Comedy ...... with a Serious Ending ???

Shaley · 01-23-2013, 03:02 PM

Hello All
this is my first Post so apologies in advance for any mistakes.

Ok so I am just about finished my first 75,000 word novel. It is predominantly a work of Humour /Satire about a modern day Aristocratic or Landed Gentry family Father , Mother, Adult son, who are on the run from Interpol and flee from England to Rural Italy. The entire novel takes place over one week and the MC of the novel is the father of the family who also owns a bank.

The plot is delibertely set at a fairly fast pace as there is a lot of action and dialogue usually connected with the terrible disasters the family cause in the little Italian town,either independently or as a group on a daily basis.

However (and this is the crux of my question) the last chapter has been purposely written with a definate twist (even though clues had been dropped earlier on in previous chapters) and becomes a lot more serious than all the previous chapters revealing hidden secrets about the characters that the reader would not have known.This is mostly achieved via a letter that is left from one character to another conveying secrets and lies that had been told years ago, Also within this letter is another letter written forty two years ago that provides the proof in relation to the secrets and lays to rest the unresolved ghosts of the past.

My question is even though essentially the novel is a comedy/satire.Do you think it is still OK to finish the story on a serious note that possibly provokes the reader to think on a deeper level about the events of the novel ? or Do you think the reader will feel ripped of if they are not having a big Ha ha ha belly laugh right up untill the end ....... BTW there is a sequel in the pipeline !!

JimmyB27 · 01-23-2013, 03:09 PM

The end of Blackadder Goes Forth was serious and definitely didn't make me shed a tear or two.

Chris P · 01-23-2013, 03:13 PM

If it works, it works. I think you could find many examples of books that do this. I'm thinking more of movies and plays, for example the Tyler Perry movies have Perry cross-dressing as a hilarious woman but the other plots are quite serious; incest, pedophilia, adultery, and more. There was also a play called "Second Samuel" that is incredibly satirical and funny in its first act and downright heavily preachy in its second.

In short, if you can think of it, it can work if done well. Best of luck!

JimmyB27 · 01-23-2013, 03:45 PM

Also, Catch 22 has heart wrenching serious bits all the way through.
Spoiler:
"But Yossarian understood suddenly why McWatt wouldn't jump, and went running uncontrollably down the whole length of the squadron after McWatt's plane, waving his arms and shouting up at him imploringly to come down, McWatt, come down; but no one seemed to hear, certainly not McWatt, and a great, choking moan tore from Yossarian's throat as McWatt turned again, dipped his wings once in salute, decided oh, well, what the hell, and flew into a mountain"

seun · 01-23-2013, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyB27

The end of Blackadder Goes Forth was serious and definitely didn't make me shed a tear or two.

Nor me.

I shed LOADS.

Buffysquirrel · 01-23-2013, 04:02 PM

True, but Blackadder Goes Forth was dealing with a subject that's incredibly sensitive still. I think if they hadn't taken that more serious tone in the final episode, there would've been complaints. Oh, would there have been complaints.... And throughout the series, in fact, they took great care to acknowledge the seriousness amid the humour.

Still a bit surprising that they got away with it.

I don't think a family rioting abroad will require similar treatment.

I'm reminded of The Great Escape which starts as a comedy and ends with an atrocity. I hate that film. It deceives. You're led by the comedy to believe nothing bad will happen, and then....

On the whole, yes, this *can* work, but you probably need to flag up the more serious ending with hints of seriousness throughout.

Which is it, however, aristocracy or landed gentry? Not the same thing at all.

Torgo · 01-23-2013, 04:10 PM

John Scalzi's recent REDSHIRTS starts off as amusing satire and gets deadly serious by the end.

