How do you outline when you don't have a plot?

It's a script, I see, so it's for film or TV.

If your question were posted in the Stage and Screen Forum I wouldn't have attempted to answer it, but seeing as it's here instead...

The comedy will either be visual or vocal or a mixture of both.

But first there needs to be a character (or more than one character) in a setting.

So your first sentence in the outline - which can take any form you like and be as rough or as detailed as you choose - could remind you where you are for Scene1, the intended character(s) involved and roughly what the scene will achieve.

Ditto for Scene 2...

I really can't go any further than that.

Many folk don't use outlines, but for those who do they are simply a rough guide as to what is envisaged as the setting and content of each unfolding scene.

Good luck -and you may wish to request this post be transferred to the appropriate Stage and Screen Forum in case other screenwriters have more specific advice for you from their experience.

Characters = Story
A structured Story = Plot

Billy goes home.
He eats a sandwhich.
Then he watched TV.
After, he kills the neighbors.
He goes to sleep.

That's character, story, plot.

And that's how I outline. Simple sentences that tell me what the scenes have.

Create a list of events, just like I did above and write them down. I like flash cards so I can place them on my desk and move them around. When you have multiple characters, this is good because then you can weave the scenes together.


Think up the story. Then start to outline. Ask questions like: "What does Billy do with the bodies?" and answer it with a scene.
Work towards the climax and still step back to fill in gaps.


Don't get caught up on "Plot" which is just a scheduling of story events. Tell a story, period.

For me, the climax helps dictate the plot.

The climax is the overcoming of the conflict, so the climax defines what exactly the story's main conflict is. The plot, then, is all about getting the characters to that climax, and making its stakes as high as possible.

For example, if the climax involves a young man killing the evil king, then the plot is about showing why that king is evil, why the young man has to kill him, and why that's so difficult. Basically, the plot shows why the actions of climax are significant.

There are a lot of story structures you could use as guidelines to help yourself get plot ideas. There's the monomyth, there are the stages of The Seven Basic Plots, and there's Blake Snyder's beat sheet (designed from screenwriting, but useful for any story plotting, I think), just to name a few. I'm sure there are plenty more out there, and they all overlap with each other.

Some writers shy away from resources like that, perhaps because they fear it will make their work derivative or overly predictable. But I've always found such resources useful and fascinating in and of themselves.

CKJLR said:

I just don't have a point A-Z and please don't tell me "Well Judy get a point A-Z first."

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It may not be what you want to hear, but Judy, get a point A-Z first. At the very least you need a point A. You can't outline what you don't have.

Start by sitting down and writing up what you do have. Your characters, main ideas, what they want, how they are going to get it, the conflicts, what stops them from getting it. Those are what you will eventually shape into your plot.

There are many different ways to outline. If you don't have the entire story in your head, maybe try the "headlights"approach. You just plan out what comes next, just think a scene or two ahead.

CatchingADragon said:

There are a lot of story structures you could use as guidelines to help yourself get plot ideas. There's the monomyth, there are the stages of The Seven Basic Plots, and there's Blake Snyder's beat sheet (designed from screenwriting, but useful for any story plotting, I think), just to name a few. I'm sure there are plenty more out there, and they all overlap with each other.

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Thanks for the links! I'm in the same boat. I have characters, I have premise, I'm still working on the plot.

For the OP: Here's another site that might be helpful! It focuses on the three-act structure. http://www.cod.edu/people/faculty/pruter/film/threeact.htm

(Also, and I'm not saying this to be mean or whatever, but it's a personal issue. I cringe whenever someone uses the R word. I know some people just don't realize it's offensive. http://www.r-word.org/r-word-why-pledge.aspx)

CKJLR said:

The title basically says it

I have the climax

I know for this script I need an outline or it'll turn into a clusterfudge. I can't go by the seat of my pants on this one or build from a basic idea.

I just don't have a point A-Z and please don't tell me "Well Judy get a point A-Z first."

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If you have a starting and ending point, you're starting out better prepared than I do.

But AW member 'tko' suggested once that, rather than an outline, a few 'waypoints' be set up between page 1 and 'the end'. As in, we'll drive from Chicago to LA, but we'll go by way of St. Louis, Oklahoma City, and Albuquerque.

At each phase, you direct your writing toward the next waypoint. (First, we'll head for St. Louis and fill in the stops and turns as we go.) On reaching each one, you shift gears and aim toward the next, and so on.

I'm about to try this method on my next project. It sounds good in theory.

This is actually a good question, I think. It struck me as a bit mysterious how writers went from a loose idea to tons of interconnected scenes. I'm actually stuck at that point myself though I'm making progress...kinda? XD

Brainstorm. Sketches, lists, free writing, idea webs. This is just idea soup. It could be scenes, characters, plot elements. Get yourself a bunch of raw materials to work with. Consider what your character wants and what stands in their way. Try making lists of goals and the obstacles that keep the protagonist from reaching them.

