The Duotrope Thread

[Aggy B.]

Originally Posted by alexshvartsman

Interesting. I didn't even get the newsletter. Ah well. Long live The Submission Grinder and Submitomancy

Well, it's funny. Last year I had first received the newsletter on Thursday, then it started coming on Friday (a day later than it seemed most of the other W1S1 folks got theirs). This week it showed up on Thursday. o_O

Maybe you'll get yours tomorrow.

[alexshvartsman]

Originally Posted by Aggy B.

Well, it's funny. Last year I had first received the newsletter on Thursday, then it started coming on Friday (a day later than it seemed most of the other W1S1 folks got theirs). This week it showed up on Thursday. o_O

Maybe you'll get yours tomorrow.

Its possible that they stagger the mailing to keep the pressure off their servers.

[Pemako]

Duotrope is strange nowadays. I have a couple of things severely in the red, but clicking on "view recent responses from this market" brings up "no responses reported within the last 30 days." It's hard to tell if the markets are asleep or if nobody is reporting responses anymore. Frustrating.

[kenlarsen]

Originally Posted by KitCat

Not sure if maybe I missed it somewhere along the lines or around the other threads but is there any other "Theme Calendars" out there like the one duotrope had?

I'd be interested in this, too. I relied on the calendar almost as much as the stats, and I can't find a comparable alternative.

[mrajotte]

Dark Markets, and The Horror Tree are the first 2 that come to mind for spec fic writers. I also periodically post some to the Bloody Bookish Calendar (with Google Calendar links to add them to your own).

[kenlarsen]

Thanks for the links! These will definitely help.

[Shadow_Ferret]

What the hell? When did Duotrope become a subscription only site? And what happened to all my stuff? Is it deleted or just held hostage until I pay?

[Aggy B.]

Originally Posted by Shadow_Ferret

What the hell? When did Duotrope become a subscription only site? And what happened to all my stuff? Is it deleted or just held hostage until I pay?

Supposedly they have kept the stats/submissions information from non-subscribers in the chance that you might change your mind and want to continue with the service. But I don't know for sure.

If you had a lot of info in there and you hadn't dumped it off in a .CSV file it might be worth the $5 to subscribe for a month and grab all of it. IF they do still have it stored.

[AWSullivan]

I know of several people who have converted to The Grinder that contacted Duotrope and asked for their data import. As far as I know Duotrope has been very accommodating for people who didn't get their data exported in time.

[beezle]

I'd be very curious to know how many folks are left over at Duotrope nowadays.

[LolaVelo]

Hi Beezle,
I'm still using Duotrope, and the Recent Responses lists don't seem particularly different than pre the $$ change - maybe half a page shorter per day, but nothing dramatic. The listings etc. are still the same. Maybe their mathematical user model (and then prediction model) was fairly accurate. Of course, it could be that an enormous amount of people (like me) opted for the $5.00 a month option, but they (not me) are in their last month there now, cleaning up their accounts etc.

I'm sticking with them: my writing has taken off since using them, and I know myself; there's no way I'd spend time searching out markets etc. on multiple sites. Also, the theme calendar has inspired work from me that sold, too, so I can't imagine walking away at this point. I had previously donated money to them (I felt so grateful for the site helping me to get my writing back on track), but with the amount I use them (every day), and how much they've helped me, I'm getting my money's worth even though it was a shock paying the subscription.

[HarryHoskins]

For anyone interested, here is the information from Duotrope's State of the Stats page. The most recent entry is 15.01.13. I include the rest for completeness.

Originally Posted by Duotrope

The State of the Stats 8 Dec 2012

When we knew that a donations-based model could no longer sustain Duotrope and started considering other business models, one of our primary concerns was the impact the change would have on our submission statistics. We looked at the overall usage information for Duotrope, and we found that roughly 80% of the statistics we use come from 20% of our user base. We also looked at what type of users we have — active vs casual, donor vs non-donor, etc. — and how that correlates to their submissions information.

After our subscription model was agreed upon, we went back to those numbers and determined that while a significant drop in the user base was expected, we should be able to retain somewhere between 75% to 80% of the submission reports we normally receive.

