Is there a place for my novel?

Undercover · Oct 2, 2011

I always usually say a "thank you for reading" even though they declined if on a partial or full. If just on a query, I don't respond. That would be too much work and I don't think it's necessary.

But when they are rude, like say for instance, they ask for a full, then send you a Dear Author post card...then I don't say a word. If they are going to be that cold (like I have gotten in the past, that example I mentioned and everything) then I'm sorry...they ain't gonna get a "thank you for reading" out of me. And like Always said, I wouldn't query them again on a different ms. No Thanks.

Jamesaritchie · Oct 2, 2011

scarletpeaches said:
I can definitely see Alwaysinspired's point on this. As writers, we have it drilled into us: professionalism at all times. So when the higher-ups, whose representation or help we seek, fail to follow the same rule, it seems more than a trifle unfair. They get away with it, while we would received an instant rejection for the same type of behaviour.

Maybe, but, really, was that agent's actions unprofessional? What did she do, other that be honest with someone she doesn't represent?

Is professionalism judged by how polite we are, by whether or not we make someone else feel good? If so, I don't want a professional agent or a professional editor. Both can be scathing to each other, and to writers they represent or edit.

A professional agent is one who manages to find clients with books she can sell, and who manages to sell those books to good publishes. She's an agent who puts in the hours, who studies the markets, who goes the extra mile to get the best possible contract for a client. They're polite when they need to be, and impolite when it's called for.

Is it really unprofessional to just write "No, thanks!" on a query letter, a or even to tell a writer you never want to hear from them again? It may hurt the writer's feelings, but some of the best agents and editors out there have always done both these things.

Yes, as writers we have to be professional, but I don't remember this meaning we always have to be polite, either. We have to put in the hours, we have to study and practice and read. We have to learn grammar, punctuation, and format. We have to submit to appropriate markets. On and on.

But the writer who hasn't told an agent or editor they're full of beetle dung hasn't dealt with enough agents and editors.

Doing every phase of your job well is professionalism, but I'm not sure it's an agent or editor's job to always be polite with new writers they don't want to deal with.

Alwaysinspired · Oct 2, 2011

Jamesaritchie said:
If the opportunity arises, don't do that. Showing you can match rudeness for rudeness just means you probably won't get any agent. It's actually pretty common, and many of them don't bother with the "thanks" part. I've seen more than one "No!" scribbled on a query letter, or on the first page of a manuscript.

I've also seen a "Hell, no!" I've known some writers who really did get blasted by rejections, including one just a couple of weeks ago who received a "Burn this piece of garbage, bury it ten feet deep, and consider that ground barren for a hundred years." Not original, but effective.

Though perhaps the most discouraging was a writer I know who received a rejection that said, "Please do not submit anything else to me."

Beside, sometimes polite doesn't get the job done. Sometimes rightly, sometimes wrongly, there are writers you do not want to hear from again. Sometimes you hate what they write, sometimes you hate how they write, sometimes you just get pissed off at so many grammar and punctuation errors, and sometimes something about the writer just rubs you the wrong way, but for whatever reason, you don't want to hear from them again. Being polite means you will hear from them again. Probably over and over.

I see your point. Yes, there are some people that should not be pursuing a profession in writing PERIOD, because they just don’t have enough talent. Those aren’t the people I’ve been thinking about when I’ve been posting my replies to this thread. I believe people who have a "calling" for this profession know they possess talent, but maybe their skills just need refining. As we all know, strengthening writing skills will only happen if someone continues to write a lot. Unfortunately, for some people, being told your work should be burned will probably dissuade them from working to improve their writing skills and that's a shame. Yes, the writing world is a very harsh place and probably always will be, but now that I think about it, maybe sometimes it’s the only way to weed out those who truly don’t belong. At the same time, it will push those who do belong to do their best work. Overall, I still think most writers deserve a "decent" rejection. I won't even mention the word polite anymore

Mr Flibble · Oct 3, 2011

Lmc71775 said:
But when they are rude, like say for instance, they ask for a full, then send you a Dear Author post card...

