Proved or proven?

kaitie · Feb 25, 2013

"I think over the years I've proven/proved to all of you that I'm trustworthy."

That's not the exact line, but it's similar usage. "Proved" sounds funny to me. If I was saying it aloud, I'd want to say "proven," but this is in the same category as "pled" and "pleaded" for me (the first sounds right, the second sounds awkward, but I know that the second is more accepted as correct nowadays).

I have no idea which it is, and I've looked up the answer. Dictionaries say either one work as a past participle and proven is more commonly used as an adjective, but does the fact that either are accepted mean I can use either one? Or is one more accepted over the other now?

Chase · Feb 25, 2013

kaitie said:
"I think over the years I've proven/proved to all of you that I'm trustworthy."

I have no idea which it is, and I've looked up the answer. Dictionaries say either one work as a past participle and proven is more commonly used as an adjective, but does the fact that either are accepted mean I can use either one? Or is one more accepted over the other now?

For what it's worth, my opinion is your safe with either one, especially in dialog as you have it. In a recent work, I've had one character say proven and another say proved.

King Neptune · Feb 25, 2013

I believe that Chase is corrrrect, but it is largely a matter of which side of the Atlantic you are on. I have been reading books published in the UK recently, and I have started to get used to past participles such as : proved and many others that use "ed" instead of "en", and ones that use no ending like "got" for "gotten".

It might also be a matter of house style for some publishers.

BethS · Feb 25, 2013

Technically, it's either, I think, but I tend to prefer to use "proven" with past perfect.

Maythe · Feb 25, 2013

I didn't know that 'gotten' was standard usage in US English, I always assumed it was a dialect usage. You learn something new...

Raison · Feb 25, 2013

BethS said:
Technically, it's either, I think, but I tend to prefer to use "proven" with past perfect.

I do as well.

Maythe said:
I didn't know that 'gotten' was standard usage in US English, I always assumed it was a dialect usage. You learn something new...

No, it's standard in the US. The people who are known for the most dialect say "got" for past participle. (I grew up as one of those people.

)

kaitie · Feb 25, 2013

Thanks guys. I liked "proven," but my spell check found fault with it, which had me questioning which it should be. I'll just leave it for now and then I can always go back and change it if I have to.

King Neptune · Feb 25, 2013

Maythe said:
I didn't know that 'gotten' was standard usage in US English, I always assumed it was a dialect usage. You learn something new...

Yes, it is standard and most common, as are quite a few other past participles that end in "en", unless I, and lots of other people, use a dialect that is only used by educated people in the u.s. (which is possible). The kind of people who usually would be using dialect often end the past participles with "ed", when they use past tense at all.

guttersquid · Feb 25, 2013

Proved is the usual verbal form. "He had proved his ability."
Proven is the usual adjectival form. "His proven ability can not be doubted."

King Neptune · Feb 26, 2013

guttersquid said:
Proved is the usual verbal form. "He had proved his ability."
Proven is the usual adjectival form. "His proven ability can not be doubted."

That must be a left coast thing. Here in New England, "proven" is the past participle whether it used in a perfect tense or as an adjective. I have proven that it is a proven fact.

Torgo · Feb 26, 2013

King Neptune said:
That must be a left coast thing. Here in New England, "proven" is the past participle whether it used in a perfect tense or as an adjective. I have proven that it is a proven fact.

I guess they diverged at some point. I wonder what proven to be the difference?

kaitie · Feb 26, 2013

When I looked it up, I saw the adjective/participle thing listed as correct by current standards of journalism. I think it's a case of being a recent change, similar to the way "cactuses" was added to the dictionary as a correct form of "cacti" in the past several years. Most people still don't say it that way because most of us have learned it one way, whereas they're trying to normalize it to something else.

I think for dialogue it's okay, particularly if it sounds good to most of us. My concern was that this was a case of me just being grammatically ignorant. I didn't want a character saying something that came across to the rest of the world as awkward/uneducated sounding.

King Neptune · Feb 26, 2013

Torgo said:
I guess they diverged at some point. I wonder what proven to be the difference?

Perhaps this is another example of the coasts diverging. When there is another great earthquake at the New Madrid fault, then this will have been proven to be so.

This makes me wonder when "oxen" will be replaced with "oxes".

ironmikezero · Feb 26, 2013

Either is acceptable - but there is a codicil... In weaponry, the correct terminology for a device that has been tested and deemed to have met or surpassed the design standard is "proofed". Sadly, I've seen proved and proven misused in this context.

JimHeskett · Mar 2, 2013

is this dialogue in your MS? If so, have the character say whatever you think he/she would say. people don't always speak in a technically correct voice.

Proved or proven?

kaitie

With great power comes

Chase

It Takes All of Us to End Racism

King Neptune

BethS

Maythe

Raison

kaitie

With great power comes

King Neptune

guttersquid

I agree with Roxxsmom.

King Neptune

Torgo

Formerly Phantom of Krankor.

kaitie

With great power comes

King Neptune

ironmikezero

practical experience, FTW

JimHeskett

Writers gon write.