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Old 04-24-2012, 12:55 AM   #226
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This is definitely a series where if you have not read the books, it is going to be hard to follow at times. Though the first season was pretty faithful to the first book. Still, the second book was much larger than the first and dealt with more events and characters than the first book did.

As to Tyrion, he already suspects Roberts death was no accident and Cercie was involved. While he is a Lannister, he also likes the Starks and their sense of honor and duty. He is also resentful that he was implicated in Bran's attempted assassination and he means to find out who was behind it...

I still wonder why HBO is only agreeing to a 10 episode season? I just do not see how they are going to do season 3 in 10 episodes? I know, its a money issue, but if they weren't making money, there would be no agreement to season 3. Would it really hurt to add 2 or 3 more episodes next season?

Books 4 and 5 were even more ponderous, I don't see how they are going to handle season 4.
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:00 AM   #227
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It's money - the show is already staggeringly expensive to make. They can't afford to make more episodes per season. They're splitting A Storm of Swords into two seasons for that reason.
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:15 AM   #228
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I have a question about terminology used in AGOT.

The word Maester. I assumed to be old English or there abouts. I suspected it was not french. The American Heritage dictionary does not even list Maester and Websters list the meaning as thief, liar, douchebag and a few other choice meanings.

I like Martins use of the word as it seems devoted to one who specializes or is highly educated. Hell, I have even seen Bernard Cornwell use it a few times in his stories.

So where does Maester come from. If anyone knows, I am sure it would be or dear, sweet, Medievalist...
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:17 AM   #229
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I think it's just the word Master with an ae to make it sound more fantasy-like.
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:25 AM   #230
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That is what I suspect. I was thinking about using it in one of my stories, but if you google the word Maester, nothing but GRRM references come up and I sure as hell don't want to tangle with his lawyers.
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:34 AM   #231
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I think "Master" derives from "Magister", Latin for "Teacher". This has survived in Spanish (and probably in other Romance languages as well) whereas "Maestro", "Maestre" and "Maťse" (all derived from Magister) implies eather a teacher or an expert of a craft. For example, a teachers' guild in many Spanish-speaking countries is called a "Magisterio".
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:46 AM   #232
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While looking up Master, I found references to Magister so I am aware there is a connection between Master and Magister. But I have been unable to find any references showing Maester as a teacher or someone skilled in a particular field.

Like I said, the only definition for Maester I have found are not what I would use to signify a Master...
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:52 AM   #233
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As someone who hasn't read the books, I thought last night's episode was both awesome and a bit hard to follow. I'm still not sure why the Lannisters rounded up Arya and the gang headed to The Wall to torture them. What information did they expect to get out of them? Nor could I figure out where Mellisandre was supposed to be going. I guess she's up to some mischief against Renly?

But both of the above were spectacular to watch. Just could use some contextual clues.

Picky points - it's getting a little dicey how much power Tyrion (and Cersei) have in the midst of Joffrey being King. For the sake of humanity, I'm glad Joffrey's not the only one running things, but the lines aren't clear, and Tyrion especially seems to be getting away with a lot as just the Hand.
They could definitely do with making the setting clearer for people who haven't read the books. Arya and the others weren't taken to the Wall - nowhere near it in fact - they were taken to Harrenhal, which I think is [NOT SURE IF SPOILER]owned by The Mountain at this point in the story, and his army of rapists and murderers that he was merrily rampaging about, destroying villages with in the first book. Remember when Stark called for the arrest of The Mountain in season one. The torture wasn't really anything to do with wanting real information. No one really cares if some piss-poor village near Harrenhal has gold or jewels. Torture was just a way to pass the time.[/POSSIBLE SPOILER] [DEFINITE SPOILER BUT NOT REALLY SPOILING MUCH] In the books, the kids escape for a while after their caravan is attacked, hide out in the woods, Arya shows off her tough willingness to eat bugs to survive, and they come across a village which they initially hope to get help in. When they get there, the village has been attacked by The Mountain's men on one of their rape-and-pillage parties, and the kids are captured, mistaken for villagers, and locked up with them. [/SPOILER]

It doesn't help that in the books the people that attack Arya's caravan-to-the-wall and the people that capture them and take them to Harrenhal are completely different people. It doesn't really make sense for the Kingsguard to take a diversion to Harrenhal, when you'd expect them to return straight to King's Landing with what they believe to be Gendry's corpse.
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:54 AM   #234
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Something I always found interesting was the use of names in Westeros to point out the different cultures of Westeros with the Targaryen having Latin-based names, the people from the North with a mix-mash of Germanic and Celtic and the Vandal-descended people with more modern English and French names.

I know, it's a simplificaction of the Celts, the Anglo-Saxons and the Normans but I like the touch.
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:55 AM   #235
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I think it hangs together in the show, albeit differently than it does in the books. In the show the goldcloaks from King's Landing recruit some nearby Lannisters to help them search for Gendry - that's what Ser Amory Lorch says when he shows up. So I think it makes sense that the Lannisters then bring them back to their base at Harrenhal.
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:57 AM   #236
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While looking up Master, I found references to Magister so I am aware there is a connection between Master and Magister. But I have been unable to find any references showing Maester as a teacher or someone skilled in a particular field.

