Learning to Plot

When it comes to plotting, I try to let my characters and their actions determine the course of the story. The stuff that I see happening as I write tends to mirror facets of them, as if fate is pulling them into a great game, for better or worse.

My struggle is not with creating plot but with pacing it. Someone above mentioned they tend to plot periods of intense action followed by narrative lulls -- that's exactly right. I sometimes end up with: action, action, action, info dump, rinse and repeat. The challenge (for me) in editing is to integrate the info dumps and the character development into the action without diluting the intensity. Anyone else have this issue?

Plot line

I try to layout a linear timeline of events and characters that is encompassed by an ellipse that connects the points on the plot line.

An extremely visual approach that is heavily reinforced with outlines.

Sean,

I'm not sure how long your story is, but you can learn a lot about plotting by reading twist-heavy, tightly written short stories and novellas (mystery/thriller/horror). Certainly longer works in those fields also can help. Another trick I find useful is to outline; creating an outline virtually forces you to develop a plot. Good luck.

Sovermonter

I always find my best writing to have been dug out of my mind as I hit the keys of my laptop. The words have a habit of flowing out of my head, and flow they do; the act of creating fills me with positive energy, and I notice that the story before me seems to be building itself.

Linda Adams said:

On novel structure, I'd recommend reading The Marshall Plan for Novel Writing. It's written by an agent who reps fiction, and he gives a step-by-step outline of a novel. The outline might not work for you--didn't for me--but it'll give you an idea of where the subplots comes in, when the beginning should end, when the surprises (twists) should happen, etc.

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I just finished The Marshall Plan for Novel Writing and I thought it was very useful. Although it may seem a bit "formulaic" to some (per reviews that I read), I think the entire process helps a writer think out the plot and scenes a lot better than randomly writing things and then trying to connect them into a coherent story. I could see me using these techniques for my *next* story, but I don't think I would use it for my existing WIPs simply because it would be a major reboot to be able to apply them to what I have now.

BTW: I bought the book at a Goodwill for $10 - my first book on writing.

AnnieColleen said:

I don't think this has been mentioned: the posts on story structure at storyfix.com have helped me a lot. It has examples with commentary that are helpful, too.

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Thanks so much for this suggestion! I'm finding it very helpful myself.

Cornelius Gault said:

Although it may seem a bit "formulaic" to some (per reviews that I read), I think the entire process helps a writer think out the plot and scenes a lot better than randomly writing things and then trying to connect them into a coherent story.

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That's how I approach any writing how-tos and people wanting to wave their arms about it being 'formulaic'. Just because I'm studying the techniques, doesn't mean I'm going to slavishly follow it. But to see things listed out and put into some sort of context to broader story writing, it helps to see how things can flow together.

Which is why I also liked The Marshall Plan.

Escape Artist said:

Thanks so much for this suggestion! I'm finding it very helpful myself.

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His book Story Engineering was eye-opening for me, giving me a lot to think about in terms of the separate pieces that went into creating a whole. Especially the character chapters.

sovermonter said:

Sean,

I'm not sure how long your story is, but you can learn a lot about plotting by reading twist-heavy, tightly written short stories and novellas (mystery/thriller/horror). Certainly longer works in those fields also can help. Another trick I find useful is to outline; creating an outline virtually forces you to develop a plot. Good luck.

Sovermonter

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Great point. I'd add that I find it useful with outlining to allow the first, middle, and end to be guides, but the scenes in between need to be allowed flexibility. That's why it's nice to have good software that allows you to move stuff around as you like, particularly in the early stages.

I like Scrivener for outlining (and everything else).

Lyra Jean said:

I think I create interesting characters and I think interesting settings. Plot is a weak spot. My stories end up being predictable or sounding like a travelogue.

So this is the method I use. I base it on decisions my character has to make.

..snip...

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Interesting. According to the Aristotelian authors and editors I've known and read, this should be no problem for you. Ben Bova, SF writer and former editor of Analog Science Fiction/Science Fact has repeatedly stated that there is really only one way to write a story: create a believable protagonist with one major flaw. Create a situation in which the flaw makes your protagonist vulnerable. Show how your protagonist gets herself out of trouble.

