Using a Flamethrower Indoors

Russell Secord · May 4, 2013

One way to get rid of a gaseous creature might be to create a vacuum, or at least an area of lower pressure, and pull it into a space that you could seal off.

For a related tactic, someone could reverse the A/C flow. If it's a heat pump, adjusting the thermostat to a higher setting would pump air out instead of in.

If it's alive, someone might find a compound that would kill or repel it. They'd have to come up with a way to spread the compound.

jkenton · May 4, 2013

A propane brush-burner might work, but it'll have a very, very short range compared to a flame thrower.

debirlfan · May 4, 2013

Instead of a flame thrower, perhaps your characters can use something that they find in the basement. As mentioned, maybe a fire extinguisher. How about cleaning chemicals? Bleach? Drain cleaner? Maybe they try throwing a couple things at it before they find something that works? Maybe something really unexpected - like the toner out of the copy machine?

Orianna2000 · May 5, 2013

They don't really have the opportunity to experiment with different things. They're locked in a fallout shelter, so they don't have access to anything in the rest of the basement. Once they open the door, they've only got a few seconds before the fog will enter and kill them all. They develop a vaccine that will prevent the fog from feeding on them, and that's what they're testing when they send a volunteer outside the bunker. Only one guy is going out to test it, so they only need to keep the fog at bay for a few seconds.

I can't believe I was so stupid as to think using a flamethrower indoors would work without killing everyone. Major brain fart, there.

A brush burner could definitely work, as it would have the short range necessary to not burn the building down. But I'm not sure why they would have one on hand. It's not a common weapon, and they're in a commercial office building, so I can't think of a reason they'd have one. I'll have to figure this out. I'm still leaning toward the fire extinguisher, if I can technobabble my way through it. It has to sound plausible enough to work. Like . . . it freezes the fog's base molecules, rendering it harmless for a few seconds until it thaws. That doesn't sound too bad.

kaitie · May 5, 2013

I think a torch could still possibly work if they're in an office building. As long as they have fuel of some sort, they could make one out of whatever's there. Break off a table leg and wrap a shirt around it, put some fuel from the generator on it and light. If they don't like fire, then the volunteer can hold the torch and the rest could stand back. The torch might be enough to keep them away from him while he goes through the doorway, and depending on the fuel it could go out pretty quickly, leaving him exposed on the other side.

Fire extinguisher would definitely be handy, though. There would definitely be one lying around, and it would give them a few seconds to break through.

jkenton · May 6, 2013

If the fallout shelter had been doubling as storage for the cleaning service or maybe landscaper, a brush-burner isn't that far out of the ballpark of reality. Leaf blowers, assorted cleaning products, obsolete office equipment. Even stuff shipped in from other sites that was just thrown into the shelter for lack of space elsewhere...

WeaselFire · May 6, 2013

Okay, flame throwers do two things. They shoot burning fuel which will stick/coat a surface and inginte it if flammable. They will also suck all the oxygen out of the room, which is why they are used and how they kill. Your people will die if they use one. They are NEVER used in an enclosed space, only outside it shooting into an enclosed space.

Burners, torches, gasoline in a toilet or whatever is not the same as a flame thrower. In those cases, you are igniting a flammable gas, not liquid. They do not provide fuel for igniting a fire unless held to a flammable object long enough for it to reach a combustible temperature for that object.

That said, you could use a natural gas or propane line as a "flame thrower" like weapon to dispel your fog. A brush-burner is a nozzle for this type of gas source that would work well. Provided your fog is susceptible to it.

Jeff

Orianna2000 · May 7, 2013

Jeff, aren't there flamethrowers that use propane gas instead of liquid fuel? I thought I read something about that. In any case, I've changed the scene so they only use the flamethrowers while outdoors, to keep the fog at bay while they retreat. When they're stuck in the basement, they use fire extinguishers to freeze the fog just long enough for the volunteer to rush out of the fallout shelter. I think it's feasible now.

Thanks for all the help, I appreciate it! If anyone has further comments, feel free to add them.

WeaselFire · May 7, 2013

Orianna2000 said:
Jeff, aren't there flamethrowers that use propane gas instead of liquid fuel?

They would be useless, the gas can't be propelled the same as a liquid. Which means the guy operating it would get fried.

There are plenty of propane flame devices, they just don't "throw" flame anywhere. The commercial ones are good to 10-15 feet, tops.

