Why the hate? Of Goodreads and YA

Crane · Apr 14, 2012

bethany said:
Do you mean why do author read the negative reviews? You wouldn't? Any author whose baby is out there in the world who doesn't read the reviews sometimes, must have great self restraint, or something else I don't have.

It's true that the Western Society Model encourages fierce competition amongst people, so naturally any review of your baby can easily be interpreted as a review of you as a person. It's not the truth, but it can be taken as such.

But "can't help but read them" is not a valid argument. An author can't help but read a negative review. They can't help tweeting about it. And commenting. And blogging about it. Suddenly, there's another reviewer/author war, becuase of what? Curiosity?

I'm not saying curiosity is unacceptable. But if negative reviews upset authors and spur them into saying rash, possibly damaging things, is it not better to suppress that curiosity?

thebloodfiend · Apr 14, 2012

Rina Evans said:
Most my friends on Goodreads love those books (in addition to one Twilight derivative adult book...), or love one and hate the other, and I hate all of them with such a passion, so I can't really trust their judgement when it comes to creepy LIs, sex and gender, but they do love some books I do so that's so confusing. They think scary & 'romantic' = sexy

While we're at it, who do you think gives really good YA reviews and can pick up on unhealthy relationships going around?

Sorry about the slightly off topic :/

It is hard to find reviewers you trust. Luckily, I've been around on GR long enough to know who I'll trust for certain kinds of books. Of course, this is all to my taste in books.

If you aren't into agressive snark, Tatiana and Kat are pretty much who I go to for reviews on PNR. Sometimes Wendy Darling, but we disagree on a few. Tatiana writes a blog with Flannery called TheReadAdventurer. Kat writes a blog with Stephanie (Carrier of the Mark drama) called Cuddlebuggery. Wendy Darling's blog is TheMidnightGarden.

TheBookSmugglers, who I have about 75% agreement with, post reviews on GR, but they don't use their accounts.

For more snark, I like Ceilidh's reviews (the sparkle project, and my co-blogger on The Book Lantern) and Kira's reviews (of Suzie Townsend/Dan Whatever his last name is fame). Kira and I disagree about a lot of books, though. I really liked Wicked Lovely, she thought it was boring. She really liked The Forest of Hands and Teeth, I thought it was boring.

As for a few others that I don't really follow for their reviews, but because, more or less they're cool people -- Melina Pendulum, who makes really good vids on YouTube and spends a bit of time on GR, and Phoebe North, who disagree with me on almost all popular PNR, like Mara Dyer (bleh) and Shiver (bleh), and writes a sci-fi review blog with a guy called Sean Wills who writes pretty good reviews on YA sci-fi.

I could continue naming names, but it's probably best if you just jump in and test the waters for yourself. I'd recommend myself, but I don't read/review consistently.

LittleKiwi · Apr 14, 2012

Nicole River said:
Oh, and sorry for the double post, but I just remembered something on the subject of stalker LI's. A few weeks back I read, on a fitness forum of all places, a long and heated discussion about gym etiquette. The general opinion seemed to be, "It's okay when someone follows me around the gym giving unsolicited advice and trying to strike up a conversation even though I'm lifting weights and/or I have my headphones on, as long as they're young, cute and fit". So: cute, muscular guy grabbing you without permission to "correct your technique"=flirty. Older, overweight guy doing the same=stalker. Remind you of anything?

No matter who does this it drives me insane. Pet peeve right there. I hate how some of the girls I train with think it's sexy.

bethany · Apr 14, 2012

Crane said:
It's true that the Western Society Model encourages fierce competition amongst people, so naturally any review of your baby can easily be interpreted as a review of you as a person. It's not the truth, but it can be taken as such.

But "can't help but read them" is not a valid argument. An author can't help but read a negative review. They can't help tweeting about it. And commenting. And blogging about it. Suddenly, there's another reviewer/author war, becuase of what? Curiosity?

I'm not saying curiosity is unacceptable. But if negative reviews upset authors and spur them into saying rash, possibly damaging things, is it not better to suppress that curiosity?

I actually thought that I hit edit on this post to add the quotes below. Wasn't trying to put this much thought into the matter, really.

