Picture book proposal samples?

CAWriter · Mar 25, 2012

I've written many non-fiction book proposals, but I'll be submitting my first children's mss, and I can't find any samples of what the completed manuscript should look like. Even the books on writing children's books only have info on query letters, etc.

Is it not standard to include information re: comparable/competitive books, marketing, etc?

Anyone have any suggestions for books/websites that give good samples to follow?

Polenth · Mar 26, 2012

Picture books are usually submitted with a short query/cover letter and the full (text only) manuscript. They're not usually submitted with a proposal. So that's why you're not finding any samples.

Smish · Mar 26, 2012

Polenth is right. Just submit the manuscript, typed on one page. If you're an author/illustrator, submit a sample of the art, as well.

CAWriter · Mar 26, 2012

Weird. I know the idea has to stand on its own, but it seems like it would helpful to children's publishers to know what comparable books are in the category, how this differs, marketing avenues the author has, etc. I've already done the research (no point writing a book that's already on the shelf). If they like the idea, they're going to have to look at all those things I already did. I wonder why that requirement hasn't trickled down (or over) from grown-up publishing.

But, less work for me! So be it.

Bufty · Mar 26, 2012

Don't you think a children's publisher that publishes Picture Books would be at least - if not more so - as familiar as yourself with existing trends and possible marketing methods?

CAWriter said:
Weird. I know the idea has to stand on its own, but it seems like it would helpful to children's publishers to know what comparable books are in the category, how this differs, marketing avenues the author has, etc. I've already done the research (no point writing a book that's already on the shelf). If they like the idea, they're going to have to look at all those things I already did. I wonder why that requirement hasn't trickled down (or over) from grown-up publishing.

But, less work for me! So be it.

CAWriter · Mar 26, 2012

Bufty said:
Don't you think a children's publisher that publishes Picture Books would be at least as familiar as yourself with existing trends and possible marketing methods?

Sure, but if it's as simple as that, why would publishers of adult books expect all of that? (And they do expect it.)

escritora · Mar 26, 2012

CAWriter said:
Sure, but if it's as simple as that, why would publishers of adult books expect all of that? (And they do expect it.)

I write adult nonfiction as well.

The reason a proposal makes sense for adult nonfiction is because the writer is selling him or herself and also the concept of the book. Publishers want to know the writer has a firm grasp of the market they are writing for.

That's not something that is required for the picture book writing world.

That's my take on it, anyway.

Bufty · Mar 26, 2012

Folk write non-fiction on a host of topics.

If I were considering publishing a book on some weird subject - that I may know little of personally - I want to have a pretty good idea the writer knows his stuff, has researched it and written something worthwhile, has credentials and an established following and audience who may buy it, and can prove in advance the book has a reasonable chance of making me a profit.

A kid's picture book doesn't exactly fall into that category. The story either appeals to the publisher or it doesn't. He knows whether it will sell or not - that's his business.

CAWriter said:
Sure, but if it's as simple as that, why would publishers of adult books expect all of that? (And they do expect it.)

Polenth · Mar 26, 2012

CAWriter said:
Sure, but if it's as simple as that, why would publishers of adult books expect all of that? (And they do expect it.)

You don't submit a proposal for adult fiction either. That's usually done with a query letter, and possibly a few pages sample or synopsis.

For fiction of all varieties, the primary concern is whether the story is entertaining. That's why you don't need a non-fiction style proposal for fiction. At most, they want "My book will appeal to fans of Octonauts," which you could include in your query letter. But you don't have to.

Torgo · Mar 26, 2012

CAWriter said:
Sure, but if it's as simple as that, why would publishers of adult books expect all of that? (And they do expect it.)

Smaller, more specialised market (and not all publishers expect it for adult books.)

MsJudy · Mar 26, 2012

Question to the OP: Are you talking about an illustrated, non-fiction book for children? Or a story?

Because that may explain the confusion.

Children's fiction is queried the same way adult fiction is: Write a damn good query letter. Nothing about you or the market matters until you've sold them on the story.

Children's non-fiction can be queried like fiction--send a good query letter and a completed manuscript--or like adult non-fiction--develop a strong proposal. It depends very much on the type of book and the market you're going for.

But even a short, illustrated children's book wouldn't usually be called a "picture book" if it's non-fiction.

ecrider · May 4, 2013

What is the difference between a proposal and a query letter. They seem extremely similar.

ConnieBDowell · May 4, 2013

This is an old thread, but ecrider (and anyone else still reading this thread) if you're looking for examples of and advice about picture book queries, check out Mary Kole's post and Darcy Pattinson's blog. Also, did you know it's National Picture Book Writing Week--at least through May 7th. The idea is that you write 7 first drafts in the week. PBs are so short, you can easily catch up if, like me, you've been distracted with other things so far.

Lineykins · May 4, 2013

Hi CAWriter,

If you are talking about submitting a picture book text (usually under 500 words, at most 1,000),
then you submit the full manuscript along with a covering letter.

Imo (and I have done this) I think it's okay to have a brief para in your covering letter about why you think your idea/story will sell well - eg. gap in market, marketing info, comparable books but why yours stands out, etc - but just a brief paragraph.

What I generally do when submitting picture book manuscripts (and this is just what has worked for me, not saying it's the ideal way) is

para 1 - include name of manuscript, word count, 2-3 line catchy description of the story.

para 2 - a brief para as noted above (marketing or other pertinent info that might help sell the idea/story). But only if this para is relevant to your story - and never talk down to publishers, they do know their stuff.

para 3 - few lines about me as a writer/previous publications.

End with thank you for their time and consideration.

Hope this helps. Best of luck.

Lineykins · May 4, 2013

opps - didn't notice this was an old thread - thanks Connie.

CAWriter · May 13, 2013

Thanks for all the replies. It all came together eventually. It went out for submission last summer, got a 'yes' from an editor earlier this year, and recently got a contract!

John Olexa · May 13, 2013

Thats awesome CAWriter!! Congrats!!!!

Picture book proposal samples?

CAWriter

Polenth

Mushroom

Smish

Reads more than she writes.

CAWriter

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

CAWriter

escritora

.

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

Polenth

Mushroom

Torgo

Formerly Phantom of Krankor.

MsJudy

ecrider

ConnieBDowell

Lineykins

Lineykins

CAWriter

John Olexa