Jeff

Orianna2000 · May 7, 2013

So when Wikipedia says that most commercial and military flamethrowers today use propane instead of liquid fuel, does that mean they're all short-range? Or is there some extra gadget that makes the flame go further? I'm just curious at this point. It doesn't have much bearing in my story.

Hendo · May 7, 2013

Maybe try something simpler like cans of hairspray(or something similar) and a lighter? That would give you the shorter flame distance you're looking for.

EMaree · May 8, 2013

Hendo said:
Maybe try something simpler like cans of hairspray(or something similar) and a lighter? That would give you the shorter flame distance you're looking for.

Alternatively, if anyone in your office has an interest in cooking/works part-time in a restaurant/is a chef/has an upcoming birthday or dinner party etc etc then the might own a kitchen flamethrower (used for creme brulees etc). Or, if they're on a budget and frustrated by the shoddy quality of a lot of kitchen flamethrowers they might just go for the more powerful and more reliable gas blow torch -- these things are standard in a lot of UK restaurants and quite a few kitchens.

It's the kind of thing I could see a chef or enthusiast accidentally leaving in his car boot when he goes to work.

shaldna · May 8, 2013

blacbird said:
I'll hazard an opinion:

NO.

Flamethrowers don't throw flame. They spurt ignited liquid fuel.

caw

This. There is no way to stop that liquid hitting something - be it the floor or walls or whatever - it's what makes them such devestating and effect means of clearance.

I would check out some videos online to see what sort of reach and range they have.

You might always want to check out some of the horrible stories about people who have used them indoors - I remember there was a guy who attacked kids in a school classroom with a homemade one - can't remember the name of the school though, but I'm sure a quick Google would bring it up.

Trebor1415 · May 10, 2013

Here's a thought:

Have your character be stupid or desperate enough to squirt some flame through the doorway and down the hall. Set it up so it uses the last of the fuel in the flamethrower so he doesn't get as big of a squirt of the liquid.

Have the far wall and ceiling catch fire and have the automatic building sprinklers cut in and the fire alarms go off.

With the sirens blazing, the walls smoldering, and the sprinklers drenching everything you could use write a great scene that incorporates all that chaos into the story.

The characters only survive because it used the last of the fuel, which limited the flame to the point where the sprinklers are effective.

Do it right and it cold be exciting to read and set up more problems for your protaganists. You could have the flame squirt and the hallway catch fire close up a chapter for a mini cliffhanger.

Dave Hardy · May 10, 2013

Orianna2000 said:
So when Wikipedia says that most commercial and military flamethrowers today use propane instead of liquid fuel, does that mean they're all short-range? Or is there some extra gadget that makes the flame go further? I'm just curious at this point. It doesn't have much bearing in my story.

I think in a flamethrower the propane pushes out the main fuel source, napalm or gasoline or other highly volatile fluid. You might be thinking of a propane torch, a sort of tool used to solder or braze metal fittings, or to make a creme brule. It's sort of like comparing a nail gun to a .50 caliber Browning machine gun.

Orianna2000 · May 11, 2013

Here is what Wikipedia says:

"Some flamethrowers project a stream of ignited flammable liquid; some project a long gas flame. Most military flamethrowers use liquids, but commercial flamethrowers tend to use high-pressure propane and natural gas, which is considered safer. . . . A propane-operated flamethrower is a relatively straightforward device. The gas is expelled through the gun assembly by its own pressure and is ignited at the exit of the barrel through piezo ignition. Liquid-operated flamethrowers use a smaller propane tank to expel the liquid."

So it sounds like there are two different kinds of gas flamethrowers, one where the gas itself is ignited (perhaps with a shorter range, though it doesn't say), and one where the gas is used to shoot the liquid fuel. Of course, I am aware that Wikipedia isn't always the most accurate source of information.

I plan to give them propane flamethrowers for outside use only, since those are supposed to be safer than liquid fuel types. Then, for the indoors scene, I will have them use CO2 fire extinguishers to battle the fog. I considered having a fire trigger the sprinkler system and having that add to the tension, but I think it would detract from the main point of the scene, which is how the hero is risking his life to test the vaccine against the fog.