Like I said, the only definition for Maester I have found are not what I would use to signify a Master...
Yes, I guess is a bit tweaked to give it a medieval air. Like "Ser" instead of "Sir" and "Eddard" instead of "Edward".
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Old 04-24-2012, 02:02 AM   #237
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I think it hangs together in the show, albeit differently than it does in the books. In the show the goldcloaks from King's Landing recruit some nearby Lannisters to help them search for Gendry - that's what Ser Amory Lorch says when he shows up. So I think it makes sense that the Lannisters then bring them back to their base at Harrenhal.
Ah, that makes more sense. I suppose then the Goldcloaks can head off home with their boy-corpse without having a load of prisoners to bother with.
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Old 04-24-2012, 02:02 AM   #238
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Basically, the series skipped chapters in Arya PoV by having the caravan attacked and the kids captured by the same people. This I don't mind, though we do miss a lot of Arya's character building.
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:40 AM   #239
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I think the main character building for Arya will occur with what happens while in and when they leave Harrenhal if that part of the plot is kept intact.
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:35 AM   #240
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I agree. Arya's storylines got tedious in Clash of Kings and Storm of Swords (at least until the end of SoS). I'm glad they're cutting some of that out. We'll get plenty of "Weasel stew" at Harrenhal.

I thought this last episode kind of returned to the shorter scenes, a lot of material crammed into an hour format. It actually felt shorter.

Highlights for me:
  • Tyrion, obviously. Love watching him maneuver and work his magic.
  • Stannis and Renly's meeting. I know it was different than in the books, but I really enjoyed this part.
  • Catelyn and Littlefinger's interaction. Good on that as well.
  • Margaery. I love the small moments we see with her--things that weren't in the book. I wonder if we'll ever get her POV.
  • Shadow thingy from Melisandre's womanly parts. Oh yeah! That was excellent! They sure left that on a cliffhanger.
  • We finally got to see Tywin! I just loved that section in Clash of Kings, when Arya became his "page," completely unaware that that grubby girl was, in fact, Arya Stark. Always made me snicker.

Things I'm wondering:
  • If the chick that gave Robb a hard time is the "Jeyne" character from the books.
  • If they'll beef up Dany's time in Qarth. After she.... >>>> visits the House of the Undying, I'm pretty sure she has to leave pronto, right? <<<<
  • On Arya and Nymeria.... >>>> Didn't people start to hear about Nymeria tearing stuff up by now? Maybe not. I remember the she-bitch direwolf leading a pack of other wolves . . . <<<<
  • I really want more Davos. I love the actor playing him.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:04 AM   #241
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We finally got to see Tywin! I just loved that section in Clash of Kings, when Arya became his "page," completely unaware that that grubby girl was, in fact, Arya Stark. Always made me snicker.
I think you mean Roose Bolton, right? I don't think Tywin would be walking and taking with Robb so friendly like.

>>>>> that scene is interesting considering what happens at the Red Wedding<<<<<
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:33 PM   #242
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One thing that I wasn't certain about: was it clear where Davos (the Onion Knight) had taken the Red Woman? In the books, it's in his POV, so it's very clear. But what about in last night's episode?
Oh, you silly book people. I asked around here (all non-bookies) and everyone assumed they had slipped underneath Renly's camp. Interestingly, both here and elsewhere among my nonbookie pals, the sudden explosion (seepage?) of dark magic in this episode was something of a WTF in a series which has been very subtle with its magicks. Other than cute baby dragons, a couple of long shots of some white walkers, and an (is it a dream?) episode of Bran inside his wolf's head, there hasn't been much magic. And then out pops a Heartless from that red-haired chick's lady parts.

But honestly, perhaps due to the fact that I watched the first season on DVD, this episode thing is really not working for me. Each hour feels too short, and seems to just gather narrative momentum when the end credits pop up!
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Old 04-24-2012, 03:05 PM   #243
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I love how wtf everyone is about the shadowbaby.
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:01 PM   #244
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I'm wondering, though I read the first couple of books a long time ago, whether Stannis's son was the shadow baby or whether Melisandre is still pregnant separately and apart from that.
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:03 PM   #245
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I'm wondering, though I read the first couple of books a long time ago, whether Stannis's son was the shadow baby or whether Melisandre is still pregnant separately and apart from that.
I'm pretty sure that was his baby because her stomach looked flat afterwards. Poor Stannis. Wanted a real baby and got a shadow-man instead.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:36 PM   #246
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I have serious doubts that was Stannis's son vs a demon summoning. Reason, its never talked about again in the books...
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:02 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by MttStrn View Post
I think you mean Roose Bolton, right? I don't think Tywin would be walking and taking with Robb so friendly like.

>>>>> that scene is interesting considering what happens at the Red Wedding<<<<<

That's what I get for commenting before I finish the episode. That was Tywin that just rode in, taking Roose Bolton's place from the books.
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:33 PM   #248
thothguard51
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I am sure Roose Bolton will show up sooner than later.
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Old 04-25-2012, 02:03 AM   #249
MttStrn
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He did show up talking to Robb. He was the guy who wanted him to start torturing people. That's what confused me since in the books he's the one who makes Arya his cup bearer.
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Old 04-25-2012, 02:06 AM   #250
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Parametric is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsParametric is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsParametric is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsParametric is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsParametric is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsParametric is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsParametric is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsParametric is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsParametric is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsParametric is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsParametric is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Roose Bolton has an awesome voice. I could listen to him reading a shopping list.
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