Doomed To Fail?

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grizzletoad1

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I've read a few of the threads here and they all seem to be telling me that I am doomed to fail with my hopefully soon to be self-published novel because I may not have what it takes to promote the thing. Here is my reasoning:

1. This novel is the result of 25 years (That's right, a quarter century) of work and refinement, writing, rewriting, re-rewriting and scrapping the whole thing and starting over with a new base storyline. There will NOT be another novel coming from me after this one. Ever. This one is my one and only shot. So workng on my next novel while promoting this one is not an option.

2. I don't "Tweet." With all due respect to those who think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, I don't want to tell people what I'm doing every second of the day. I find that inane, annoying and an self-invasion of my own privacy. I don't have a Twitter account, and never will.

3. Facebook. I only got on that thing in the last 2 years. I don't spend a lot of time on it and I really don't have a lot of "friends" on it because I tend to stay in contact with my friends the old fashioned way: I talk to them, either face to face or on the phone (What a novel idea! Personal contact!). So using that as a promo tool would be very limited in scope.

4. Blog. For what? Like I said, I don't have any other works in the pipeline, and never will. I don't view my life as all that exciting and I don't think I have enough "fresh" things to say to keep a blog updated every day, or week, or even month.

I do have an idea to advertise in a couple of magazines that specialize in the area of interest that my story is set on (A railroad). But that does seem to be an expensive proposition. Beyond that, what do I do to have some kind of success with my story after it hits Kindle, Smashwords and Create Space? I think I need some real help with a marketing strategy, but I have no idea what to do. Suggestions?
 

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Beyond that, what do I do to have some kind of success with my story after it hits Kindle, Smashwords and Create Space? I think I need some real help with a marketing strategy, but I have no idea what to do. Suggestions?

1. Have you submitted the book to commercial / trade publishers?

This is particularly wise if you're not engaged in spending time on PR, sales, and marketing, since the best sales strategy for a book is to publish another book, absent which, a commercial publisher has a sales staff and a marketing department.

2. Did you see the stickied thread in this very forum? How to promote your book without sounding like an SEO dweeb?

You might consider giving away review copies to bloggers who have a connection to your book, to book review blogs, and to readers on Good Reads and Library Thing.
 

grizzletoad1

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Medievalist,

As a matter of fact, I read through that sticky and that's how come I feel like I may be circling the drain here. This is all new to me. I'm just coming away from the traditional method of trying to get an agent to sell it to a publisher. After over 50 rejections, I had enough. It was time to find an alternate route and the self-publication option, which did not even exist when I first came up with this story, looked like a promising way to go. But why bother if it will only result in a couple of dozen books sold? I used to be in sales and marketing, but that was back before social media and computers took over a lot of that work. Now I'm completely at a loss to find any route to market my story beyond old fashioned hard copy advertising, and that is just too expensive to risk to take when the outcome could only be tepid sales. On the other had, it could be the spark that sends this thing into the stratosphere. When you say to submit to commercial or trade publishers, are you saying to go the traditional route? I need an agent first, and they don't seem to care for the story. What publishers do you know don't have a literary agent gurding the door like the guy at the club with the clipboard who only lets in the "beautiful people?" I've never found one yet. Trade publishers I'd deal with would only be interested in non-fiction, mostly histories, or they just publish magazines. Is there someplace else I could try to promote my story? It is going to be put out there once I get all the elements in place for it. It would be a damned shame if it only sells a couple of dozen copies.
 

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Medievalist,
As a matter of fact, I read through that sticky and that's how come I feel like I may be circling the drain here. This is all new to me. I'm just coming away from the traditional method of trying to get an agent to sell it to a publisher. After over 50 rejections, I had enough.

Did they request fulls or partials? If not, the problem may be with your query, and not your book.

But why bother if it will only result in a couple of dozen books sold?

That is in fact exactly what happens (or fewer) in terms of most self-published books.

You need to ask yourself what you want for yourself and your book.

Most book sales are based on people, not on marketing per se.

Ask yourself where, and why, you've bought books. Was it because the book itself as an item appealed to you in a book store? Was it a review? Did you read a previous book by the same author? Did someone you know, in person or via having read their work, recommend the book?

People rarely read an ad and then buy the book, even in terms of printed commercial books and printed ads, because of the ad.
 

grizzletoad1

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Only 2 partials. Patricia Ahearn rejected me, but was very gracious with her advice and information on what I could do to improve the ms. She really went the extra mile. The second guy asked for a partial back in November, and after waiting until July to trace him, has still not responded with either yes or no, so I colored that a "No". The rest were either the standard, "Sorry. Not right for our list," or no reply at all (Those are the worst. I find agents whose policy is "no reply means no interest" to be incredibly rude and inconsiderate.) The query was battered over on Query Letter Hell and reworked so many times. I really did have a harder time writing that than I did writing the ms. Boiling down 300 pages into 200 words is unbelievably difficult. So then, I guess I should just put the thing out there and be happy with the few sales I'll make. Guess I'll be able to say I actually wrote a book then, huh? Even though nobody read it!
 