Shaley · 01-23-2013, 04:45 PM

Hi All,
thanks very much for all the fab informative replies I have read them all and found them to be quite useful. Yes I agree with the example that was given about Black Adder goes forth ....... I guess it always comes back to the How much v Too much conundrum and how carefully those sorts of sensitive issues are dealt with ........ my novel does involve Art Fraud, Prostitution, International Money Laundering, Mafia Activities Alcoholism and Infidelity to name just a few but these are all in the lighter funnier chapters where the reader knows the characters dirty little secrets and is always one step ahead ...... it is all very "tongue in cheek"

Good Question re the difference between the two ..... being a Typical Ozzie i am not too sure how the mechanics of it all works but as far as I can tell In England, the term often refers to the social class of the landed aristocracy or to the minor aristocracy (see landed gentry) whose income derives from their large landholdings. So I guess the family would be better known as Landed Gentry because they come from a long line of land owners and currently own a Bank

I would love to hear some more opinions !!!!

Roger J Carlson · 01-23-2013, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyB27

Also, Catch 22 has heart wrenching serious bits all the way through.

I never thought of Catch 22 as a comedy. To me, it's book that uses comedy to explore a serious subject, which I think is different than a comedy with a serious ending.

Buffysquirrel · 01-23-2013, 05:20 PM

Basically, the aristocracy have titles and don't have to work. The landed gentry only don't have to work.

Susan Littlefield · 01-23-2013, 06:42 PM

Shaley,

!

I think it sounds like a fun. Of course a serious ending is fine.

MakanJuu · 01-23-2013, 11:14 PM

The Adam Sandler film, Click, has an ending that has been known to make people cry.

If it works in the story, it works, and if it's unexpected and still works, it's gold.

MRevelle83 · 01-23-2013, 11:36 PM

You ever heard of the genre "Romantic Comedy"? It is usually applied to movies like Knocked Up, Hitch, and 50 First Dates.

You ever seen 50 First Dates? How it ended? Ever watch Shaun of the Dead knowing that 'romantic comedy' was applied to it?

Ever know that William Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet is a romantic comedy (for the first couple acts, anyway)?

In other words, they exist, and if it works, have at it. You are in good company I think.

benbenberi · 01-24-2013, 12:14 AM

I hated, loathed, detested, and have never re-watched the movie Terms of Endearment because for the first 3/4 it was an engaging light-hearted comedy, then abruptly turned into a tearjerking melodrama. It was a new movie at the time. I went in un-spoiled. I came out deeply resenting having spent the money to get in.

However, a lot of people love that movie, and that sort of bait-and-switch. If you think you can pull it off, go for it.

BethS · 01-24-2013, 01:24 AM

It can work as long as it doesn't feel like a bait-and-switch. You have to foreshadow that serious ending.

job · 01-24-2013, 04:11 AM

What everyone said -- if it works, it works.

Beth points out the comedy is infused with the tragedy to come. So true. A final chapter can't be tacked on in a choose-your-own-adventure way. If the work is an organic whole, right from the first chapter, the only possible ending is tragic. A happy ending wouldn't 'fit'.

Let me just add a general warning against polemic.

Teinz · 01-24-2013, 11:49 AM

I like comedy about disturbed relations, which in the end clash and resolve so that all negative emotions are turned into postive ones. So, yeah, these can be very serious and have serious endings. For me, it doesn't really diminish the "hahaha" factor.

LindaJeanne · 01-24-2013, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benbenberi

I hated, loathed, detested, and have never re-watched the movie Terms of Endearment because for the first 3/4 it was an engaging light-hearted comedy, then abruptly turned into a tearjerking melodrama. It was a new movie at the time. I went in un-spoiled. I came out deeply resenting having spent the money to get in.

However, a lot of people love that movie, and that sort of bait-and-switch. If you think you can pull it off, go for it.

My mom had a similar experience with some movie she watched on TV when she was pregnant with me.

It was an unhappy time of her life for lots of reasons that I won't go into here; the movie depicted itself as a light-hearted feel-good movie which was exactly what she needed.

The movie ended tragically, with everything going horribly wrong, the man's pregnant wife dying, etc.

I don't know what movie it was, but I know it involved Michael Landon, because she never, ever forgave him for doing that to her.

