Continue College, or Pursue a Dream?
- Thread starter mortimerjackson
- Start date
- Status
Stay in school. A degree opens doors. Even if you don't know what you want to do, finish it. You'll be further ahead if you do.
Forgive the slightly disjointed metaphor, but the publishing business is sort of like a train.
You've got to have that engine--your first marketable book that actually takes you somewhere. But if you want to have a career in publishing, you can't stop there. You've got to keep adding to the end of it. Put out another book while you're working on the next. And have the outline for the one after that. Think of them as cars on your train...and you want that train to be as long as possible.
But again with the train metaphor--it's going to take a while to get up to speed. That "engine" is going to take a year or two, maybe longer, before it actually gets moving, and by then, you want to have a whole series of cars behind it.
The way most writers handle this is by writing that first, important novel while they get their financial support from elsewhere--a day job, their parents, their spouse, whatever. Who can afford to spend months banging out a novel, then wait a year or more for it to start making any money?
But there are two things to keep in mind. One: the vast majority of those authors will STILL never make enough to live on, and Two: for a novel to really be an "engine," it needs to either make enough money to comfortably support you while you write your next couple or be the one that lands you an agent and a nice publishing house, thereby opening the doors for your next novel.
If none of your self-published ventures have done either, they aren't proper "engines." And because there are no barriers to self-publishing and anyone can self publish their grocery list if they so choose, they don't count as publishing credits.
Sure, you can point to self-published novels that impressed agents...but only because they made enough money to support their authors. You really need to meet at least one of the two "engine" criteria I mentioned above. Of course, meeting both is better.
So here's my take: if you don't have that "engine" novel yet, stay in school. You're going to need a day job during the time it takes to create one and get it moving.
If you do have one, and it's already working for you, there's probably no harm in taking a year or two off in order to see where it takes you.
But even if your next book is a runaway best-seller, I still think it would be nice for you to have your degree. It looks nice in the back-cover copy, and even runaway best sellers don't support their authors for life, most of the time.
You've got to have that engine--your first marketable book that actually takes you somewhere. But if you want to have a career in publishing, you can't stop there. You've got to keep adding to the end of it. Put out another book while you're working on the next. And have the outline for the one after that. Think of them as cars on your train...and you want that train to be as long as possible.
But again with the train metaphor--it's going to take a while to get up to speed. That "engine" is going to take a year or two, maybe longer, before it actually gets moving, and by then, you want to have a whole series of cars behind it.
The way most writers handle this is by writing that first, important novel while they get their financial support from elsewhere--a day job, their parents, their spouse, whatever. Who can afford to spend months banging out a novel, then wait a year or more for it to start making any money?
But there are two things to keep in mind. One: the vast majority of those authors will STILL never make enough to live on, and Two: for a novel to really be an "engine," it needs to either make enough money to comfortably support you while you write your next couple or be the one that lands you an agent and a nice publishing house, thereby opening the doors for your next novel.
If none of your self-published ventures have done either, they aren't proper "engines." And because there are no barriers to self-publishing and anyone can self publish their grocery list if they so choose, they don't count as publishing credits.
Sure, you can point to self-published novels that impressed agents...but only because they made enough money to support their authors. You really need to meet at least one of the two "engine" criteria I mentioned above. Of course, meeting both is better.
So here's my take: if you don't have that "engine" novel yet, stay in school. You're going to need a day job during the time it takes to create one and get it moving.
If you do have one, and it's already working for you, there's probably no harm in taking a year or two off in order to see where it takes you.
But even if your next book is a runaway best-seller, I still think it would be nice for you to have your degree. It looks nice in the back-cover copy, and even runaway best sellers don't support their authors for life, most of the time.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2010
- Messages
- 4,226
- Reaction score
- 528
I'd stay in school.
If you really wanted, perhaps go part-time for a semester or two to free up time for writing.
But, I'd personally stick with full-time.
There's a good chance you will not be able to make a living from writing fiction. And you want to be able to get a decent 'day job'. A degree can open up doors. I'd recommend doing some research into what you can do with a degree in your major.