Personally, I think it's just one method of many, but if your work is character-centric, this is probably where your plot should originate. If your plot is weak, perhaps your conflict is weak or your resolution is inadequately detailed.

One of the earlier posters in this thread discussed the need for surprise. I disagree. Thinking in terms of surprise creates non-sequiturs and deus ex machina endings. I think what you need is suspense. The difference is that surprise is when something completely unexpected happens. Suspense is when exactly what you expect happens but happens in an unexpected way, preferably when you least expect it.

This has been a very interesting read.

I may be one of the world's most useless people for something like this. I have been told I can be infuriatingly out of the norm on this. It's not as if I don't think about plot at all but...I also sort of leave it out of my mind when I write.
It works for me only cause of the way that my head works at writing a story just follows that natural line anyways that fits a plot.
I classify myself as a storyteller writer. I don't do genre. I don't really think about it. I just think of stories, so I range. I just think "what is the story? What happens? what really happens here? What's the truth in the story?". I do that, and I try to keep myself honest and out of the way of the story and it works.

for anybody that may be like me at all (and I kind of have a hard time thinking anybody else is as silly), then I try to just keep things simple. If you try too hard then all you've done is try to hard. There is no try, only do (Master Yoda). I just try to keep myself to the simple and important questions. What's the story? What's the truth? What happens? I honestly think if i tried to purposefully plot out a plotty path I'd just write some really awkward stuff. I do though find it helpful to read things like this and you know whatever book I run into with writers talking about writing to add to the toolbox in my head.
I just try not to look at the toolbox too directly.

I tend to find plotting easier and nearly automatic if the ending is clearly defined.

Once I have the ending set in stone, the characters can choose their way there.

Take longer than when I have a outline though , even if it is a short one.

I've tried developing thoughts at both ends of the spectrum. The first novel I ever wrote was so planned out there was no space to breathe. I couldn't imagine building a world or characters because I simply HAD to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible lest I forget where I was going with things! *gasp*
The second novel I wrote took the entirely opposite approach. I experienced the story with my character, having only the vaguest sense of where things might go.
In the end, both had potential but were far from a can't-put-downer.
For the novel I am now working on, I took a middle ground approach. I knew where I wanted the story to go, but I allowed room for the characters to make their own messes in getting there. It's certainly not the stuff of legends - yet. But I'm excited to apply some of the wisdom imparted in these posts, particularly bearing in mind that every good story has forward movement. Sometimes I cling too adamantly to stagnant scenes I think I like. Thanks everyone!

This week I learned, to my astonishment, that there is a how to write book by Ayn Rand, including quite a bit of commentary on plot and why people get stuck during writing. (It's not literally a book written by her, but rather an edited collection of lectures she gave. Title is The Art of Fiction.)

The way I plotted my book is a bit strange...
I wanted to incorporate things I love to pieces into my book (because what they say is true- write about what you love!);
Music, magic, kings queens princes and princess, dragons, your classical villain, betrayal, a plot twist at the end, a fantasy world...
I listed them all out on a piece of loose leaf- things I would love to write about.
Then, I drew lines. How would I work music into my story? Maybe it's something the princess loves.
After a couple of weeks, I had a [really] rough plot.
Then I just jumped in and started writing! As I went along, I made changes to the plot, both major and minor, as I got new ideas.
I guess my point is, I wouldn't write down a very detailed, definitive plot, because opinions will change! You won't look at your plot the same way three months from now, so why should you stick to something you don't like?

EclipsesMuse said:

i.e. the villain or antagonist:
What is their goal? Why do they want this goal?
How do they plan to do this?
Then, once I have that, how is the protagonist going to react to this?

More question come from that. The I usually do a short summary and an outline to lay everything out.

Of course, even with this I will turn around and redo 75% of everything after writing it. Like I'm doing now.

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I'm doing that right now. I had a new idea and am working it in chapters 1-7.

My Advice!

Sean Craven said:

Plot is my weakness, and I've decided to try and tackle it head-on. So I'm asking if anyone has any thoughts on how to learn about plotting.

I've joined a free class that Holly Lisle offers from her website, and I've gathered a stack of books. I'm starting my new story out as a collection of notes on needed scenes and story elements, and today I'm going to print them out and shuffle them about, rather than going through my usual process of simply writing it out and juggling it from there.