Equally important is the fact that we will also decrease the amount of unreliable data. On average every year, 28,000 submission reports get ignored in the statistics for a large variety of reasons. Once again, looking at the type of user submitting this information, we predict the unreliable data could decrease by as much as 90%.

Duotrope always keeps 12 months' worth of statistical figures, so as we enter our paid environment we expect no problem in being able to provide a more accurate and more consistent statistical analysis of the markets we list.

Originally Posted by Duotrope

8 Dec 2012

We are delighted to report that after one week our pre-subscription numbers are supporting our original conclusions. We are currently on track to retain just under 80% of the submissions data, and the unreliable data is being decreased by 95%, though we do not expect this latter number to remain that high in the end.

When we break down the pre-signups we have received thus far, we find that 56% are in the top quartile of submissions reports, and 82% are in the top half! All of these numbers have remained consistent throughout the week, much in the same way that election exit polls tend not to fluctuate drastically outside predicted patterns even as the numbers increase.

Considering our current numbers are pre-subscriptions only, we are very excited about the upcoming year, and once the user base and submission data stabilize after a few months, we are confident the value of Duotrope's statistics will be of even higher quality than at present.

Originally Posted by Duotrope

15 Dec 2012

After two weeks, we are very pleased to report that the numbers are moving along slightly ahead of schedule. In pre-subscriptions alone, we have already accounted for about 43,000 completed submission reports! Unreliable data is still on track to be reduced by the projected range, currently sitting at a reduction of 92.5%.

Originally Posted by Duotrope

22 Dec 2012

Three weeks in, and we are still ahead of schedule! We have now accounted for more than 51,000 completed submission reports. The decrease in unreliable data has been holding steady at just over 92%.

Originally Posted by Duotrope

29 Dec 2012

Pre-signups are almost over, and they have exceeded our expectations. We have reached more than one-third of our goal for submission reports data — that’s more than 61,000 data points! Unreliable data has so far been reduced by 89.6%.

Of the current pre-subscribers, 7.4% are brand new users — these are people who have never used Duotrope before. This means that while many former users will not be subscribing, our user base continues to grow. The month of December saw our user numbers increase at nearly the same rate as earlier months, even after it was made clear Duotrope would no longer be a free service.

We thank all of you who have shown your support by signing up early and helping us reach these very important numbers!

We will continue to update this page on a monthly basis from now on, instead of weekly. We fully expect January will be similar to — if not better than — December in terms of user data and statistics.

Happy New Year!

Originally Posted by Duotrope

15 Jan 2013

Here's a breakdown of the current status:

Subscribers now account for more than 126,000 data points.

Since January 1st, we have received over 9,100 new submission reports.

Unreliable data reduction is at 79.1%.

15.5% of subscribers are new to Duotrope.

New user numbers have exceeded the monthly average for 2011 and are on track to be higher than January 2012.

Draw from it what you will.

[AWSullivan]

Whew... been a crazy couple of weeks. We've made a ton of updates to the site.

Thanks to those of you who've given it a try. What are your thoughts (positive or negative) now that we're nearly a month from launch?

[Xenospora]

Originally Posted by AWSullivan

Whew... been a crazy couple of weeks. We've made a ton of updates to the site.

Thanks to those of you who've given it a try. What are your thoughts (positive or negative) now that we're nearly a month from launch?

I didn't have a problem with changing over to paid. I noticed you were in the red every month and figured it was coming. My main worry with going to paid was the loss of data and its effect on statistics, but from what I've seen you're still getting a fair number of submissions reports.

(I love all of the creative statistics on responses that enable me to go full OCD on a near daily basis. )

I think it's a good service for the price and for the most part I think you all at Duotrope have been polite and cordial in the face of a lot of vitriol.

I look forward to taking advantage of the new features you're planning to put in.

[AWSullivan]

Originally Posted by Xenospora

I didn't have a problem with changing over to paid. I noticed you were in the red every month and figured it was coming. My main worry with going to paid was the loss of data and its effect on statistics, but from what I've seen you're still getting a fair number of submissions reports.