Another option, possibly, would be a diploma or certificate of some kind. I don't know how this sort of thing works in the US. Where I live (Ontario), there are universities (degree-granting) and colleges (diplomas and certificates, usually, though some now have degree programs). Colleges are usually 2-3 programs. Programs include: business, dental hygienist, paralegal, vet. technician, engineering technology, etc...Maybe these are community colleges in the US. I'm not sure. Anyways, these sorts of programs are geared towards getting you a job. Here, sometimes people who have degrees go to college afterwards to help them in the job market.
If you really wanted, perhaps go part-time for a semester or two to free up time for writing.
But, I'd personally stick with full-time.
There's a good chance you will not be able to make a living from writing fiction. And you want to be able to get a decent 'day job'. A degree can open up doors. I'd recommend doing some research into what you can do with a degree in your major.
Another option, possibly, would be a diploma or certificate of some kind. I don't know how this sort of thing works in the US. Where I live (Ontario), there are universities (degree-granting) and colleges (diplomas and certificates, usually, though some now have degree programs). Colleges are usually 2-3 programs. Programs include: business, dental hygienist, paralegal, vet. technician, engineering technology, etc...Maybe these are community colleges in the US. I'm not sure. Anyways, these sorts of programs are geared towards getting you a job. Here, sometimes people who have degrees go to college afterwards to help them in the job market.
Last edited:
You're paying $2,000 a semester?
Do you have any idea how inexpensive that diploma is? If you want to work for a publisher or some company in the publishing field someday, why are you studying political science?
This is my theory on a huge contributing factor to the job crisis today for recent grads: too many students study simply what interests them, but make no effort to intern, etc., and make their learning applicable to the work force.
Why not double-major in business and in creative writing? Or in business and accounting or marketing or finance or something that will help you take this self-publishing thing you are trying to build to the next level?
If political science is a force in your writing, then double-major in political science and something business-related that will actually make a difference in your pursuit.
If you really want to be in school for the right reasons, stay.
If not -- if you are just studying political science because you feel like you have to study something and it has no role in your future, particularly at 22 years old -- then you are probably wasting your money.
Education for the sake of education is a wonderful thing, but it doesn't sound like that's something you appreciate enough to pursue.
Do you have any idea how inexpensive that diploma is? If you want to work for a publisher or some company in the publishing field someday, why are you studying political science?
This is my theory on a huge contributing factor to the job crisis today for recent grads: too many students study simply what interests them, but make no effort to intern, etc., and make their learning applicable to the work force.
Why not double-major in business and in creative writing? Or in business and accounting or marketing or finance or something that will help you take this self-publishing thing you are trying to build to the next level?
If political science is a force in your writing, then double-major in political science and something business-related that will actually make a difference in your pursuit.
If you really want to be in school for the right reasons, stay.
If not -- if you are just studying political science because you feel like you have to study something and it has no role in your future, particularly at 22 years old -- then you are probably wasting your money.
Education for the sake of education is a wonderful thing, but it doesn't sound like that's something you appreciate enough to pursue.
Last edited:
I left high school at sixteen, went to a city college for two years before dropping out, and now make a living as a writer.
I dropped out in part because I viewed getting a back-up degree as an admission of future failure and refused to admit any such thing. For me, it was writing or bust, and I ended up making a go of it.
I think you should probably get the degree.
First, because education is always a good thing, and there's a structure to university that ensures a relatively well-rounded one. I certainly have embarrassing gaps in my education that I'd like to fill.
Second, because it's awfully hard to write when you're hungry. It might be romantic to think about working some menial job during the day and writing at night, but even if you like mindless work, as I did and do, the stress of wondering how you're gonna make rent is worse than anything you're gonna get from a well-paying nine-to-five. Money is always better than no money, and there's a pretty good chance you'll make more with a degree.
Third, because you simply don't know what you might want to do in the future. I love writing. It's incredible to me that I get paid to do it. But now that it's my full-time gig, I find within me a great desire to teach, and I can't teach anywhere: no degree. This is a problem I'd never have anticipated.
The simple fact is this: it's better to have a degree you don't need than to not have one you do.
I dropped out in part because I viewed getting a back-up degree as an admission of future failure and refused to admit any such thing. For me, it was writing or bust, and I ended up making a go of it.
I think you should probably get the degree.
First, because education is always a good thing, and there's a structure to university that ensures a relatively well-rounded one. I certainly have embarrassing gaps in my education that I'd like to fill.