As others have said, anything can work if you pull it off.

But be very careful about promising something different than what you deliver, and the effect it will have on someone who really and truly needs what you are promising.

Torgo · 01-24-2013, 05:06 PM

Has anyone mentioned Evelyn Waugh?

Beachgirl · 01-24-2013, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BethS

It can work as long as it doesn't feel like a bait-and-switch. You have to foreshadow that serious ending.

This.

Quote:

Originally Posted by job

What everyone said -- if it works, it works.

Beth points out the comedy is infused with the tragedy to come. So true. A final chapter can't be tacked on in a choose-your-own-adventure way. If the work is an organic whole, right from the first chapter, the only possible ending is tragic. A happy ending wouldn't 'fit'.

Let me just add a general warning against polemic.

And very much this.

JimmyB27 · 01-24-2013, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger J Carlson

I never thought of Catch 22 as a comedy. To me, it's book that uses comedy to explore a serious subject, which I think is different than a comedy with a serious ending.

I suppose. That's generally the kind of comedy I like the best though. And I think you kind of have to do it that way to avoid the bait and switch others have mentioned.

Shaley · 01-25-2013, 10:31 AM

Thanks so much everyone for taking the time to reply ......I have read each and every post and found them all to be very helpful. I must confess after reading my intial post again ( NB it was written whilst dying of the dreaded "Lurgy" so... stuffed to the Gills with Codral cold and Flu Tabs).......I realised it must have been difficult to respond considering I gave very little detail about the Actual Plot of the Story

Ok yes I agree it would be foolish and essentially a sounding of the "Death Knells" to suddenly introduce a complete change of mood and or tone to the novel in the last chapter.

Just to give a little bit more info ........ Yes there is a sense of danger, urgency and hostility presiding over and throughout the entire novel but always wrapped up in Humour. Especially in regard to the MC who has essentially been Lying to all the other characters in the novel and at best only ever telling half truths. So I guess it would not be completely unexpected to introduce a twist in the last chapter ...... However on the other hand each chapter always finishes with a cliff hanger ( obviously deliberate ..... a bit of a poke if you like at contemporary Crime/Action Novels ) and as far as the reader knows the MC has vanished never to be seen again ........ Hence the twist with the letter indicating that the MC had been planning revenge right from the beginning for the past actions of the Character who receives the letter ....... I hope that makes a bit more sense ....... Perhaps the Novel Borders on Black Comedy ??? ...... I would still like to hear more Opinions ..... Thanks

lolchemist · 01-25-2013, 11:55 AM

This is a bit OT but I just had to come back to tell you that I thought about your book even after I was offline and the antics that family causes in Italy really makes me think I would very much enjoy reading this book when it gets published, eve if the ending is more serious!

MonumentalWords · 01-25-2013, 04:44 PM

I think light and shade, contrast, the paradox, make great books. Without the humor I find it hard to relate to deadly serious novels and without the darkness, I often feel unsatisfied with comedies. We want a journey after all and want to see the characters change over the course of the story.

Bertram Fox · 01-25-2013, 04:44 PM

Pratchett is a good model for mixing slapstick comedy and tragedy. The important thing, as Beth said, is to foreshadow. Drop in moments of seriousness throughout, so the final big change of direction doesn't give anyone whiplash.