That's not rude. Curt perhaps. Not rude, to me anyway. There is a difference. Any kind of editorial note a) takes time an agent doesn't have and b) opens you up to recieve more correspondence from someone you've indicated you don't want to do business with (Yes, but if you just look at page 253 you'll see two words that indicate the whole problem with J's motivation is false!!!!! You obviously didn't read it!!! If you just read it again...etc etc')*

Any comment other than 'not for me', or words to that effect, a comment directly on your story is a bonus. Not what you deserve or expect.

Alwaysinspired said:
Yes, there are some people that should not be pursuing a profession in writing PERIOD, because they just don’t have enough talent. <snip> I believe people who have a "calling" for this profession know they possess talent, but maybe their skills just need refining.

The former often 'know' in their head that they are the latter.

It's not the agent's job to tell them it ain't so. And it's the former that have led to the agent saying something curt just in case there's a nut job at the other end...

You have read about the nut jobs, right? Even if it's not nut jobs but people replying wanting an in depth analysis - the agent doesn't have time. When you get an agent do you want all their time being taken up with sending nice littel personal replies with feel good comments to people they are turning down? Or do you want them out there, selling your book? There are only so many hours in a day.

This is business, not a 'let's make sure everyone feels good' party. Curt is fine by me - perfectly businesslike. As long as they aren't outright rude (Piss off and die, or one of JAR's examples) then what's the problem?

* I don't know if you have the doorstep god squad in the US. But it's kind of like that. I used to get doorstepped once a week, regular as clockwork. These two old biddies were determined. Oh yes. Why? Because I engaged them in conversation the first time, so as to be polite. Mistake. Took me months of weekly 'no thanks, really...'. Because I couldn't be rude to them. And they took that 'not outright rude even if she's saying no' as encouragement.

scarletpeaches · Oct 3, 2011

Jamesaritchie said:
Yes, as writers we have to be professional, but I don't remember this meaning we always have to be polite, either.

...

But the writer who hasn't told an agent or editor they're full of beetle dung hasn't dealt with enough agents and editors.

Quite.

You never struck me as a person who was well-acquainted with good manners anyway.

Nonny · Oct 3, 2011

scarletpeaches said:
I got another rejection from an agent who recommended I read her book on how to write book proposals. That pretty much guaranteed I wouldn't be reading her book, or submitting to her again.

Then there was the one with a short rejection on a compliments slip, attached to a postcard promoting a just-published novel by another of the agent's clients.

Same story there. Won't be buying the book, or subbing there ever. Again.

Hah! I got a rejection like that once from an anthology. They then recommended I take their $500 class on how to write a short story. I was like, erm, yeahhhh.......

It really seemed like an up and up press, too. I was very miffed.

Nonny · Oct 3, 2011

Bottom line: A rejection is a rejection. Some are friendlier than others. It doesn't really matter. It's still a "no."

There are some extraordinary works out there that took a long time to find a home because they were different. You always see agents and editors saying they want something different -- but too different is a tough sell. Until someone sells it, it takes off, and then they want tons more like it.

Unless you get some phenomenal feedback from a rejection, try not to put too much thought into it. Just send it on to the next place on your list.

And keep writing your next book.

amrose · Oct 3, 2011

Nonny said:
Hah! I got a rejection like that once from an anthology. They then recommended I take their $500 class on how to write a short story. I was like, erm, yeahhhh.......

It really seemed like an up and up press, too. I was very miffed.

This bothers me more than a no response, curt or rude response. If someone refers me to a paid course they run or an editor I have to pay or rec a book to me they or one of their clients wrote I would not re-query.

Don't mind if they have links in a sig, but please don't promo me in our business correspondence. Thing is, I'm sure they get a lot of sales that way.

Alwaysinspired · Oct 3, 2011

IdiotsRUs said:
That's not rude. Curt perhaps. Not rude, to me anyway. There is a difference. Any kind of editorial note a) takes time an agent doesn't have and b) opens you up to recieve more correspondence from someone you've indicated you don't want to do business with (Yes, but if you just look at page 253 you'll see two words that indicate the whole problem with J's motivation is false!!!!! You obviously didn't read it!!! If you just read it again...etc etc')*

Any comment other than 'not for me', or words to that effect, a comment directly on your story is a bonus. Not what you deserve or expect.