Second, because it's awfully hard to write when you're hungry. It might be romantic to think about working some menial job during the day and writing at night, but even if you like mindless work, as I did and do, the stress of wondering how you're gonna make rent is worse than anything you're gonna get from a well-paying nine-to-five. Money is always better than no money, and there's a pretty good chance you'll make more with a degree.
Third, because you simply don't know what you might want to do in the future. I love writing. It's incredible to me that I get paid to do it. But now that it's my full-time gig, I find within me a great desire to teach, and I can't teach anywhere: no degree. This is a problem I'd never have anticipated.
The simple fact is this: it's better to have a degree you don't need than to not have one you do.
Last edited:
I just want to second this.
I started in science, in a very specialised equine field. I took 2 degrees in it, devoted my time to study and advancing my knowledge. Once I graduated, 20 grand in debt, I worked in that feild for a couple of years before realising that I wanted to do something else. So I started another degree, changed day job and off we go.
Right now I'm looking at my day job and thinking it's time for a change, maybe I'll take a law degree this time so I can have the full set.
People change their mind and their careers all the time, and I would caution against throwing away any backup option.
There's no time limit on creativity. That said, I do wish I'd started writing fiction seriously earlier in my career. But I don't have more than that one regret.
I have a BAH in English and a journalism diploma. Because of my schooling, I have enjoyed a thus-far 13-year career in technical writing. It's challenging, relatively lucrative and uses my skills as a writer. Alongside the full-time career, I've written dozens of short stories (2 s/s contest prizes) and 5 novels, one of which is being published in the spring.
School first, dream later. If you can somehow tie school to your dream, so much the better.
GL.
I have a BAH in English and a journalism diploma. Because of my schooling, I have enjoyed a thus-far 13-year career in technical writing. It's challenging, relatively lucrative and uses my skills as a writer. Alongside the full-time career, I've written dozens of short stories (2 s/s contest prizes) and 5 novels, one of which is being published in the spring.
School first, dream later. If you can somehow tie school to your dream, so much the better.
GL.
As someone who has opted for degrees in a lucrative science over studying English or writing or being a starving artist, being pragmatic isn't very romantic, but tends to pay off better in the long run. I don't really have enough time to write now, but the promise of a stable, low-stress, well-paying job is a rather nice prospect to have to support my writing in the future.
ETA: Which is not to say there's anything wrong with an English degree. I just like nicer things than it pays. And I like science, too. Though the dearth of people to whom I can relate in it w.r.t. the arts is disappointing.
ETA: Which is not to say there's anything wrong with an English degree. I just like nicer things than it pays. And I like science, too. Though the dearth of people to whom I can relate in it w.r.t. the arts is disappointing.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2011
- Messages
- 1,598
- Reaction score
- 335
College, college, college.
I can't be bothered to read the whole thread, because there really isn't any option. I know I probably sound like your mom, or big sister or God knows what, but if you don't want to end up spending your best years at some unemployment office, you finish your college.
Okay. Now go do your homework.
I can't be bothered to read the whole thread, because there really isn't any option. I know I probably sound like your mom, or big sister or God knows what, but if you don't want to end up spending your best years at some unemployment office, you finish your college.
Okay. Now go do your homework.
+2
I did the same thing. Contrary to what many people will tell you, it IS possible to succeed at a job you don't care for and make a good living doing it. The key is to make sure you keep working on your writing. It's a tough balance, but I like my creature comforts, and money's the only way to get them. I find it much easier to write when I'm not stressing about paying my mortgage.
And chances are you can still find something that interests you. For those who are lucky enough to be able to go to college (a phrase that really shouldn't have to be qualified like that in this day and age, alas), finding a field that pays and interests you shouldn't be too difficult. Those who say they can't just haven't looked hard enough. You don't have to love it. It doesn't have to be your passion. Just something you find interesting.
And don't let classes get in the way of learning.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2005
- Messages
- 23,708
- Reaction score
- 10,661
- Location
- In a world of my own making
- Website
- shadowferret.wordpress.com
This.
And if I could from my smartphone, I'd hunt down every link on AW that discusses just how hard it is to make a living at writing alone.
Plus, I fear for the future. It seems more markets devalue writing ability ( and many writers encourage this by working for them) now then ever before. Just look at the internet with examiner.com and others that pay pennies PER VIEW!
Consider that every day another newspaper or magazine folds while at the same time another of these lousy paying internet markets spring up, the future of writing as a viable career seems very grim.