I'm fine with you not feeling my arguments are "valid". I just think it's natural for any artist to look at how people are responding to their work. But if you have the restraint not to look, then great, you will not look, not be upset, and never be involved in a reviewer/author war.

I will never be involved such a war because I have respect for other people and their opinions and don't initiate arguments with them over twitter or any other venue. I was answering the question of why authors even look at goodreads. I have a goodreads account, and a goodreads blog, and readers regularly contact me via goodreads. I could cover the screen and type blog posts with one hand, answer goodreads mail strictly through my other email account, but I like to see what people are saying. Curse my curiosity. And I suppose my Western competitiveness, though I'm not sure who or what I'd be competing with.

bethany · Apr 14, 2012

Crane said:
Okay, so I think we've already made the distinction between negative review that is also thoughtful and constructive, and a negative review that is just 1000 words worth of bitching and troll-bait. However, I remain baffled as to why authors seek out negative reviews intentionally. Like, I get it that sometimes people send them links to the review, but what about those that do it intentionally?

And I don't think that the "looking for constructive criticism" is a good excuse, for the simple reason that people are different. What one person found amazing about your book would have been a thorn in the heel of another. I know I don't always agree with my GR friends on a book, and sometimes, our opinions are totally different. Does that mean one of us was wrong? I don't like to think so.

Constructive criticism is what critique partners are for - those are people whose opinions you respect and trust. GR is for the consumers, and if those consumers enjoy the snark... well, isn't that just the culture we live in? Isn't that the culture Collins offers a critique to in The Hunger Games?

bethany said:
Do you mean why do author read the negative reviews? You wouldn't? Any author whose baby is out there in the world who doesn't read the reviews sometimes, must have great self restraint, or something else I don't have.

I'm sorry you feel my "argument" is invalid. I wasn't arguing with you, I was answering the question you posed above, which I have bolded. I tried to answer it honestly since it seemed like an honest question.

I'm not sure what bearing that has on whether or not I'm competitive or whether I feel that reviews reflect on me as an individual.

I just think it's natural for any artist to look at how people are responding to their work. But if you have the restraint not to look, then great, you will not look, not be upset, and never be involved in a reviewer/author war.

I will never be involved such a war because I have respect for other people and their opinions and don't initiate arguments with them over twitter or any other venue. I was answering the question of why authors even look at goodreads. I have a goodreads account, and a goodreads blog, and readers regularly contact me via goodreads. I could cover the screen and type blog posts with one hand, answer goodreads mail strictly through my other email account, but I like to see what people are saying. Curse my curiosity. And I suppose my Western competitiveness, though I'm not sure who or what I'd be competing with.

adktd2bks · Apr 14, 2012

bethany said:
I'm fine with you not feeling my arguments are "valid". I just think it's natural for any artist to look at how people are responding to their work. But if you have the restraint not to look, then great, you will not look, not be upset, and never be involved in a reviewer/author war.

I will never be involved such a war because I have respect for other people and their opinions and don't initiate arguments with them over twitter or any other venue. I was answering the question of why authors even look at goodreads. I have a goodreads account, and a goodreads blog, and readers regularly contact me via goodreads. I could cover the screen and type blog posts with one hand, answer goodreads mail strictly through my other email account, but I like to see what people are saying. Curse my curiosity. And I suppose my Western competitiveness, though I'm not sure who or what I'd be competing with.

Agreeing with Bethany here. Curiosity is natural and there is nothing wrong with an author reading reviews be they negative or positive. But an author has to go into it knowing and making a pledge that they are never going to say more than a thank you to any review or else don't say anything at all. Reviewer/author wars don't happen because of curiosity. They happen because someone isn't behaving professionally. Period.

pixydust · Apr 14, 2012

adktd2bks said:
Reviewer/author wars don't happen because of curiosity. They happen because someone isn't behaving professionally. Period.

Exactly

hlynn117 · Apr 14, 2012

Renee Collins said:
-Another reason could be bandwagoning. People are irritated that a certain book gets a lot of positive buzz, so they seek out the bad reviews on Goodreads and click like, whether or not they read the book.