01-23-2013, 03:02 PM	#1
Shaley New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Doha Qatar Posts: 29	Comedy ...... with a Serious Ending ??? Hello All this is my first Post so apologies in advance for any mistakes. Ok so I am just about finished my first 75,000 word novel. It is predominantly a work of Humour /Satire about a modern day Aristocratic or Landed Gentry family Father , Mother, Adult son, who are on the run from Interpol and flee from England to Rural Italy. The entire novel takes place over one week and the MC of the novel is the father of the family who also owns a bank. The plot is delibertely set at a fairly fast pace as there is a lot of action and dialogue usually connected with the terrible disasters the family cause in the little Italian town,either independently or as a group on a daily basis. However (and this is the crux of my question) the last chapter has been purposely written with a definate twist (even though clues had been dropped earlier on in previous chapters) and becomes a lot more serious than all the previous chapters revealing hidden secrets about the characters that the reader would not have known.This is mostly achieved via a letter that is left from one character to another conveying secrets and lies that had been told years ago, Also within this letter is another letter written forty two years ago that provides the proof in relation to the secrets and lays to rest the unresolved ghosts of the past. My question is even though essentially the novel is a comedy/satire.Do you think it is still OK to finish the story on a serious note that possibly provokes the reader to think on a deeper level about the events of the novel ? or Do you think the reader will feel ripped of if they are not having a big Ha ha ha belly laugh right up untill the end ....... BTW there is a sequel in the pipeline !!

01-23-2013, 03:09 PM	#2
JimmyB27 Dazed & Confused Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Milton Keynes, UK Posts: 4,256	The end of Blackadder Goes Forth was serious and definitely didn't make me shed a tear or two. __________________ Destiny Deceived - Internet serial story. Written by one of the best writers I have ever been. "Having been an English literary graduate, I've been trying to avoid the idea of doing art ever since. I think the idea of art kills creativity. I think media are at their most interesting before anybody's thought of calling them art, when people still think they're just a load of junk." Douglas Adams

01-23-2013, 03:13 PM	#3
Chris P Likes metaphors mixed, not stirred Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Entebbe, Uganda Posts: 9,318	If it works, it works. I think you could find many examples of books that do this. I'm thinking more of movies and plays, for example the Tyler Perry movies have Perry cross-dressing as a hilarious woman but the other plots are quite serious; incest, pedophilia, adultery, and more. There was also a play called "Second Samuel" that is incredibly satirical and funny in its first act and downright heavily preachy in its second. In short, if you can think of it, it can work if done well. Best of luck! __________________ Short Fiction and Novel in the AW Library Shorts on sub: 12 Now available! Adventures of Duke and Eddie Querying! Resingled Querying! Nyasaland 68K/90K Write on, Brother! (blog)

01-23-2013, 03:45 PM	#4
JimmyB27 Dazed & Confused Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Milton Keynes, UK Posts: 4,256	Also, Catch 22 has heart wrenching serious bits all the way through. Spoiler: "But Yossarian understood suddenly why McWatt wouldn't jump, and went running uncontrollably down the whole length of the squadron after McWatt's plane, waving his arms and shouting up at him imploringly to come down, McWatt, come down; but no one seemed to hear, certainly not McWatt, and a great, choking moan tore from Yossarian's throat as McWatt turned again, dipped his wings once in salute, decided oh, well, what the hell, and flew into a mountain" __________________ Destiny Deceived - Internet serial story. Written by one of the best writers I have ever been. "Having been an English literary graduate, I've been trying to avoid the idea of doing art ever since. I think the idea of art kills creativity. I think media are at their most interesting before anybody's thought of calling them art, when people still think they're just a load of junk." Douglas Adams

01-23-2013, 04:02 PM	#6
Buffysquirrel Possibly not a real squirrel Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Coldest corner of the living room, United Kingdom Posts: 4,538	True, but Blackadder Goes Forth was dealing with a subject that's incredibly sensitive still. I think if they hadn't taken that more serious tone in the final episode, there would've been complaints. Oh, would there have been complaints.... And throughout the series, in fact, they took great care to acknowledge the seriousness amid the humour. Still a bit surprising that they got away with it. I don't think a family rioting abroad will require similar treatment. I'm reminded of The Great Escape which starts as a comedy and ends with an atrocity. I hate that film. It deceives. You're led by the comedy to believe nothing bad will happen, and then.... On the whole, yes, this can work, but you probably need to flag up the more serious ending with hints of seriousness throughout. Which is it, however, aristocracy or landed gentry? Not the same thing at all. __________________ Writing from a female point of view seems to be generally regarded as something more like writing from the perspective of a deer: you might get points for novelty, but it'd be impossible to get right, and who really wants to hear a deer narrate a story, anyway? Jennifer duBois Damn the prologue, full speed ahead! Laurie McLean, Foreword Literary