I haven't been able to go to college since I graduated in 2000 because no one in my immediate family wanted me to go to college and they went out of their way to make damn sure I couldn't go. They didn't provide me with transportation, they didn't help me out with applying for a scholarship, nothing. My grandmother decided that I flat out didn't need to go to college or work, so she ensured I wouldn't be able to. For 11 years I haven't been able to go to college, and I plan on doing so to pursue degrees in everything literature and a career in medical billing and coding, and no matter how hard it becomes for me, I promise to press on and never, ever drop out, because I've never been characterized as someone who throws in the towel. To me, college is my way to pursue my dream. Without degrees I have no credibility, personally. I am the kind of person that needs backup.
My point: Don't drop out. Don't give up. Press on. You've got a lifetime ahead of you to achieve success as a writer.
My point: Don't drop out. Don't give up. Press on. You've got a lifetime ahead of you to achieve success as a writer.
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2005
- Messages
- 2,719
- Reaction score
- 551
- Location
- Bellevue, WA
- Website
- www.CascadeWriters.com
You could always change colleges -- go to someplace like The Evergreen State College, where you can design your own classes and degree.
Just a suggestion.
It took me 14 years to finish my BA degree, but I am very proud to have it.
Good luck to you!
Just a suggestion.
It took me 14 years to finish my BA degree, but I am very proud to have it.
Good luck to you!
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2008
- Messages
- 2,781
- Reaction score
- 668
I didn't say you *can't* learn the stuff you learn in school on your own. I just said school makes it easier. Whether it's Kant's Ethics or Linear Algebra or Astrophysics, it helps to be in a course structured to teach you the subject, taught by a Professor who's an expert, and with plenty of fellow peers to consult, and learn from.
True, everyone gets degrees, in part, because they want a job. However, don't be so quick to imply that this is the end-all-be-all reason. If I were only interested in getting a job, I would probably have picked a much more practical major than philosophy. And there are plenty of people like me. Sure, these same people make jokes about how they're going to be jobless, bemoan that what they learn in school isn't really applicable to the real world, and yet, give them a chance to do it over, and I'm sure a lot of them wouldn't change a thing. I wouldn't.
Because I do believe education derives only a very small part of it's value from the fact that it makes it easier to get a job.
Last edited:
My folks weren't able to help me. They don't earn a lot and they couldn't contribute to my university education. I paid for my own driving lessons and bought my own car when I was 22. Until then I rode the bus or walked whereever I needed to go.
I hunted out the courses, I applied for funding, grants and bursaries on my own. I did it all on my own.
Your folks didn't STOP you going to uni, they just didn't help you.
There are many, many people in that situation and they don't let it stop them.
It's nothing to do with your grandmother. If you want to go then go.
Don't rely on other people to facilitate your dreams and goals for you. And don't make other people the excuse for you not reaching for them.
Last edited:
Do what you're really interested in and passionate about. There are already too many frustrated people working jobs they don't like.
Go and see what else is out there, why not combine a year of travelling with volunteer work or wwoofing (www.wwoof.org) and writing?
That being said - if you're writing doesn't pan out, be prepared to live with the consequences They don't have to be dire, but they can be for a little while. My experience has been though, that if you have a strong internal compass pulling you into one direction, it's best to listen to yourself and not others.
Go and see what else is out there, why not combine a year of travelling with volunteer work or wwoofing (www.wwoof.org) and writing?
That being said - if you're writing doesn't pan out, be prepared to live with the consequences
They don't have to be dire, but they can be for a little while. My experience has been though, that if you have a strong internal compass pulling you into one direction, it's best to listen to yourself and not others.
Definitely get the degree! From what i have learned it is a tough world in the reality of publishing books that you write. Unless you get lucky or are fortunate in the response, you will certainly not get rich.
Land that diploma and a job and then begin living your dream!
Land that diploma and a job and then begin living your dream!
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2011
- Messages
- 1,001
- Reaction score
- 63
I faced this same problem. I'm currently a Sophomore working towards a double major of History/Education. This semester was rough for financial, personal, and many other reasons. Sadly I may have even failed a class for the first time in my life (being a required algebra course). But in the end I decided that even though I want to be a writer if for some reason I fail at achieving that dream I'd rather not have to flip-burgers for the rest of my life.
- Status