I read the 2-4 star reviews first. Most books aren't 1 or 5 star books, but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy reading them! I've found some of the best 'should I read it' advice in these 2-4 star reviews. Sometimes, the person didn't really like an element of the book, and when I find out what this is, I decide if I pick up the book anyway.

MissyLaRae · Apr 14, 2012

I read a lot of the one star reviews....

Because they are definitely entertaining.

The hard part for me is being an author with a newly published book out, and also being a devoted reader. I'd love to sit and post reviews all dang day, but I'd probably NOT post the majority of the 1 star or negative reviews out of fear of reprisal by those authors.

I'd hate to rate a book one star and then have a ton of fans rate my book one star even if they haven't read it.

I read a book (rather started to read a book) last night that I had to stop only about three chapters in because it was SO FREAKING BAD.

I would NEVER recommend it to anyone and it has clearly gotten inflated reviews and star ratings. Some of the reviews are laughable they're so pathetically fake for it now after I've read a bit of it.

What do you do in that situation though? Do you approach as a reader/reviewer and not give a rats butt about it or be cautious and keep the bullseye off of you??

PhoebeNorth · Apr 15, 2012

thebloodfiend said:
It is hard to find reviewers you trust. Luckily, I've been around on GR long enough to know who I'll trust for certain kinds of books. Of course, this is all to my taste in books.

If you aren't into agressive snark, Tatiana and Kat are pretty much who I go to for reviews on PNR. Sometimes Wendy Darling, but we disagree on a few. Tatiana writes a blog with Flannery called TheReadAdventurer. Kat writes a blog with Stephanie (Carrier of the Mark drama) called Cuddlebuggery. Wendy Darling's blog is TheMidnightGarden.

TheBookSmugglers, who I have about 75% agreement with, post reviews on GR, but they don't use their accounts.

For more snark, I like Ceilidh's reviews (the sparkle project, and my co-blogger on The Book Lantern) and Kira's reviews (of Suzie Townsend/Dan Whatever his last name is fame). Kira and I disagree about a lot of books, though. I really liked Wicked Lovely, she thought it was boring. She really liked The Forest of Hands and Teeth, I thought it was boring.

As for a few others that I don't really follow for their reviews, but because, more or less they're cool people -- Melina Pendulum, who makes really good vids on YouTube and spends a bit of time on GR, and Phoebe North, who disagree with me on almost all popular PNR, like Mara Dyer (bleh) and Shiver (bleh), and writes a sci-fi review blog with a guy called Sean Wills who writes pretty good reviews on YA sci-fi.

I could continue naming names, but it's probably best if you just jump in and test the waters for yourself. I'd recommend myself, but I don't read/review consistently.

Thanks for the rec, TBF. We really do have very different tastes!

I mostly wanted to post to give a shout-out to Ceridwen, one of my fave GR reviewers: http://www.goodreads.com/user/show/1055856-ceridwen

She runs with a crowd on there (along with reviewers like Thomas, Elizabeth, Bird Brian, even Keely . . . ) who don't reviewer primarily or even entirely YA, but still write really thoughtful, well-considered reviews that often touch on feminist issues.

lauralam · May 6, 2013

hlynn117 said:
I read the 2-4 star reviews first. Most books aren't 1 or 5 star books, but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy reading them! I've found some of the best 'should I read it' advice in these 2-4 star reviews. Sometimes, the person didn't really like an element of the book, and when I find out what this is, I decide if I pick up the book anyway.

I agree. Some of the best reviews of my book I've found have been 3 star. They're fair, balanced, articulate. They don't bother me at all. A well-written negative review doesn't bother me, either. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and I appreciate them taking the time to articulate what they liked/didn't like, rather than just rating 1 or 2 stars with the comment "awful" and nothing else, you know?

I read reviews, though not as often as I used to. I gird myself going in, and I've never been tempted to reply to any of them. When I see people freaking out over negative reviews I'm honestly perplexed. I still love my book but I've written 1.5 books since. I feel a bit removed from it now, and there's nothing I can change about it. Every book's going to get good and bad reviews. I just read a nice review, maybe eat a cookie, and balance is restored and I get on with my day.