But if anyone has any thoughts on specific resources and techniques, I'd be grateful. Frankly, I think I have a lot of virtues as a writer, but without narrative drive, well. It's like having a bunch of chrome and no car.

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I have some advice, but each writer has to find his/her own methods. Some don't use the same techniques as others, and some have to invent their own! It depends on how you work, and the kind of person you are!

First, you need to decide how your plot is going to work. Will it be character driven? Or will it be plot driven? There is a difference between the two! (character driven is when the characters in the story drive the sequence of events, so for example, a mortal flaw of a character causes a chain of events to occur, hence creating the story itself. Plot driven is when the characters have NO SAY in what happens. It doesn't matter who is in the story, the events would still occur).

What you decide depends on what you should do next. If you feel plot should be character driven, develop your characters until you know every detail. Some individuals can create a basic profile and know the actions of the characters without writing it down too much detail, but some authors have to write fifteen page profiles. Once you understand your characters, put them all into your world and see what happens...and keep watching them until the story begins

If you feel the story should be plot driven, then focus mostly on what kinds of ideas and concepts you want to tell the audience. Do you want to portray, for example, heavily on the idea of sacrifice? Do you want to create a motif revolving around love? After deciding this, pinpoint exactly you wanna say and HOW you wanna say it From here, creating a plot line should be easier

I said all this because sometimes we walk right into the plot without looking at everything else in the story, like setting and characters, when in reality all of these concepts contribute to the plot. Therefore, the plot should be considered last. So my last final piece of advice is to make sure you know almost everything else about your story

Everything in a story is interconnected (that's what my professor always says in class).

Like I said, some people do this differently, this is just how I try to do it

Good luck writing! You can do it!

I think this is fantastic. Thank you.
A question: In my novel I have a man on the run because he overheard something he should not have from two nasty government figures. He knows, because he was warned in a mysterious phone call, that they are going to paint him badly in the press so the public will help them find him. Therefore, everyone is a potential danger to him. He needs a way to travel that will not put him at too much risk and he stumbles on the idea of using rivers to move around in Winter, after finding an abandoned boat in good repair and commandeering it.

In a way, the river becomes the thread for all the events that happen to him and his one trusty sidekick. Those events are what makes up the plot....Is that right? Each event, good or bad, leads him ever deeper towards his final goal of getting the truth out.

Have I got that right for my novel do you think?

sunandshadow said:

This week I learned, to my astonishment, that there is a how to write book by Ayn Rand, including quite a bit of commentary on plot and why people get stuck during writing. (It's not literally a book written by her, but rather an edited collection of lectures she gave. Title is The Art of Fiction.)

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I think you can get this is PDF on the web for free.
This may be useful also. I am listening to it now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4E9k_JtEK8

vicky271 said:

I said all this because sometimes we walk right into the plot without looking at everything else in the story, like setting and characters, when in reality all of these concepts contribute to the plot. Therefore, the plot should be considered last. So my last final piece of advice is to make sure you know almost everything else about your story

Everything in a story is interconnected (that's what my professor always says in class).

Like I said, some people do this differently, this is just how I try to do it

Good luck writing! You can do it!

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This is so true. I don't do any of the character profiles. I'm one of those ones that find out more about my characters as I continue. But I always have to go in and add those bits during the edit. It's a pain in the arse.

One time a writer friend and I were bouncing ideas off one another about a story of mine and she asked more detailed questions about a character. I told her I didn't know, because it wasn't important to the story. Her response was, "Well, you need to know. It might not get used, but it affects who he is." Or something like that. But it was an eye opener.

I totally Agree

chompers said:

This is so true. I don't do any of the character profiles. I'm one of those ones that find out more about my characters as I continue. But I always have to go in and add those bits during the edit. It's a pain in the arse.

One time a writer friend and I were bouncing ideas off one another about a story of mine and she asked more detailed questions about a character. I told her I didn't know, because it wasn't important to the story. Her response was, "Well, you need to know. It might not get used, but it affects who he is." Or something like that. But it was an eye opener.

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Its true. When you know everything about your character and a situation comes up, you will know not just how they will react, but any additional things they might do or say.