(I love all of the creative statistics on responses that enable me to go full OCD on a near daily basis. )

I think it's a good service for the price and for the most part I think you all at Duotrope have been polite and cordial in the face of a lot of vitriol.

I look forward to taking advantage of the new features you're planning to put in.

Sorry... I thought it was more clear from the history in this thread. I'm not with Duotrope. I'm the developer of The Grinder.

[Xenospora]

Originally Posted by AWSullivan

Sorry... I thought it was more clear from the history in this thread. I'm not with Duotrope. I'm the developer of The Grinder.

Oops. Sorry. You probably already made that abundantly clear, but I missed it.

Er... carry on.

[HarryHoskins]

Originally Posted by Xenospora

Oops. Sorry. You probably already made that abundantly clear, but I missed it.

Er... carry on.

Yeah, I think it was the title of the thread. That confused me too. The Grinder thread.

[fihr]

Originally Posted by AWSullivan

Whew... been a crazy couple of weeks. We've made a ton of updates to the site.

Thanks to those of you who've given it a try. What are your thoughts (positive or negative) now that we're nearly a month from launch?

I like it so far. I'm maintaining my Duotrope subscription at the moment, but using The Grinder in parallel.

Things I'm enjoying about The Grinder:

- I love the histograms of response times. When deciding where to submit, response times influence my choice. It's good to see when the bulk of responses are returned, not just an average or median figure. It is more meaningful. (Bearing in mind that in holiday season many markets slow down.)

- It is fast to use. Faster than I was expecting.

- Clean interface. I think more could be done with this eventually, but it is easy to read now, with enough contrast to not get things muddled up on the screen.

- I like the screen showing overall response activity. It's encouraging actually - a reminder that R's are incredibly normal, and to persevere.

- Personable staff and fast response to my query. I mentioned on the Rejectomancy thread that when I wanted to add a new market and contacted The Grinder via the web form, the market was added within minutes. I understand that I contacted you at a good time, and that may not always be possible, but it was still impressive. I like that it's less anonymous than Duotrope, and I'm dealing with real people, enthused about their project. It's great.

I know its a project that will only work if people support it - by logging their submissions and by adding new markets, and by letting you know their suggestions. I hope that markets support The Grinder by notifying it of their existence. In the end, it is these things which I expect will make it a success or not.

I think if there is constructive community involvement, it has the potential to do more than Duotrope.

[seaaircarol]

Originally Posted by seaaircarol

I think I just found a mistake in statistics on Duotrope. I have a sub recorded to Skirt Magazine which has been out for 19 days. However, the "pending responses" line for Skirt says that there are two subs out, with a minimum of 34 days and maximum of 65. ??? That can't be right. I've never noticed anything like that before.

I finally figured this out. User error! Little Miss Idiot had misidentified the sub as poetry, not non-fiction.
Sorry if I misled anyone into thinking there was something wrong.

[Drachen Jager]

Anyone know what's up with The Grinder? Is this a temporary outage, or a serious problem?

I'm kicking myself now for not backing up my data from there.


Edit: Nevermind, it's back in service now.

[Lady MacBeth]

I just signed up for The Grinder. So far, so good.

[alexshvartsman]

Originally Posted by Drachen Jager

Anyone know what's up with The Grinder? Is this a temporary outage, or a serious problem?

I'm kicking myself now for not backing up my data from there.


Edit: Nevermind, it's back in service now.

Remember that the Grinder is still in beta. There may be occasional outages, but they've been otherwise reliable and very open to feedback. I highly recommend that everyone at W1S1 posts their submissions there. A wiki site is only as good as its data!

[Lady MacBeth]

I must say, I am impressed with The Grinder so far. I suggested a couple of markets that weren't listed and they were posted within 24 hours.

[Lady MacBeth]

For those of you who haven't tried The Grinder, I highly recommend it.

[Sagana]

I want to thank you for the Grinder. After a long hiatus (hey, I'm working on a novel, so I've an excuse, sorta), I went looking for markets for my son who is just beginning to submit work and Duotrope was pay. Ugh. Obviously I don't use it enough to justify paying for it. Read through the threads and there was the Grinder and it's wonderful and just what we needed. We'll spread it around and add stats if we have any to add