Multiple Tenses in a Sentence

Shenanigans! · May 6, 2013

Attempting to fix some tense problems with a few sentences, I have managed to confuse myself and so far my attempts to find clarification have ended in failure.

My question is when is it acceptable to have multiple tenses in a sentence and then how do I recognize legitimate uses and simple tense problems?

My own research seemed to imply it depended if the action took place together or later, but the examples given there dealt with large time barriers, unlike the sentences I was looking at and given in my example below.

Here's an example of the type of sentence I guess i'm looking at, taken from Brandon Sanderson's The Well of Ascension:
Sazed skidded across the beautiful white floor, crashing into another wall.

Thank you for any help.

Russell Secord · May 6, 2013

What you have there is a participial phrase. Some people will tell you to use them sparingly. The general idea is to show one action taking place over time, while another happens during that interval. In your example, then, the implication is that Sazed did the skidding during the crashing, when the opposite is closer to the intended meaning. A better way to put it might be, "Sazed skidded across the beautiful white floor and crashed into another wall." No tense conflict there.

Shenanigans! · May 6, 2013

Thank you. It's good to know (if I'm careful) I can use sentences like this, but that as I thought I had multiple options chose between. I must have spent an hour in my confusion seeing how I could rewrite a sentence in various ways to 'work correctly'.

Chase · May 6, 2013

Shenanigans! said:
Sazed skidded across the beautiful white floor, crashing into another wall.

Russell's alternative is a good one, but I don't see a tense conflict in your original example.

Shenanigans! · May 6, 2013

Chase said:
Russell's alternative is a good one, but I don't see a tense conflict in your original example.

No, no, it was fine, but I was trying to figure out why it was right because I had confused myself in my own writing when I could do this or not.

ironmikezero · May 6, 2013

It's not that difficult to mix tenses (and sometimes voice), but it has to make sense in the context of your narrative...

(e.g.) The suspect will have to admit his involvement when the investigator confronts him with the evidence that had been discovered before his true identity was confirmed.

Bufty · May 6, 2013

Then your whole question was distorted and nothing to do with tenses at all.

Shenanigans! said:
No, no, it was fine, but I was trying to figure out why it was right because I had confused myself in my own writing when I could do this or not.

King Neptune · May 6, 2013

As Ironmikezero pointed out, there are times when it is correct to mix tenses, but your sentence didn't do that.

Fallen · May 6, 2013

Sazed skidded (tense) across the beautiful white floor, crashing (aspect) into another wall.

Tense is found the main clause: Sazed skidded across the beautiful white floor
Aspect (your participial phrase) doesn't carry tense, it carries action and whether it's still in progress: crashing into another one.

You can change tense in that sentence, but the participial will stay the same:

Sazed skids across the floor, crashing into...
Sazed skidded across the floor, crashing into...

blacbird · May 6, 2013

I'd recommend what Russell suggested, not because of a tense issue, but because "crashing" implies either simultaneity or continuous action. Your example is clearly intended to describe sequential action: First he skidded, then he crashed. He didn't crash at the same time as he skidded, or in a continuous manner.

caw

Ken · May 8, 2013

... how does one skid across a floor to begin with?
Something like "sailing" might be better.
That's the usual word choice.

evilrooster · May 9, 2013

Absent a boat, sailing across a floor is pretty difficult. Skidding is perfectly possible; it means "sliding or slipping over a surface, often sideways." (dictionary.com)

Ken · May 9, 2013

... seems you're correct.
If the dictionary says so, it's so.

Common usage is another matter.
Here in the States skidding isn't used in that sense.
At least in my own experience.

Tires skid. So do sneakers on a polished wood floor.
That's counter to how skid is used in the OP and in the dictionary's definition.
And if most readers are like me, which is not a given, they're gonna be a bit confused.

Sailing is the typical term that's used and also flying.
Drop kicked by an assailant, he sailed/flew across the room.
These are used so often and for so long,
that they're no longer even considered similes.
'
They are rather a cliche though. So writers opt for other options.
Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't.

Personally, I don't know of a better substitute.
But I definitely wouldn't use skid.
Just my own opinion.

23 Skidoo

amergina · May 9, 2013

Ken said:
... seems you're correct.
If the dictionary says so, it's so.

Common usage is another matter.
Here in the States skidding isn't used in that sense.
At least in my own experience.

Tires skid. So do sneakers on a polished wood floor.
That's counter to how skid is used in the OP and in the dictionary's definition.
And if most readers are like me, which is not a given, they're gonna be a bit confused.

Sailing is the typical term that's used and also flying.
Drop kicked by an assailant, he sailed/flew across the room.
These are used so often and for so long,
that they're no longer even considered similes.
'
They are rather a cliche though. So writers opt for other options.
Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't.

