Using an offer to get an agent

kellion92 · Jul 20, 2011

I'd worry too, Pegster. Agents always say they only take books they "love," but I wouldn't believe they really loved the book if they stepped in later. How would I know they would work with me on the NEXT book, which is what I would really be looking for at that point? My former agent didn't work with me on my second book, even though she loved my first one. Then again, it didn't sell, and maybe agents are more likely to love the later work of clients whose earlier work has sold.

Pegster · Jul 20, 2011

Did you stay with that agent, or go with another? It's so hard to get one, I can't imagine letting one go except for grievous malfeasance, or a rash of another color. I just sent in what is probably the final revision on a manuscript with one of 'big' publishers. Everyone says I'll need an agent to get the contract negotiated, but I suspect what I'll have is my pick of rejection letters to sort through and say, "Well, maybe I'll try this one again." I'm thinking that if all the agent does is keep my rights going where they belong, I should probably consider an attorney instead. Dunno. Very frustrating.

Lucy · Jul 20, 2011

Agents do not promote books. They sell them to editors. They also do a lot of other stuff but promotion comes from the editor/publishing house and yourself.

Pegster, why did you submit directly to publishers? You say its with one of the big ones - but none of the Big Six accept unagented queries. So I'm curious who you submitted to and why directly?

Pegster · Jul 20, 2011

I write SFF so I submitted to ACE, TOR, DAW and Baen. They all take slushies. There was one other but I can't recall off the top of my noggin. I probably will try a contract attorney after educating myself here on contract points.

kellion92 · Jul 20, 2011

Lucy, there are big imprints that do take slush and queries, particularly in SFF and children's. And many editors at "closed" publishers big and small take unagented submissions through conferences, referrals, and other channels.

charmingbillie · Jul 20, 2011

Some things to consider as you're deciding what way to go.

I know two people off the top of my head who got an offer and went back to agents they'd queried. Some agents still turned them down. But they both ended up with agents who had initially rejected them. One of them has sold five more books since the original sale. The other one was quite recent. They might eventually decide to change agents, but lots of people do.

Agents can often get the initial offer increased, possibly by enough to cover their fee.

Big six contracts are big and complicated and favor the publisher (inevitably). Lawyers may be involved even if you have an agent (your agency will pay for them). These contracts can take months to negotiate. It is often worth it for the agent, because they'll have a new boilerplate for that publisher when it's done. And if they sell a lot to that publisher it makes sense to spend that time. It might or might not be worth it for an individual.

So, yeah, lots of factors.

Pegster · Jul 20, 2011

charmingbillie said:
Some things to consider as you're deciding what way to go.

I know two people off the top of my head who got an offer and went back to agents they'd queried. Some agents still turned them down. But they both ended up with agents who had initially rejected them. One of them has sold five more books since the original sale. The other one was quite recent. They might eventually decide to change agents, but lots of people do.

.

I will keep this in mind as I continue researching my options. It's clear that everyone should avoid 'taking it personally' when they get a rejection. Certainly this is an indication that from the agent's pov the bridge is not burned by a simple rejection letter. Thanks!

Filigree · Jul 20, 2011

I'm actually relieved that the last of the pre-contest queries got a rejection email today. I'd aimed at a big-name agent, one probably too busy to focus on a newbie, and one whose recent taste in books left me a little conflicted.

For what I want to do, if I'm lucky enough to be allowed to do it, I'm going to need an agent on my side. One who is skilled, reliable, and enthusiastic about my work. So I won't even bother to re-query any of the no-answer or form rejection agents from my first list, only the most recent, who offered some personal commentary.

scope · Jul 20, 2011

Pegster,

With all due respect it seems as if you are not aware of the many things an agent can do for you, this book, and most important, for your future. For you own sake I suggest you educate yourself accordingly. As it is today--and I think it will only get worse--it's very difficult for a writer to carve out a future, get eveything attended to, and get as much ezposure as possible, without an agent. The breathe of an agencies knowledge and exposure for one's books and one's future goes far beyond what an agency may be able to convince a publisher to do, or better said, in addition to what a publisher may do.

Cyia · Jul 20, 2011

Pegster said:
I'm thinking that if all the agent does is keep my rights going where they belong, I should probably consider an attorney instead. Dunno. Very frustrating.

Agents have contacts you don't. They know the market better. They know that Editor X at Imprint Y is looking for a book exactly like yours and will be more likely to want to buy it. They can take the usual waiting time of 1-2 years for a big publisher who reads slush and slash that to something much shorter because publishers give preference to agented subs.

Agents can help you make an already good MS better by editing it. Agents can have access to someone who can help sell foreign and/or media rights. An agent has experience you don't. An agent can negotiate the terms of a contract so that they're more in your favor.

It's much, much more than just retaining rights.

charmingbillie said:
Agents can often get the initial offer increased, possibly by enough to cover their fee.

Legit agents work by commission percentage, not a fee. Their income is based on what you earn as a writer, so it's always "covered".

charmingbillie · Jul 21, 2011

Cyia said:
Legit agents work by commission percentage, not a fee. Their income is based on what you earn as a writer, so it's always "covered".

What I meant, which I believe was clear but my apologies if not, was, say your initial advance offer was 10,000 for ease of calculation. An agent might be able to increase that by say, 3000 or more. Which covers their 'fee' which is their commission, plus a bit more. Whereas you, as an individual, might not be able to do this (negotiate a higher advance).

