Return of a Man Named PAMB and its Quotes

merrihiatt

Writing! Writing! Writing!
Absolute Sage
Requiescat In Pace
Registered
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
4,001
Reaction score
477
Location
Pacific Northwest, Washington
Website
merrihiatt.com
What did you feel when you found out that Publish America thought your manuscript was good enough to publish????

PA doesn't read manuscripts that are submitted. A book is "good enough to publish" if it meets their self-proclaimed "low-barrier" of acceptance.

This is one of the illusions PA gives new authors -- that they actually read manuscript submissions. Nowhere on PA's website or in the contract does it state that PA will read your manuscript. It seems like the first thing a publisher would do (and real publishers do read submissions), but then again, we're talking about PA.
 

PVish

Cat hair collector
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 24, 2005
Messages
1,641
Reaction score
263
Location
slightly off center
Website
peevishpen.blogspot.com
How are things growing in the FB garden of misinformation? Well, there's this:

For all the "anti-PA" junk that's out there, I did a little research. Google is my friend. I did a basic search on publishing companies, and save the big companies, I didn't find many out there that would a) Readily publish a first time or relatively unknown author and b) Do it for free. Except for PA, these were Christian based companies and chances are they would not accept the R-rated manuscript for Trip Four. Even with my limited experience, I have found that publishing is not for the faint-hearted. I'm sticking with PA, and hope that they make the decision to publish [title redacted.
Another adds adds:
Amen to that! So will I! I had tried a publishing company before going to PA. They wanted to publish my work, but (here's the fine print)they wanted a 3,000 dollar investment from me before putting it to print. I was like WOW! Thanks Scrooge! I'm already poor darn it!
. . . and the original poster replies:
Well when I was on Google and saw 'free information' from a publisher, I knew that it was fee based. Also I'm finding that publishing companies are in the practice of disparaging other publishing companies. IMO PA does it for free, and that drives business from the 'fee based' companies. They're running scared. The economy sucks, and people don't have the extra cash to put up just to get published. Just my humble opinion.

PA's response:
You just hit the nail on the head. For twelve years this small crowd of hecklers have tried to prove only one thing: that PublishAmerica does not publish someone's book for free after all. And after 50,000 evidences that, really, every book is produced and published for absolutely free, and made available to a worldwide market for free, they still insist that it ain't so. And that the earth is flat, and Elvis still lives. And the astronauts never went to the moon either...

*sigh*
 

merrihiatt

Writing! Writing! Writing!
Absolute Sage
Requiescat In Pace
Registered
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
4,001
Reaction score
477
Location
Pacific Northwest, Washington
Website
merrihiatt.com
You just hit the nail on the head. For twelve years this small crowd of hecklers have tried to prove only one thing: that PublishAmerica does not publish someone's book for free after all. And after 50,000 evidences that, really, every book... is produced and published for absolutely free, and made available to a worldwide market for free, they still insist that it ain't so. And that the earth is flat, and Elvis still lives. And the astronauts never went to the moon either...
PA, you've missed the point yet again. I never said you didn't publish a book for free. I said your business model is to sell books to your authors, not readers. Misdirection much?
 

Chris P

Likes metaphors mixed, not stirred
Moderator
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
24,304
Reaction score
10,679
Location
Wash., D.C. area
I would argue that PA charges its fees after the fact through their inflated prices, and since all the marketing of PA books is to the authors that means the authors bear the brunt of publication costs. Follow the money. Perhaps this is not technically a fee, and of course PA has a right to recoup its expenses. My objections to PA are the prices and in not being clear with what the author can expect from PA. PA would argue it's all in the contract, and they are right about that, but the authors need to know the right questions before going in if they are going to determine accurately what PA will do for them. I believe PA knows what its authors think and plays to it deliberately.
 

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
19,290
Reaction score
5,743
Location
Brillig in the slithy toves...
A response to PA's "thank you" to the above poster

PA Question for you about this line..." And after 50,000 evidences that, really, every book is produced and published for absolutely free, and made available to a worldwide market for free,...." Then why all the emails asking for money to get your book in this market or that market for $49.00 or $29.00 or what ever the emails ar saying? I have been bomb barded by these emails and they add up to some hefty sums if one takes all offers. Now you say absolutely FREE? I'm a bit confused here. Please explain. I am not condemning you for anything I think what you have done so far for me is Great! I just question some of the ways things are said and done.
 

merrihiatt

Writing! Writing! Writing!
Absolute Sage
Requiescat In Pace
Registered
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
4,001
Reaction score
477
Location
Pacific Northwest, Washington
Website
merrihiatt.com
If you signed the contract with PA, submitted your manuscript and did nothing else, you will see your book offered at bookstores within a few weeks.

Wrong! You will not "see your book offered at bookstores." Your book will be AVAILABLE TO bookstores. Big difference.
 