Or if your character were to be asked a question by someone else. Though I am not a fan, I think of the hunger games when Peeta tells Katniss that, though they came to know each other through the hunger games, he knows nothing about her...and then asks her what her favorite color is. If you know everything about your character, they will answer things like that right away and you can continue with the story. You never know when your character will ask questions like that since your characters are all their own person.

I know, personally, I have a hard time with either solutions. I have to see my character clearly before I can write a profile, but how can i write a profile if i know nothing? I've thought about writing random short stories will all my character to see what they would do, and then write the profile based on that.

But yeah, I totally agree with you

vicky271 said:

Its true. When you know everything about your character and a situation comes up, you will know not just how they will react, but any additional things they might do or say.

Or if your character were to be asked a question by someone else. Though I am not a fan, I think of the hunger games when Peeta tells Katniss that, though they came to know each other through the hunger games, he knows nothing about her...and then asks her what her favorite color is. If you know everything about your character, they will answer things like that right away and you can continue with the story. You never know when your character will ask questions like that since your characters are all their own person.

I know, personally, I have a hard time with either solutions. I have to see my character clearly before I can write a profile, but how can i write a profile if i know nothing? I've thought about writing random short stories will all my character to see what they would do, and then write the profile based on that.

But yeah, I totally agree with you

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Well, I have no problem with knowing things pertaining to their personalities. That just automatically comes to me as soon as a character pops up. It's more the background and backstory stuff that I don't know yet. Her question had been what was his job? Beats me. Haha.

I knew that he's an easy-going guy that likes to joke around. All I knew about his work was that he had just gotten a promotion to director. From that she knew that he had a serious side. She was right.

But it made me see that the littlest things shape a person. And especially the backstory has a large part in doing that. It usually dictates their motivations, so it's a good idea to know the backstory first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcmiqQ9NpPE

I will always pimp Dan Wells' talk on story structure, because it is simple, effective, and crosses genre. He gave a brilliant presentation on the elements of plot.

vicky271 said:

First, you need to decide how your plot is going to work. Will it be character driven? Or will it be plot driven? There is a difference between the two! (character driven is when the characters in the story drive the sequence of events, so for example, a mortal flaw of a character causes a chain of events to occur, hence creating the story itself. Plot driven is when the characters have NO SAY in what happens. It doesn't matter who is in the story, the events would still occur).

What you decide depends on what you should do next. If you feel plot should be character driven, develop your characters until you know every detail. Some individuals can create a basic profile and know the actions of the characters without writing it down too much detail, but some authors have to write fifteen page profiles. Once you understand your characters, put them all into your world and see what happens...and keep watching them until the story begins

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Need some focus here. In the great majority of genre literature, and even in a bit of literary work and Shakespeare, the antagonist effectively pushes the story forward. The screenplay or genre novel begins with a commercial premise, hopefully one that will sell. That is sometimes called a high-concept premise. The antagonist gets things going. The protagonist reacts and takes action. The plot progresses through a defined series of points.

In this context, the terms "plot driven" vs. "character driven" begin to have less meaning, and become less confusing. In a sense then, a considerable amount of plot is driven by a character, namely, the antagonist.

My recommendation is to stop trying to box the story into character or plot driven, and to instead focus on developing a great antagonist, protagonist, etc. in the context of a story premise that New York or Hollywood will want to buy. Chart the plot out from there. At least know clearly what your first major plot point is going to be, and your first major reversal.

What works for me

I always revert to my college process for writing papers when starting a new story. First, I get all my top of mind ideas down, typing as fast as I can and not worrying about order, or spelling, or anything other than getting the ideas down on paper. Then, from that I extract what I believe to be the main story line and the secondary story lines. I identify the main conflict, and how it will get resolved (subject to change while writing, of course). After I have all that on paper, I know what themes I need to touch on and I begin writing an actual outline of the book at the chapter level - again not being too concerned about anything but the ideas themselves. Sometimes some of the detail work happens at this stage, but most often these are really rough, covering only the basic events that take place.

Once I have about 50% of the story outlined, I start to write. I find that outlining the whole thing before I start writing means I end up redoing the outline about 10 times. Once I get a few chapters written, I go back over them, and then move back into outlining to see what I know now based on what I've written. My experience is that doing it this way helps me carry the key themes consistently through my story and lets me keep working (on outlines) when my brain is stuck on the narrative side.