But I have to say, that for me, one of the huge things an agent can do, which was mentioned up-thread, is get your manuscript on the desk of the right editor. If you send a manuscript on your own to, say, Tor. It goes into a giant queue of all other manuscripts and may never be seen by the editor that would love it and buy it.

WriteBrained · Jul 21, 2011

First, you would "buy" some time with Agent B by asking her to send you the contract for review and that you will get back to her in a week. Immediately thereafter, send an email (phone if you can) to Agent A. In the subject line put something like "Represention Offer Received". In the body of the email tell the agent that you need to know within one week (specific dates) if she's interested in representing you as you have a offer pending.

Thanks for the advice, Scope! That all makes sense!

Filigree · Jul 21, 2011

Your agent can get your book in front of the right editor, act as a buffer between you and that editor, act as your shrink or cheerleader, chase down and finalize foreign rights, get you prestigious anthology invites, keep track of all the important details in e-publishing, and many, many other things. Domestic rights are just a small fraction of what a great agent can do for a writer.

If you're trying to sell only a single book, you might get away with no agent, but it may take a while to sell. If you're even considering one or more series, like I am, an agent is a necessity.

I know of several writers who don't use agents, and talk on their websites about their strategies. It can be done. It's a lot of work.

BigBooksNY · Jul 22, 2011

I think it's different once an offer is on the table. It doesn't make an agent "bad" if they decide to take it on then. Agents represent and they have to have something to represent. The easier you make it for them, the better it is for you.

waylander · Jul 22, 2011

Pegster said:
I write SFF so I submitted to ACE, TOR, DAW and Baen. They all take slushies. There was one other but I can't recall off the top of my noggin. I probably will try a contract attorney after educating myself here on contract points.

Yes these imprints will look at unsolicited manuscripts, but when was the last time they actually bought one straight off the slushpile?
If your novel is good enough to be a contender then you will get serious interest from agents.

Filigree · Jul 22, 2011

They still buy gems found in the slush. That was the whole point of the Suvudu contest, to get Del Rey and Spectra a shot at twenty or thirty promising-but-unagented books out of 700 entries. I'm sure that not just the winner and finalists are being considered. Those entries would possibly have gone to DAW and TOR's slushpile. This way, Random House gets first pick.

The problem is how long it takes to send one novel at a time into one publisher's slush. It's taken me two years of rewriting both mms and query to get to the stage where I can approach the next 50 agents. I'm not willing to wait up to 18 to 24 months per publisher to go the slush route. I'll spend another year chasing agents, before I put the novel back in the trunk. It's not wasted time. I've learned a lot, and I'm working on two more novels while this one is in limbo.

Now I'm wondering how long it will take for the publisher to say yes or no, so I can sculpt my queries accordingly.

CAWriter · Jul 23, 2011

The very short answer is I got my first agent from a referral when I had an offer from a major publisher.

An editor at a major house (who was taking my project to committee) suggested I get an agent, but this was pre-internet searches and the market I was writing for had very few agents (and the publishers not only accepted unagented work, they preferred it, back in the dark ages). So I called up my friend who had influence in another aspect of the publishing/bookselling world and asked if he knew of any agents I could talk to.

Other offers of representation have come from conference contacts. (I've never gone the cold query route.)

kellion92 · Jul 23, 2011

Publishers wouldn't read slush if it weren't worth their time. Many (and more all the time) publishers don't believe it is, and thus don't accept unagented submissions.

But there are other publishers who either want first or exclusive look at material. Others may find that agents miss projects that they interest them -- SFF and picture books, in particular, which are represented by fewer agents.

I haven't heard anyone arguing that it's not better to have an agent to submit projects for them, but sometimes they won't do it. If a writer has faith in his work, why shouldn't he pursue alternate channels? (while of course writing another, better book etc. etc. etc.)

Pegster · Jul 23, 2011

scope said:
Pegster,

With all due respect it seems as if you are not aware of the many things an agent can do for you, this book, and most important, for your future. For you own sake I suggest you educate yourself accordingly. .

I think you're right, Scope. That's why I'm reading around and asking questions at this site and others. I hope to have serious need of an agent in the next year, but I want to make the best decision for the type of writer I am and how it relates to my day job/family. An agent may be just the person I need, but I'm not sure at this stage. I don't want to do the knee jerk thing just because everyone else is doing it. Just call me rebel! If not radical. Thanks for the advice.

Filigree · Jul 24, 2011

In public, most agents will say that they're fine with missing 'the one' great project. After all, there are always more submissions. But I have heard some agents at conventions say they're always looking for ways to make the process easier and more effective for both agent and writer.

Just today, JABberwocky Literary Agency finally opened up to email queries to two of its agents. They realized that their hardcopy-only policy on queries was pushing away writers who tend to do email queries first, thus denying JAB a lot of first looks.

For my part, I'm using my time in publishing limbo to refine my query letters and agent list.

Using an offer to get an agent

kellion92

A cat may not look at a king

Pegster

Girando e fuzzicando

Lucy

sky with diamonds

Pegster

Girando e fuzzicando

kellion92

A cat may not look at a king

charmingbillie

Are we there yet?

Pegster

Girando e fuzzicando

Filigree

Mildly Disturbing

scope

Commonsensical Maverick

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny

charmingbillie

Are we there yet?

WriteBrained

Learning more from this great site!

Filigree

Mildly Disturbing

BigBooksNY

Author

waylander

Who's going for a beer?

Filigree

Mildly Disturbing

CAWriter

kellion92

A cat may not look at a king

Pegster

Girando e fuzzicando

Filigree

Mildly Disturbing