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
25,582
Reaction score
3,787
Location
New Hampshire
Website
madhousemanor.wordpress.com
I did a basic search on publishing companies, and save the big companies, I didn't find many out there that would a) Readily publish a first time or relatively unknown author and b) Do it for free.
I'm sorry, my friend, but Google led you astray. Every legitimate commercial press will readily publish a first-time or unknown author, and do it for free. There are literally thousands of legitimate commercial presses. The only caveat is this: Your book has to be really well-written.

I'm sticking with PA, and hope that they make the decision to publish [title redacted].
Oh, I'm certain they'll accept it. Provided your manuscript arrived before they hit their quota for the day (and it avoids certain other very broad guidelines -- too short, too long, or featuring a character named Miranda), that is.

For twelve years this small crowd of hecklers have tried to prove only one thing: that PublishAmerica does not publish someone's book for free after all.
That's a strawman argument, PA. (It's also poor grammar. The line should read "has tried to." Agreement of number. That makes me suspect that Larry wrote that line. His grammar...is no better than Miranda's spelling.) No one's tried to prove that PA doesn't publish their authors' books for free (other than requiring that their authors pay for their own copyright registration).

What's been proved, many times over, beyond the shadow of a doubt, is that PA is a vanity press, sub-category author mill.

Do you want to know who PA is selling their books to? Look who they're advertising to. (We'll show your book to J.K. Rowling for just $49!) That's the definition of a vanity press: One that sells its books to their own authors rather than to the general public.

So how about, it, PA authors: If PA isn't a vanity press, why do you have less money in your bank account now than you did before you published with them? Why are you writing checks to your publisher? Why is your garage filled with cartons of unsold (and unsalable) books?

PA True Believers, Take the Pledge: Since PublishAmerica is not a vanity press in any way, shape, or form, I swear or affirm that I will never give them any money whatever, no matter what the pretext.

From PA's Facebook page:
How is that a legitimate argument against Publish America ?

Given that the argument was that PA offers contracts to books that they'd never read, it nails the coffin lid shut. That's how it's a legitimate argument.

(It's also true that PA didn't do that extra "screening" and turn down the book until after they'd been told that they'd been pranked, but oh well....)
 

Bookewyrme

Imagined half of it.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
4,859
Reaction score
408
Location
Home Sweet Home
Website
bookewyrme.straydreamers.com
I'm probably not being original here but...am I the only one that sees PA as a cult? The only thing they don't seem to have is a tightly-controlled and guarded compound that the cult-members are never allowed to leave. Unless you count a virtual-compound in the PAMB.
 

ResearchGuy

Resident Curmudgeon
Requiescat In Pace
Registered
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
Messages
5,011
Reaction score
697
Location
Sacramento area, CA
Website
www.umbachconsulting.com
I'm probably not being original here but...am I the only one that sees PA as a cult? . . . .
No, you are not the only one. For the true believers in PA, it often looks much like a cult. (For some it is just a mistake, and for some it is an understood "good enough for my purposes" choice.)

--Ken
 

ctripp

Christine Tripp
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Messages
493
Reaction score
30
Location
Ottawa, Ontario Canada
Website
www.christinetripp.com
For twelve years this small crowd of hecklers have tried to prove only one thing: that PublishAmerica does not publish someone's book for free after all.

Not such a "small crowd" if you factor in the roughly 48,000 out of 50,000, sadder but wiser PA writers. Throw into the mix every legit editor, agent, every published author and illustrator, librarians, bookstore owners.... Oh the list is large!
 

ctripp

Christine Tripp
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Messages
493
Reaction score
30
Location
Ottawa, Ontario Canada
Website
www.christinetripp.com
Do you want to know who PA is selling their books to? Look who they're advertising to. (We'll show your book to J.K. Rowling for just $49!) That's the definition of a vanity press: One that sells its books to their own authors rather than to the general public.

I realize one of the biggest problems is the writers who chose PA have done limited to zero research when it comes to the industry they are entering. Often it's a quick google search "publishers in the us" or "how to publish a book" which results in any number of fee based results. So, when they see PA's no fee's we pay a royalty, they leap at it.
If a writer spent even a half an hour in the library studying a writers market guide they would understand that legit publishers do not sent mass/spam email offers to send your supposedly "published" book to a publisher who's name you actually have heard of or a celebrity!!!
 

PVish

Cat hair collector
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 24, 2005
Messages
1,641
Reaction score
263
Location
slightly off center
Website
peevishpen.blogspot.com
An author posts on the FB page:
PA In St. Pete Times Sunday they described you as a self publisher and said your offer with the Harry Potter author was bogus? I have a mind to e mail them and set them straight. I don't know about the author deal but I do know you are not a self publisher and they should get their facts right. Maybe you should do the same.
. . . and PA answers:
PublishAmerica The only thing that's bogus is the allegation. See www.publishamerica.com/response/.
 