Afterward, pick the elements you like and try to connect and fill in holes. The other day, I was trying to figure out my villain's motivation, and how their nefarious activities were drawing the attention from the protagonist in the first place.

When you get stuck, brainstorm for more material on a particular subject.

Figure out three major turnigg points throughout the story in addition to a beginning and ending, even if they're just vague, each placed a quarter of the way through the story. Why those 5 points? Well...why not? It's a nice manageable number. Figuring out just five major points in the story is much more manageable than figuring out every one individually.

Work on the details of those points. What must be accomplished for those plot points to take place? For example, the protagonist must find the cave before they can have the climactic confrontation with the dragon, and to reach cave they must throw the villain off their own trail.

This is exactly the problem I had. Before s/he can write a story in any form, a writer needs to understand what makes stories work. It helps to study all kinds of stories in particular for the events that change the MC's situation and put him/her more and more at risk. Two things I've picked up from posts on this board - a story is about a story-problem, and that the story problem should be present from word one. The other point I like is that it's better to think about telling a good story than is is to think about the plot. Story is what you make up, plot is what is there after the story is written. Subtle perhaps, but writers like King & Bradbury think this way. I tried outlining and planning once. I spent a year and was not able to write more than about 1000 words of the book. So I think the answer for coming up with a good story is more about understanding how stories work than anything else.

Stories are about goals and opposition to goals. Your MC needs a strongly-motivated goal (win the girl of his dreams; save his children before time runs out; stop a madman from blowing up the city, etc.) and an opposing force (usually a villain) who's using everything in his power to stop the MC from achieving the goal.

Story is conflict.

The very basic structure is the 3 act structure where you have a beginning, middle and end. Start there. Where you do want to start the story, and where do you want to end the story? The middle is how you get from the beginning to the end.

You need character motivations. You need character arc, you need purpose. You need story. There are lots of ways to develop them.

Here is one:
http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/art/snowflake.php

Yes it's for novels but it works for screen plays as well.

Another method is to do the 4 page event method. Basically you figure out some big event that happens every 4 pages. You start by dividing your script into four parts.
Part 1 - introduction.
Part 2 - middle to midpoint.
Part 3 - midpoint to wrap up
part 4 - wrap up

Each section would be about 25 pages for a 100 page script.

You need 25 events. Those would include inciting incident, pp1, midpoint, pp2, and conclusion. You would include the events between there.

Writing down your character motivation and direction and character arcs can help develop those points. You also need stumbling blocks or disasters that get in your MC's way.

If you still can't figure it out, watch some of your favorite comedies and learn from them. What are the character motivations? What is the character development? What are the goals? What are the problems?

I'd suggest starting with 50 first dates, because it's hilarious but also has a solid story with good motivations and good stumbling blocks as well as solid character development in all the major players.

You know what? I don't know who suggested you "transfer your post" but all you have done is start another thread without bother to respond in your previous one. You could have asked a mod to actually move the previous thread and we would have happily done so for you. I'll move your other thread here and merge the two. You have also ignored my PM asking you to refrain from using the term "retarded" and to edit your previous post. I have edited that post now. Please edit your above post and remove that word. It is deeply offensive to many people here.

I don't know what the problem is. You don't need to know A, B, C, D, E... etc... X, Y, Z. Just start jotting down the parts you know. Then, figure out where it goes later.

Just try some 'free-writing' and see what happens. If it's a script, start with dialogue. Worry about adding in other information later. Isn't a script (or play) mostly dialogue? (Okay you need to add in info re. scene, action, etc.) But, if you've got some funny stuff in your head - bantering between two characters, for ex. - start by writing it down.

Also, plz don't use the word re*** It's now considered an offensive term for individuals who are mentally or physically challenged.

CKJLR said:

How do you outline when you don't have a plot?

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Your plot is the process of getting your characters ready.
See http://www.youtube.com/clickokdotcodotuk

CKJLR said:

I am wholehardly sorry for using an offensive word. I did not realize I did so and I was unable to look at my PMs until today. I will not use that word again on here.

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Lots of people don't know that it's hurtful.

I hope some of the advice helped with your plotting!

Whats the climax? What has your character achieved by the climax? Why couldnt he achieve that before? How did he overcome those hurdles? Keep asking questions and eventually the plot will form.

Plot = What happens. (Man trapped in burning building)
Story = How it happens.(Who is he? How did it happen? What's the resolve?)

I'm afraid if you don't have a plot, you will not have a coherent story. My suggestion is to clarify and pin point the plot first. Try to keep it under a paragraph.