I went back and changed several things that made the story way better. Generally friends will sugarcoat things, but sometimes it is possible to have friends that will give it to you straight if you are nervous about sharing your work with "strangers."

WeaselFire · May 17, 2013

Wolf Coven said:
Question is, am I being a little too paranoid?

Yes.

Jeff

Kevin Nelson · May 17, 2013

JRehnay said:
I only hope that your "trusted friends" are not offended by your threats and warnings. I would think they'd be honored (and happy) to help hold onto a safe copy of your manuscript--or to read it, if they're allowed. I mean, they're your FRIENDS, right?

My advice to Wolf Coven would just be to phrase the request to the beta readers in some other way than a threat or a warning. Probably all that needs to be said is something like "This manuscript isn't ready for publication yet, so I'd appreciate it if you don't show it to anyone else."

NinjaFingers · May 17, 2013

I've honestly never found anyone whom I've shown an unfinished manuscript to who would react to "Please don't share it" with anything but "Duh." Most people do get it.

triceretops · May 17, 2013

Truth be told, I would not even worry about this when other considerations are more important. Concentrate on getting this done and polished then formulating a list of agents and/or publisher to which you will send it. The minute you began writing it was the minute you began copyrighting it.

tri

jpoelma13 · May 17, 2013

So you've got 11 different backups? That seems a bit excessive. I've never had a hard drive crash on me with data being irretrievable. I do have an extra hard drive in case my operating system crashes, which I could use to retrieve my story from the old drive, but I've never had to use it for that.

MacAllister · May 17, 2013

Torgo said:
I have literally never heard of anyone passing off an unpublished manuscript by another writer as their own. Anyone?

Nope. Never in circumstances like this.

*headdesk*

But unpublished noobs persist in believing it's A Thing.

It's frankly pretty insulting to the people who give their time to beta or crit.

Deleted member 42 · May 17, 2013

FAQ: Copyright

Buffysquirrel · May 18, 2013

Even tho I have encountered someone passing off someone else's unpublished work as their own, I think it's so vanishingly rare as not to be worth worrying about. So stop worrying about it.

kuwisdelu · May 18, 2013

No, it's a good idea to backup your work in case your computer dies.

...wait...you meant in case someone steals your story???

Yeah, you're being ridiculously paranoid, and it's not gonna happen.

thelittleprince · May 18, 2013

I agree that having a couple of different back ups of your work is important. I would probably have a breakdown if I lost it all.

But from newbie to newbie, I wouldn't worry so much about people "stealing" your work, particularly your friends. They more than likely have better things to do

Roxxsmom · May 19, 2013

Torgo said:
I have literally never heard of anyone passing off an unpublished manuscript by another writer as their own. Anyone?

I heard about someone doing this with a short story (nabbing one from a pw protected critiquing site and submitting it to a magazine as his own), but not with an entire novel. I believe the paper's original author sorted it out with the magazine and it was retracted. She later published it elsewhere.

Probably a more legitimate fear might be a well-meaning family member posting a portion something you've written to a non pw protected site (like their fb page or something) because they want to share how talented their niece or grandson or whatever is, thus screwing first publication rights. I'd think elderly relatives with boundary issues (because they think you're still a kid) would be most likely to do this. If you are sharing your work with friends or family, it's important that they know what's at stake, but in the end, you hopefully know whether or not they're trustworthy.

shakeysix · May 19, 2013

I might be 63 years old and think my adult nieces and nephews are still cute and cuddly but I would never post anything by anyone without first consulting that person. I cannot fathom anyone else my age doing that! Now I could see some ego maniac wannabee genius shooting himself/herself in the foot that way, but not some senile old fool! --s6

Becky Black · May 20, 2013

There is another side to this - not that someone could steal your idea or book, but that you could be accused of plagiarism. People sometimes send stuff, fanfic, or original works unsolicited to published writers, then later accuse the writer of stealing their idea when a future book from the writer supposedly uses that storyline. (Obviously a smart writer will not even glance at these unsolicited stories.)

Writers of a series have to be especially cautious about this. Terry Pratchett said years ago that fanfic is fine by him, as long as it's not left lying around where he can't avoid seeing it. Because an avid reader of the series could quite easily hit on a similar future development for a character to one TP himself was already working on. Which could mean he'd have to abandon the idea, even a partially written book.

If the writer can show they had notes and even drafts from before that person ever sent or posted their story they are in a better position to prove they were working on that idea already.

People could accuse a new writer of copying an existing book or movie or whatever. Again, if the writer can prove they already had that work underway before that book or movie ever came out, they're in a better position to defend themselves against the accusation.

Am I being paranoid?

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