Third Person Limited - Dos and Don'ts

FlashFictioneer · May 11, 2013

Driving myself to distraction here around narration perspective. I am attempting to write in a Third Person Limited style. As you will all know this simply means driving the story through a 'Point of View' character. Whether it's one POV per chapter or scene the story is theirs for that period of time. As this is a fairly common mode for story telling I was/am

D) hoping that my new friends around the Water Cooler may be able to set me straight.

As far as I can see if in 3PL then it is fair game to write:

What the POV is doing i.e. "She left the hallway and entered the lounge" etc
What the POV can see i.e. "as she walked into the room the hearth was ablaze, the table set" etc
What the POV can think i.e " as she entered the room the thoughts of last year came flooding back. He had told her not to return. His words still sent chills down her spine..." etc

What I'm not so sure about is something like this:

As the door clicked shut Senisa moved towards the window. Varrjan and the rest of her children were almost out of sight as they approached and then disappeared down Standal Avenue. They would be gone until at least the middle of the day. She had time to do what needed to be done.

The first two sentences are 3PL. The first describing what Senisa is doing. The second is what she can see. The third and fourth are the tricky ones. To me they are both things the POV would know i.e. she knows they will be gone until the middle of the day AND she knew she had time to do what needed to be done. However, I'm not sure if others would agree and might see it as more of an omni style piece of narrative. Perhaps I am using a mix of a narrator's voice and the POVs.

Suppose my question is whether it is deemed clunky to mix between a narrator and the character in POV. Should you stick to one? As long as the POV is the driving force does it matter where the voice comes from i.e. them or someone just behind them who knows their thoughts?

Any input would be appreciated.

Cheers,

PaulC.

Honest Bill · May 11, 2013

Firstly i wouldn't use the word 'Approached' because that gives me the impression they are coming towards her, which doesn't actually follow and they move out of sight.

As for the actual question. I've seen lots of 3rd limted that does exactly that, just gives you a little update on what the character thinks. But you need to make sure it's something the character would logically think of at that point in time.

FlashFictioneer · May 11, 2013

Honest Bill said:
Firstly i wouldn't use the word 'Approached' because that gives me the impression they are coming towards her, which doesn't actually follow and they move out of sight.

Ah, excellent. I like this kind of reply. Thanks for that

Honest Bill said:
As for the actual question. I've seen lots of 3rd limted that does exactly that, just gives you a little update on what the character thinks. But you need to make sure it's something the character would logically think of at that point in time.

So as long as it is something the POV could/would think of at that moment you would say it's not a biggie whether you use the POV or a narrator voice?

PaulC.

benbenberi · May 11, 2013

I agree with Honest Bill about "approached," which is a somewhat ambiguous word in context.

Aside from that, the passage works fine for me. IMO anything the POV knows or is aware of is suitable for inclusion -- you don't necessarily have to limit yourself to their active conscious thoughts.

(But I favor a somewhat more fluid approach to POV than some others on this board. It's possible to remain perfectly consistent within a POV's frame of reference but vary the degree of penetration and interior/exterior focus depending on the needs of the narrative and your style of writing. "Limited 3rd" does not have to be identical with the character's stream-of-consciousness, nor does it have to be restricted to (or even present at all) a direct transcription of the character's inner voice.)

Honest Bill · May 11, 2013

FlashFictioneer said:
Ah, excellent. I like this kind of reply. Thanks for that

So as long as it is something the POV could/would think of at that moment you would say it's not a biggie whether you use the POV or a narrator voice?

PaulC.

No problem.. any time.

But yes i'd say t's no biggie. If i were being critical though, i'd say that the third sentence is poissibly unnecessary. It seems you are using two sentences to say that she would have time to do what she needed to do, whereas you only really needed the last sentence to do that.

Is it really relevant that it would be midday when they got back? If it is, you might want to choose a more interesting way of saying that, so it will stick in the reader's mind more.

Otherwise i'd just stick with

"She had time to do what she needed"

Or if the reader already has a good idea what she will be doing, then you could name specifically what it is she has time for.

Chasing the Horizon · May 11, 2013

benbenberi said:
I agree with Honest Bill about "approached," which is a somewhat ambiguous word in context.

Aside from that, the passage works fine for me. IMO anything the POV knows or is aware of is suitable for inclusion -- you don't necessarily have to limit yourself to their active conscious thoughts.

(But I favor a somewhat more fluid approach to POV than some others on this board. It's possible to remain perfectly consistent within a POV's frame of reference but vary the degree of penetration and interior/exterior focus depending on the needs of the narrative and your style of writing. "Limited 3rd" does not have to be identical with the character's stream-of-consciousness, nor does it have to be restricted to (or even present at all) a direct transcription of the character's inner voice.)

I fully agree with all this. The real point of 3rd limited is to make the story easier to read by not including multiple people's thoughts in a single scene (which is confusing unless done very well). You can and should include any information the POV character has that's necessary to understanding the scene, whether it would be at the front of their mind in the moment or not. Since I write secondary-world fantasy from the perspectives of natives, I often have to include a few lines about what something is or how it works, which the character probably wouldn't be thinking about consciously because it's normal to them.

FlashFictioneer · May 11, 2013

Chasing the Horizon said:
You can and should include any information the POV character has that's necessary to understanding the scene, whether it would be at the front of their mind in the moment or not.

Excellent. They key being it is something they know, even if they aren't necessarily thinking about it at that precise second...

Thanks everybody for your comments. Great to have found a forum with such a knowledgeable group of members. I will be back with plenty of questions over the coming weeks and months :snoopy:

Chasing the Horizon · May 11, 2013

FlashFictioneer said:
Excellent. They key being it is something they know, even if they aren't necessarily thinking about it at that precise second...

Yep, you've got it. If they don't know something, it can't be included without violating POV (though characters can and will make assumptions about things they don't know at times, just like real people do).

Do make sure you only do this with necessary information, though. Otherwise it can become an info-dump.

FlashFictioneer · May 11, 2013

Chasing the Horizon said:
an info-dump.

Another minefield :evil

Third Person Limited - Dos and Don'ts

FlashFictioneer

Honest Bill

practical experience, FTW

FlashFictioneer

benbenberi

practical experience, FTW

Honest Bill

practical experience, FTW

Chasing the Horizon

Blowing in the Wind

FlashFictioneer

Chasing the Horizon

Blowing in the Wind

FlashFictioneer