Personally, I don't know of a better substitute.
But I definitely wouldn't use skid.
Just my own opinion.

23 Skidoo

I don't know. I've lived in the US all my life, and I've skidded across wood floors in socks throughout many of those years.

Tires skid when they slip on a surface (that is, they no longer have traction).

I've read the Brandon Sanderson book this quote is from, and my image was always of him sliding across the floor (in an uncontrolled manner) and crashing into the wall. When this happens he's lying on his side, being pushed across the floor by a force, not flying through the air.

In context, skidded is a fine word choice.

Ken · May 9, 2013

amergina said:
Tires skid when they slip on a surface (that is, they no longer have traction).

... not sure. Maybe I misunderstand the word's meaning.
To me, skidding requires traction. For something to skid there's got to be traction, or resistance.
Otherwise the thing slides or "sails."
A person skidding across a floor would be a person sliding with an impediment.
And that would be counter to the context.
But again, maybe I misunderstand the word's meaning.
Maybe there doesn't have to be any traction involved.

evilrooster · May 10, 2013

(BTW, I was born, raised and educated in the US, even if I moved abroad later.)

Ken said:
... not sure. Maybe I misunderstand the word's meaning.
To me, skidding requires traction. For something to skid there's got to be traction, or resistance.
Otherwise the thing slides or "sails."
A person skidding across a floor would be a person sliding with an impediment.
And that would be counter to the context.
But again, maybe I misunderstand the word's meaning.
Maybe there doesn't have to be any traction involved.

I think that sliding or slipping would be moving across the floor with no traction at all. Skidding would imply (for me) some traction -- enough to generate some heat, or leave a mark, but not stop the movement -- but might get used for no-traction situations if the sound were right for the sentence. (Some people write with their inner ear more than others.)

I'd still use sailing for travel over water or through air rather than across a surface, unless it was actively slick. I suspect that might be a regional variation within the US.

Ken · May 10, 2013

evilrooster said:
I'd still use sailing for travel over water or through air rather than across a surface, unless it was actively slick.

... the times I've read about characters sailing across floors have been in fight scenes. So I guess some of their movement was indeed airbound. It may just be that there really is no adequate word to describe that sort of movement. There may be fair approximations, but no one word that really gets it across completely. And that may well be why similes like sailing were resorted to in the first place. Just a guess.

Bedrock_Fred · May 20, 2013

evilrooster said:
(BTW, I was born, raised and educated in the US, even if I moved abroad later.)

I think that sliding or slipping would be moving across the floor with no traction at all. Skidding would imply (for me) some traction -- enough to generate some heat, or leave a mark, but not stop the movement -- but might get used for no-traction situations if the sound were right for the sentence. (Some people write with their inner ear more than others.)

I'd still use sailing for travel over water or through air rather than across a surface, unless it was actively slick. I suspect that might be a regional variation within the US.

I agree with evilrooster. If you want to help the reader experience the movement, perhaps selecting a word that conveys the movement as either abrasive or smooth is how you can decide what's appropriate in that situation.

Bruce Lee sent the man sailing with a sidekick.(one probably pictures a man flying through the air onto the top of a pool table or something.)

Bruce Lee sent the man skidding with a sidekick.(One may picture the mans body rapidly dragging along the floor into the leg of the pool table or chair.)

Roxxsmom · May 20, 2013

Ken said:
... how does one skid across a floor to begin with?
Something like "sailing" might be better.
That's the usual word choice.

Ken said:
Common usage is another matter.
Here in the States skidding isn't used in that sense.
At least in my own experience.

Completely don't see this. Skidding ties in much more with sliding across a slick floor and crashing into a wall in my mind than sailing does. I'm an American, and so is Brandon Sanderson, the author of the passage quoted by the OP.

But at some point, I think we all have to agree that language is metaphoric and if we try to write everything literally, we'll not only fail miserably but create pretty dull prose. Even if skidding was always, or usually, associated with tires and sneakers (which it isn't, even in a modern setting), use of the term could evoke a desired image--aka frantic, out of control sliding across a surface (whereas sailing evokes an image of in-control, graceful sliding, as if propelled by a wind). Whether that image succeeds or not is in the eye of the reader.

I do agree with Blacbird that you have to be careful with participles, though, as they denote simultaneous or embedded actions, not sequential. Still, the sentence in question got past Sanderson's editors and most of his many, many readers as well. I'd love to be able to screw up grammar the way he does

I was told in another thread (where I was agonizing over why so many successful authors get away with breaking the rules of grammar as well as the basic guidelines our creative writing teachers told us to breach at our peril) that these things are not done accidentally, and if the author gets away with them, they're correct usage in the context of their stories.

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