01-23-2013, 04:10 PM	#7
Torgo Madeleines! Don't get me started. Absolute Sage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 5,417	John Scalzi's recent REDSHIRTS starts off as amusing satire and gets deadly serious by the end. __________________ torgoblog.blogspot.com

01-23-2013, 04:45 PM	#8
Shaley New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Doha Qatar Posts: 29	Hi All, thanks very much for all the fab informative replies I have read them all and found them to be quite useful. Yes I agree with the example that was given about Black Adder goes forth ....... I guess it always comes back to the How much v Too much conundrum and how carefully those sorts of sensitive issues are dealt with ........ my novel does involve Art Fraud, Prostitution, International Money Laundering, Mafia Activities Alcoholism and Infidelity to name just a few but these are all in the lighter funnier chapters where the reader knows the characters dirty little secrets and is always one step ahead ...... it is all very "tongue in cheek" Good Question re the difference between the two ..... being a Typical Ozzie i am not too sure how the mechanics of it all works but as far as I can tell In England, the term often refers to the social class of the landed aristocracy or to the minor aristocracy (see landed gentry) whose income derives from their large landholdings. So I guess the family would be better known as Landed Gentry because they come from a long line of land owners and currently own a Bank I would love to hear some more opinions !!!!

01-23-2013, 05:20 PM	#10
Buffysquirrel Possibly not a real squirrel Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Coldest corner of the living room, United Kingdom Posts: 4,538	Basically, the aristocracy have titles and don't have to work. The landed gentry only don't have to work. __________________ Writing from a female point of view seems to be generally regarded as something more like writing from the perspective of a deer: you might get points for novelty, but it'd be impossible to get right, and who really wants to hear a deer narrate a story, anyway? Jennifer duBois Damn the prologue, full speed ahead! Laurie McLean, Foreword Literary

01-23-2013, 06:42 PM	#11
Susan Littlefield Tell it like it Is Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: With my cats Posts: 7,497	Shaley, ! I think it sounds like a fun. Of course a serious ending is fine. __________________ Susan Please visit my website: http://www.susanlittlefield.blogspot.com/

01-23-2013, 11:14 PM	#12
MakanJuu practical experience, FTW Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Warren, OH Posts: 191	The Adam Sandler film, Click, has an ending that has been known to make people cry. If it works in the story, it works, and if it's unexpected and still works, it's gold. __________________ WIPs- Spirits: The Hidden World (working title, urban fantasy) WC: 32000 Stage: Entering Act 2, first draft Coming Soon: A million & one other ideas I haven't really thought out very well yet.

01-23-2013, 11:36 PM	#13
MRevelle83 figuring it all out Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 85	You ever heard of the genre "Romantic Comedy"? It is usually applied to movies like Knocked Up, Hitch, and 50 First Dates. You ever seen 50 First Dates? How it ended? Ever watch Shaun of the Dead knowing that 'romantic comedy' was applied to it? Ever know that William Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet is a romantic comedy (for the first couple acts, anyway)? In other words, they exist, and if it works, have at it. You are in good company I think.

01-24-2013, 12:14 AM	#14
benbenberi practical experience, FTW Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 558	I hated, loathed, detested, and have never re-watched the movie Terms of Endearment because for the first 3/4 it was an engaging light-hearted comedy, then abruptly turned into a tearjerking melodrama. It was a new movie at the time. I went in un-spoiled. I came out deeply resenting having spent the money to get in. However, a lot of people love that movie, and that sort of bait-and-switch. If you think you can pull it off, go for it.