Ari Meermans

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You're not alone; queries are notoriously hard to write. So, don't feel bad about that. You're in good company. Were you able to apply the advice the agent gave you? Do you have beta readers? If so, were they of any help?
 

grizzletoad1

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Ari,

Absolutely to all your questions. The agent's advice was fantastic. And the beta readers I had here on AW were just awesome. I can honestly say, they taught me how to write, not just put words together on a piece of paper (Or on a computer screen!) In all I was able to cut my very bloated, overwritten original ms down to a streamlined, fast moving story. (See the thread, Cutting Down Wordcount, Slow Going, on the MTS site.) The ms has continued to go through improvements. It seems that it'll never truely be finished until it gets published. I find it very similar to my primary hobby of model railroading. A model layout is never really finished. There's always SOMETHING that you'll find that can be improved or replaced, and that's what's been happening with this ms. Creative processes at work?
 

Ari Meermans

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They never are. I have well-published friends who've told me as soon as their books hit the press they think, "Oh shoot! I should
have . . ." and they note it down for future use. ;) Yeah, creative processes work that way.

Well, 50 rejections really aren't that many, though I'm sure it feels like it. I know it would/will to me. Here's an idea: Why don't you set yourself a time limit of about 6 months or so and continue sending out queries. That query did, after all, garner you two partial requests. Maybe all it needs is just a bit more finessing. If that doesn't work out, then you can explore the self-publishing option. We have a number of members who can help you with that.
 

EMaree

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I have to agree with Ari. 50 rejections feels overwhelming, but it's a relatively small number. (Check out this thread for a scattering of our member's own numbers.) Traditional publishing would be more suitable for you, as it doesn't have as much reliance on social media and self-promotion, so in your position I would keep trying to find an agent. Alternatively, are there any small/indie publishers you could submit to?
 
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grizzletoad1

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I put a new, very short and sweet Q letter up on QLH. If anyone wants to look at it and comment, please do. Interested in hearing feedback.
 

merrihiatt

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It is incredibly easy for a book to get lost in the shuffle of self-published titles on all sales channels. The hard part isn't putting it "out there" for people to read, it's drawing people to it so they can find it. We all struggle with marketing and promotion and there is no definitive answer as to how to do it that works for everyone. I know that's not what you want to hear. The harsh reality is that most self-published books don't sell well. Some do, and those are the ones that make the news because they are rare. We all dream that our book will be that breakout success, but chances are slim that the outcome will be in our favor. Having said that, there is nothing wrong with selling a handful of copies or several hundred copies. It's the expectation that we'll sell thousands, and in the first few months, that bring our dreams to a screeching halt. We need to be realistic with our expectations. It's great to dream big, we would never finish writing a book if we didn't, but we have to temper that dream with a hefty dose of reality or else we end up feeling as if we've failed when our dream was just too dang large to begin with.
 

frimble3

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I need an agent first, and they don't seem to care for the story.

Trade publishers I'd deal with would only be interested in non-fiction, mostly histories, or they just publish magazines. Is there someplace else I could try to promote my story?
Your description of the publishers you've tried sound like railroad publishers. The guys who publish non-fiction about railroads: books about historical railroads, or railroad operations. Or, the publishers of railroad magazines or model railroad hobby magazines.
Actually, you might try getting some of those magazines to review your book, hobbyists seem to have money to splash around. I read some of those magazines fairly regularly a while back. People who can buy accessories to make their stock cars 'moo', can afford to buy the occasional novel.
I'm assuming that the 50 rejections were from agents? Because I didn't think there were 50 railroad-interest publishers.
How many straight-up thriller or mystery publishers have you tried?
Because your query sounded good. Criminals and terrorists! Arms dealers and jihadis! The MC being with the railroad police is interesting background, and gives the story an innovative setting, but it shouldn't limit the audience.
 

shadowwalker

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Trade publishers I'd deal with would only be interested in non-fiction, mostly histories, or they just publish magazines.

I'm not sure I understand this statement. Why would you deal with non-fiction only publishers for your novel?

Anyway, after spending 25 years on this book, I wouldn't give up after only 50 rejections. If you've had your query looked at here, and have gotten a very nice rejection from the one agent, it may also be who you're sending the query to - ie, have you researched the agents to make sure they and your book are good matches? Something to consider, if you haven't already.