The former often 'know' in their head that they are the latter.

It's not the agent's job to tell them it ain't so. And it's the former that have led to the agent saying something curt just in case there's a nut job at the other end...

You have read about the nut jobs, right? Even if it's not nut jobs but people replying wanting an in depth analysis - the agent doesn't have time. When you get an agent do you want all their time being taken up with sending nice littel personal replies with feel good comments to people they are turning down? Or do you want them out there, selling your book? There are only so many hours in a day.

This is business, not a 'let's make sure everyone feels good' party. Curt is fine by me - perfectly businesslike. As long as they aren't outright rude (Piss off and die, or one of JAR's examples) then what's the problem?

* I don't know if you have the doorstep god squad in the US. But it's kind of like that. I used to get doorstepped once a week, regular as clockwork. These two old biddies were determined. Oh yes. Why? Because I engaged them in conversation the first time, so as to be polite. Mistake. Took me months of weekly 'no thanks, really...'. Because I couldn't be rude to them. And they took that 'not outright rude even if she's saying no' as encouragement.

Yes, I know about the nut jobs and obviously no one wants to deal with them, least of all a busy agent. I can only speak for myself when I say I have never requested indepth analysis of why someone was rejecting my work; would never even think to. To me, it would be a waste of my time to even pose the question, because I know it's not the agent's responsibility to tell me anything. I'm not looking for a feel good party, or for an agent to let me down easy. In a perfect world, like I said before, I'm content with "Sorry, it just wasn't a fit for me; maybe someone else will feel differently." They don't even need to wish me luck finding someone else.

Mr Flibble · Oct 4, 2011

Oh, I wasn't suggesting you would ask for the analysius - just that the people who do, etc, are why you get the curt responses. After all there are people out there who would find "Sorry, it just wasn't a fit for me; maybe someone else will feel differently." rude

Have you ever seen this? The first entry? A perfectly polite rejection, and someone takes exception to it. The Rejection Queen blog was devoted to picking apart rejection letters and getting pissy about them - because many, many writers don't realise the important thing: they aren't personal. You may understand that, you may not think a polite no isn't an invitation into conversation, but the agent doesn't know that when they send.

However they word the rejection, people get the hump. Damned from every side.

Personally I'd get a big rubber stamp done for snail mails. It would say NO! in two inch high letters, surrounded by hearts and birds. I would use a cheerful purple ink too. But then, I'm a bit more evil than your average curt agent

flygal716 · Oct 4, 2011

IdiotsRUs said:
Have you ever seen this? The first entry? A perfectly polite rejection, and someone takes exception to it. The Rejection Queen blog was devoted to picking apart rejection letters and getting pissy about them - because many, many writers don't realise the important thing: they aren't personal.

That was a great read!

Twizzle · Oct 4, 2011

Jamesaritchie said:
Yes, as writers we have to be professional, but I don't remember this meaning we always have to be polite, either.

Merriam-Webster

professional: (2) exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace

polite: (2a) marked by an appearance of consideration, tact, deference, or courtesy

courteous: (2) marked by respect for and consideration of others

Italics, mine. Irony, I see it.

kaitie · Oct 4, 2011

The real irony about the handwritten "No thanks" is that back when I first started, one of the things people disliked was a typed form rejection. Handwritten anything meant the agent had taken the time to do more than stuff a preprinted sheet of paper into an envelope.

It would actually have been considered a sign that the agent cared that it was handwritten. I personally think these days it doesn't matter what you do, someone will find fault with it.

Is there a place for my novel?

Undercover

I got it covered

Jamesaritchie

Alwaysinspired

Mr Flibble

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

scarletpeaches

Nonny

Serve no master but your ambition

Nonny

Serve no master but your ambition

amrose

is Envy Augustine

Alwaysinspired

Mr Flibble

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

flygal716

Jump in the way of good luck

Twizzle

Cluck that.

kaitie

With great power comes