01-24-2013, 01:24 AM	#15
BethS writer, rider, reader Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: NC, USA Posts: 3,064	It can work as long as it doesn't feel like a bait-and-switch. You have to foreshadow that serious ending. __________________ The Stone River

01-24-2013, 04:11 AM	#16
job In the end, it's just you and the manuscript Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 3,036	What everyone said -- if it works, it works. Beth points out the comedy is infused with the tragedy to come. So true. A final chapter can't be tacked on in a choose-your-own-adventure way. If the work is an organic whole, right from the first chapter, the only possible ending is tragic. A happy ending wouldn't 'fit'. Let me just add a general warning against polemic. __________________ JoB Black Hawk, Forbidden Rose, Spymaster's Lady, Lord and Spymaster, Her Ladyship's Companion, Mischief and Mistletoe. My blog

01-24-2013, 11:49 AM	#17
Teinz Loves it when a plan comes together Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,303	I like comedy about disturbed relations, which in the end clash and resolve so that all negative emotions are turned into postive ones. So, yeah, these can be very serious and have serious endings. For me, it doesn't really diminish the "hahaha" factor.

01-24-2013, 05:06 PM	#19
Torgo Madeleines! Don't get me started. Absolute Sage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 5,417	Has anyone mentioned Evelyn Waugh? __________________ torgoblog.blogspot.com

01-25-2013, 10:31 AM	#22
Shaley New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Doha Qatar Posts: 29	Thanks so much everyone for taking the time to reply ......I have read each and every post and found them all to be very helpful. I must confess after reading my intial post again ( NB it was written whilst dying of the dreaded "Lurgy" so... stuffed to the Gills with Codral cold and Flu Tabs).......I realised it must have been difficult to respond considering I gave very little detail about the Actual Plot of the Story Ok yes I agree it would be foolish and essentially a sounding of the "Death Knells" to suddenly introduce a complete change of mood and or tone to the novel in the last chapter. Just to give a little bit more info ........ Yes there is a sense of danger, urgency and hostility presiding over and throughout the entire novel but always wrapped up in Humour. Especially in regard to the MC who has essentially been Lying to all the other characters in the novel and at best only ever telling half truths. So I guess it would not be completely unexpected to introduce a twist in the last chapter ...... However on the other hand each chapter always finishes with a cliff hanger ( obviously deliberate ..... a bit of a poke if you like at contemporary Crime/Action Novels ) and as far as the reader knows the MC has vanished never to be seen again ........ Hence the twist with the letter indicating that the MC had been planning revenge right from the beginning for the past actions of the Character who receives the letter ....... I hope that makes a bit more sense ....... Perhaps the Novel Borders on Black Comedy ??? ...... I would still like to hear more Opinions ..... Thanks

01-25-2013, 11:55 AM	#23
lolchemist Feed me green grapes. Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 719	This is a bit OT but I just had to come back to tell you that I thought about your book even after I was offline and the antics that family causes in Italy really makes me think I would very much enjoy reading this book when it gets published, eve if the ending is more serious! __________________ Current WIP (YA Fantasy) - Book 1: 53,467 of 75,000 x Book 2: 10,512 of 75,000 x Book 3: 09,962 of 75,000 x Book 4: 12,490 of 75,000

01-25-2013, 04:44 PM	#24
MonumentalWords MonumentalWords.com Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 14	I think light and shade, contrast, the paradox, make great books. Without the humor I find it hard to relate to deadly serious novels and without the darkness, I often feel unsatisfied with comedies. We want a journey after all and want to see the characters change over the course of the story. __________________ jT www.monumentalwords.com facebook.com/monumentalwords @monumentalwords

01-25-2013, 04:44 PM	#25
Bertram Fox Author, Designer, Mad Scientist Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 18	Pratchett is a good model for mixing slapstick comedy and tragedy. The important thing, as Beth said, is to foreshadow. Drop in moments of seriousness throughout, so the final big change of direction doesn't give anyone whiplash. __________________ Bertram Fox www.bertramfox.com Oh better far to live and die Under the brave black flag I fly, Than play a sanctimonious part, With a pirate head and a pirate heart.

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