As to the SP marketing thing, I hear ya! One of the reasons I won't consider SP myself. Just a suggestion is to check around railroad forums - sometimes you can put a plug in free, or they have free/cheap advertising space. Heck, if you find one with library section, maybe you could even get it listed there.
 

EMaree

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After reading your query, I'm a little confused by the above line about trade publishers as well.

From your query, your story is a solidly plotted, commercial suspense/thriller novel that happens to have a railroad focus. Don't restrict yourself to publishers and agents with a railroad speciality -- any US publisher or agent that deals with suspense/thriller fiction could be interested in this.
 

Barbara R.

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Hi,

It feels as if you've ruled out just about all the marketing tools available to self-published writers---writers in general, actually, since mainstream publishers also expect their authors to help market their books through social media. Maybe it's worth re-thinking some of those categorical "Never's! I don't tweet, but it's a great tool for those who do. Using FB, I'm beginning to discover, is an acquired skill, well worth acquiring, IMO. Goodreads, too, though I'm still feeling my way there. It's all about networking---meeting people who may eventually review or feature or buy your book.

The jury's still out on blogging, as far as I'm concerned. I started a few months ago, and I'm having a blast, "meeting" interesting people, and getting thousands of hits...but have I sold a single book as a result? I don't know. I do know that publishers really, really want their writers out there in public, being accessible and generous.

One other method you might consider is working on special sales. You say your book is railroad-related. Maybe there are related organizations that might buy copies or help promote the book with articles about it. Paid ads are a very iffy way to sell books, and expensive; think how many books you'd have to sell to cover the cost.

I'm very skeptical about self-publishing for most writers who lack the means to market their work--in fact, I just wrote an article about the false claims made about self-publishing. Still, as one former student pointed out, even if you sell just a few dozen copies, that's a few dozen more than you'd have sold by sticking the ms. in a drawer.
 

grizzletoad1

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All,

The trade publishers I was refering to are just hypothentical. I've never had any dealings with any publishers because of the need for an agent to deal with them. The thought of trade publishers was put out there earlier in this thread, and the only trade publishers I knew of were of that type, hence my comment. I've been rejected by over 50 agents. I've never gotten my ms into the hands of any publisher, so I was throwing in the towel and going for the self-pub route. Now it seems why bother if the outcome is going to be only a few sales unless I shackle myself to a computer and a smart phone and spend all day flogging my story. Sent out another query last night and sent a second trace out to the one agent who asked for a partial back in December but has not gotten back to me since. I later found out that his wife has been ill, so that may explain the delay. I've got the ms formatted for Create Space and Smashwords and will make the adjustments needed to convert the Smashwords version for Kindle. I also have a graphic artist working on a cover image for me. Once that's recieved, I'll be a few hundred in the hole already. Given the return rates for self pub, I figured I have to sell at least 100 copies just to break even. Now it seems I won't even sell that many with my computer illiteracy. 25 years, on and off writing this thing. What a collosal waste of time!
 

Filigree

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Breathe, Grizzletoad. That 25 years is not a waste of time. It sounds like you've written a great book, but you're getting frustrated with the market.

Yes, many publishers only deal with agents. Some don't - even great household name publishers still take mms in the slushpile. 50 agents queried is not that many, believe me. Before you take the plunge to self-publish, try querying some more agents. Then try the publishers directly.

No matter what you do, it sounds like you have a dream platform to market your book, and should mention that in your queries. Train enthusiasts still have a big presence in the world.
 

EMaree

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What Filigree said, but I also have to stress that writing is never a waste of time. Ever. And getting published, in any form, is not a measure of your success as a writer.

There are an incredible amount of authors out there who've written great, polished books and then put them away in a drawer, never to be seen again. Some authors have done this 5 or 6 times before getting published, some ten or twenty. Even superstars like Neil Gaiman and Stephen King have had this problem.

All these books become stepping stones to publication. They build up your skills, teach you invaluable things about creating characters and worlds, or structure stories. They help shape you as a writer.
 

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Marketing your book is an important part of the process. But what you have to decide first is, are you simply writing a book? Or are you creating a vehicle? Meaning, the book was created with the specific intention of either changing the conversation, pushing a new conversation, or shifting the life of the author in a new direction?

Think about it. That will help direct your marketing efforts. Check out Corey Blake's blog piece here [link removed by mod] about that very question.. what ARE you trying to do with your book? He offers some great insight.
 
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RTCKristen, welcome to AW.

You have two posts at AW so far, and in both of them you link to that same blog which, coincidentally, has the same initials as you do.

If you carry on trying to use AW to direct traffic to your blog, you're going to get banned.

You're welcome to add a link to the site to your signature, but you're not welcome to keep directing the conversation to that site. If you're going to participate in the conversations here, participate in the conversations here.

Go and read our Newbie Guide (there's a link at the top of the page). And no more linking back. Thanks.
 
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