JustSarah · May 6, 2013

I'll put on record, as with amazon reviews have no influence on my purchasing students.

Maybe because a lot of the reviews I see are reviews for Angels & Demons when the book itself is Neuromancer. Did the reviewer inadvertently click on Spiderwhick Chronicles when they meant to review Harry Potter?

And usually its those reviews that take a book down to 3.5 stars. (I bought The Dream Master anyway.)

Nicole River · May 6, 2013

Haha, someone bumped my old thread!
Well, since this thing is over a year old, here's how my thoughts on the subject have evolved since then.

I'm not going to say I think those ranty reviews are deserved. But as I read YA all over the spectrum, I came to realize that there are books that challenge tropes, gender roles and rape culture, and books that uphold them... without even realizing it sometimes. There are books with kickass heroines, but some heroines actually kick ass and others mostly wear cool outfits while their love interest rescues them. There are books that are new and original or at least have new twists on familiar subjects... and there are books that are mindless retreads of whatever the trend du jour was. (All the PNR with a jerkass, stalkery love interest published around 2009. All the dystopias with shoddy worldbuilding and cardboard characters. You get the idea.) So at least I understand the difference now... I think. Still, it's a matter of taste. Maybe some people prefer a heroine who doesn't kick ass in Doc Martens. Maybe the reason there are so many sparkly dresses in books where they don't necessarily belong (like a dystopian) is because teens like to read about sparkly dresses? So if I ever bitch about these things in a review, I will always preface it by saying that this is MY opinion and MY tastes. I think the lack of this was what bugged me in the first place.

However, I still think that:
- getting personal in a review is rude
- so is tweeting a nasty review to an author
- and being bitchy without giving reasons (as in, a bunch of GIFs and "this book really sucked the author is a stupidhead) is kind of pointless but I guess if you're a reader and you don't mind looking like an ass, go ahead and do it. But if you're a reviewer, blogger or aspiring author, it'll come back to bite you.

breaking_burgundy · May 6, 2013

People love negative reviews the same reason they love books in general--because they love conflict, drama, and scandal.

My favorite reviewers are the ones who snark the same books I snark. And my favorite reviews to write are the snarky ones. I have a lot of trouble writing reviews for books I love because I feel like I can't do them justice. As a result, these reviews also tend to be very short. But when I find a book I hate, then I have no problem finding things to say about it. (Also, my two most popular Goodreads reviews are both 1-star reviews. All my good reviews tend to be overlooked.)

Roly · May 9, 2013

Now that I'm actually getting published I feel like I'm going to have to experience the other side of this whole goodreads thing. Not just reading other people's reviews but being reviewed myself. But honestly I don't think it's changed my outlook at all. Yes, negative reviews hurt would hurt. Even ones that are like one or two words 'this sucks' or 'this is shit.' But ultimately, this is just a part of putting your work out there. Everyone has to go through it so why should I be somehow exempt? As long as they're not threatening my life or making some kind of disgusting racist/sexist comment, I'm going to try my best just to shrug it off and keep doing what I do - write. Not saying it'll be easy of course, but the alternative is to make a fool yourself on the internet...

Erin Latimer · May 14, 2013

I have no problem with harsh reviews, even with snarky reviews that rip the book apart.

What gets to me is when I see the reviewer insulting the author. Like, they address the author in their review "Dear Ms Latimer, you really should quit the writing biz and take a job at Burger King, because all you're good for is serving me fries."

I don't understand why that's necessary.

I don't think I'll be able to look at goodreads reviews. I would never reply to any of them, since that's not the author's place to do that, but something like that would probably ruin my entire week.

Why the hate? Of Goodreads and YA

Crane

thebloodfiend

Cory

LittleKiwi

bethany

:)

bethany

:)

adktd2bks

addicted to books

pixydust

Mother Flippin' Rhymnosorous

hlynn117

MissyLaRae

Total Newbie

PhoebeNorth

Time Lord Victorious

lauralam

Moonshade

JustSarah

Nicole River

with the weird fowl in her userpic

breaking_burgundy

Roly

silly puppy monster

Erin Latimer

Stay in and write.