Dave Hardy · May 11, 2013

Orianna2000 said:
Here is what Wikipedia says:

"Some flamethrowers project a stream of ignited flammable liquid; some project a long gas flame. Most military flamethrowers use liquids, but commercial flamethrowers tend to use high-pressure propane and natural gas, which is considered safer. . . . A propane-operated flamethrower is a relatively straightforward device. The gas is expelled through the gun assembly by its own pressure and is ignited at the exit of the barrel through piezo ignition. Liquid-operated flamethrowers use a smaller propane tank to expel the liquid."

So it sounds like there are two different kinds of gas flamethrowers, one where the gas itself is ignited (perhaps with a shorter range, though it doesn't say), and one where the gas is used to shoot the liquid fuel. Of course, I am aware that Wikipedia isn't always the most accurate source of information.

I plan to give them propane flamethrowers for outside use only, since those are supposed to be safer than liquid fuel types. Then, for the indoors scene, I will have them use CO2 fire extinguishers to battle the fog. I considered having a fire trigger the sprinkler system and having that add to the tension, but I think it would detract from the main point of the scene, which is how the hero is risking his life to test the vaccine against the fog.

I think the article is conflating a brush-burner or weed burner with a flamethrower. Flamethrower tends to be applied to military usage, at least AFAIK, though maybe in British parlance a weed burner could be a "flame thrower". That may be a bit of the confusion.

A weed burner is for controlled burning, where a military flamethrower is for general devastation. While using a military flamethrower in a bunker is pretty much sure death, a weed burner is risky (limited oxygen), but perhaps not as terrible. Obviously, weed burners are intended for outdoor use, but necessity knows no rules...

EMaree · May 11, 2013

Dave Hardy said:
though maybe in British parlance a weed burner could be a "flame thrower". That may be a bit of the confusion.

In my experience, us Brits tend to call anything with fire coming out one end a "flamethrower". Which isn't very helpful when precise identification is needed!

Orianna2000 · May 11, 2013

That could explain the confusion! I've no idea who wrote the article, but it does mention that flamethrowers are a forbidden item for civilians to own in the UK. I wonder if that includes weed burners, too? Ah, well. I'm just glad I caught the whole "indoor flamethrower" scene before I submitted the book to an agent. That would have been embarrassing!

Mr. GreyMan · May 11, 2013

I think I must be missing something. Why not just have the basement be made mainly out of brick and concrete?

Bomb shelters aren't really known for being built out of flammable material anyway, defeats the purpose.
Also, the basement should have proper ventilation, I would think; metal vents and all that. Even if the bomb shelter is air tight, if the door is open they should be fine.

Orianna2000 · May 11, 2013

Mr. GreyMan said:
I think I must be missing something. Why not just have the basement be made mainly out of brick and concrete?

Bomb shelters aren't really known for being built out of flammable material anyway, defeats the purpose.
Also, the basement should have proper ventilation, I would think; metal vents and all that. Even if the bomb shelter is air tight, if the door is open they should be fine.

Well, I've already described the basement as being similar to the rest of the office building, with carpeted floors and beige walls. There are other important rooms down there, so it's not just storage and the bomb shelter. I didn't want it to look dingy and "basementy," but more like a regular office space.

The bomb shelter itself is concrete, but the hallway outside looks normal. There are air vents within the shelter--ventilation shafts that lead to a filtration system on the roof. And I suppose there are regular AC/heating ducts throughout the basement, like there would be on any other floor. They'll have plenty of air while locked in the shelter.

Mr. GreyMan · May 11, 2013

I mean, if it's a basement the walls and floors are likely not made of anything flammable. Those ceiling tiles in offices aren't normally flammable and are in metal frames. So, that would just leave what ever office stuff is in there.

They might be able to burn all of that without burning the building down, since the walls are surrounded by dirt not air. Shoot a few flames off, burn some desks and whatnot, but have them burnout after a bit. I've burned some of those grey polyester rugs they have in offices; they more melt than catch fire, and when they do burn it's not for very long. But, it would depend on the setup of the room, of course.
Most stuff in office buildings isn't very flammable by design (metal desks and chairs, depending on time period).

(Alternately, it sounds like a torch and a controlled bonfire might get the job done of holding off this mist. Depending.)

TheBladeRoden · May 15, 2013

While not exactly spectacular, I would just stick a blowing fan in the doorway

Orianna2000 · May 15, 2013

TheBladeRoden said:
While not exactly spectacular, I would just stick a blowing fan in the doorway

Brilliant!

Using a Flamethrower Indoors

nearly perfect

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