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
25,582
Reaction score
3,787
Location
New Hampshire
Website
madhousemanor.wordpress.com
PublishAmerica The only thing that's bogus is the allegation. See www.publishamerica.com/response/.

That "response" is the widely-derided letter-from-Vic (the one with the triple exclamation points), the one that doesn't address the point that PA's offer was bogus, end to end.

Someone needs to make Ms. Rowling's solicitors aware of PA's tap-dance.
 

Jill Karg

So many WIPs which one to work on
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
994
Reaction score
120
Location
oh
PublishAmerica The only thing that's bogus is the allegation. See www.publishamerica.com/response/.

Ok not only did my mouth drop opened but I am angry beyond belief at the lies in that damn letter. They play poor pitiful us then write bogus bull crap about people that stood up to their lies. I hope that JK Rowling's lawyer nails them and takes them down. Suing them for every dirty red dime they have made over the years off the backs of naive and trusting writers.
 

DeadlyAccurate

Absolutely Fazed
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Messages
2,536
Reaction score
522
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
Website
www.carlaharker.com
I don't know about the author deal

Then maybe you should do a bit of research before you contact that paper, because it sort of made waves across the Internet.

but I do know you are not a self publisher

Yeah, because they're a vanity author mill. Calling them a self-publisher is being nice.
 

ResearchGuy

Resident Curmudgeon
Requiescat In Pace
Registered
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
Messages
5,011
Reaction score
697
Location
Sacramento area, CA
Website
www.umbachconsulting.com
Not necessarily. Lulu and Createspace offer self-publishing services, and they aren't the authors of those books.
They provide services for self-publishers (and also publish on behalf of authors, making Lulu and Createspace the publishers in those cases). Always, PA owns the ISBN, and is therefore the publisher. Lulu and Createspace can provide printing services for authors who own their own ISBNs, and who therefore are their own publishers.

I know it gets complicated. Bright line: the owner of the ISBN is the publisher.

These days, the term "self-publishing" is loosely used for varieties of subsidy and vanity publishing that are NOT self-publishing. The subsidy and vanity outfits exploit the relatively good name of self-publishing as a promotional tool.

The only SELF-publisher is the author himself or herself, owning the ISBN and managing the process (which may include contracting for editing, design, typesetting, printing, and so on).

PA is not a "self-publisher," nor does it even provide services to self-publishers. It is a vanity press. Period.

--Ken
 

merrihiatt

Writing! Writing! Writing!
Absolute Sage
Requiescat In Pace
Registered
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
4,001
Reaction score
477
Location
Pacific Northwest, Washington
Website
merrihiatt.com
My 1st book has just been listed at your online bookstore. :) However, the price is listed at $24.95. I was hoping to see it at the new reduced price of $12.95. Will this be amended soon?

PA replies:
New releases are not included in the price change. They start out like everybody else started.
 

PVish

Cat hair collector
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 24, 2005
Messages
1,641
Reaction score
263
Location
slightly off center
Website
peevishpen.blogspot.com
From the FB page (which I guess is now the new PAMB):
First of all, a BIG thank you to PA for accepting '[title redacted]' for publication. I'm really excited about that. Secondly, I've recently seen posts that suggest PA doesn't read the manuscripts. I can tell you that this is absolute hogwash. Why? Because in the acceptance email, Michael from PA Acquisitions actually pointed out where my novel needs some work, especially with dialog, which tells me that he actually read it. He also took the time to suggest additional resources to me for helping me polish the work. With 50,000 authors and countless manuscripts coming in for review, taking the extra time was plus in my book. PA, thanks.
. . . and PA answers:
Thank you, [name redacted]. Comments about manuscripts not being read are made by amateurs. On top of what you just said about Michael, before a book enters production and is allowed to see the light of day, it is combed through by a team of veteran editors. Why? This is a litigious society. We do all we can to ensure that the author and we don't end up in court. And we must be doing a pretty darn good job: with over 50,000 books in print, we still have to see the inside of a court room over the content of a book. All because we go through the manuscripts as carefully as we do.

Arrggghhh!
 

DeadlyAccurate

Absolutely Fazed
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Messages
2,536
Reaction score
522
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
Website
www.carlaharker.com
Any bets on how long before Michael gets reprimanded for trying to help the authors for whom he's responsible? Actual editing takes real time. It's hard to churn through books if you spend all that time on one of them.
 

TheTinCat

I am a mighty viking!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
Messages
386
Reaction score
62
Location
Behind you
PublishAmerica The only thing that's bogus is the allegation. See www.publishamerica.com/response/.

Dear Vic: Exclamation points are one or none. You will be staying late today after work to write this 100 times on the blackboard.

Oh, and trying to do the whole idiotic, standard PA bully thing with the lawyers of J.K. Rowling? What a silly, little man you are.