Historical Fiction - Question about Nuns.

samw11 · Jul 3, 2011

The story is based in the 16th century, but I am trying to find out at what age a Benedictine child oblate would have taken her vows & if there was any way she could have left during her novitiate? The intention is that she will return to the order (possibly a different abby/convent) many years down the line?

I have wikipedia'd it & googled it & am struggling a bit - there was a note in the Catholic Encyclopedia abour puer oblates - who were oblates, raised in the abbey to dedicate their lives to God (usually given to the order by their parents) but could chose to leave after puberty - but that only references monks & because of the female emancipation since the middle ages, would the same right of choice have applied to Nuns?

Thanks in advance to anyone who either knows / can point me in the direction of a good resource!

citymouse · Jul 3, 2011

sam, the country you in which you set this story is very important. For example, in England, the Benedictine abbeys and convents were terribly knocked around by the crown. This would have made a huge impact on the orders ability to sustain any substantial congregation of nuns. At the hight of the Protestant Reformation the Benedictines were virtually driven from Northern Europe, England, Germany and France.

Probably the most detailed convent life would be that of the Carmelites in Spain. Keep in mind that your time period includes the Catholic Counter Reformation, with its soaring mysticism and oppressive and capricious Inquisition.

So pick your country and narrow your convents.
Good luck with your project!

samw11 said:
The story is based in the 16th century, but I am trying to find out at what age a Benedictine child oblate would have taken her vows & if there was any way she could have left during her novitiate? The intention is that she will return to the order (possibly a different abby/convent) many years down the line?

I have wikipedia'd it & googled it & am struggling a bit - there was a note in the Catholic Encyclopedia abour puer oblates - who were oblates, raised in the abbey to dedicate their lives to God (usually given to the order by their parents) but could chose to leave after puberty - but that only references monks & because of the female emancipation since the middle ages, would the same right of choice have applied to Nuns?

Thanks in advance to anyone who either knows / can point me in the direction of a good resource!

gothicangel · Jul 4, 2011

citymouse said:
sam, the country you in which you set this story is very important. For example, in England, the Benedictine abbeys and convents were terribly knocked around by the crown. This would have made a huge impact on the orders ability to sustain any substantial congregation of nuns. At the hight of the Protestant Reformation the Benedictines were virtually driven from Northern Europe, England, Germany and France.

Depends on which period of the 16th century. England was still Catholic until around 1530, and even then it depends on the region. In the north, they resisted the Reformation and were protected by Catholic Scotland who did not Reform until 1560 - they didn't like the idea of Northumberland turning Catholic and put the force of their army behind the border county.

citymouse · Jul 4, 2011

True, Henry VIII died(1547) receiving Holy Communion, and believing himself a good Catholic. Latin remained the language of The Book of Common Prayer until 1549, when it was translated in to English for all uses in the English Church.

That said, the pressures on the abbeys and monasteries remained enormous, and this was the focus of my remarks. It was with this in mind, and the OP's question that I mentioned the Benedictines and their dilemma. Of course the OP could set the story 40 or even 30 years, or so before the great trials which began around 1534. The Reformation that was raging in Northern Europe could be a subplot, if the setting is England; which we don't know, since the OP didn't say.

gothicangel said:
Depends on which period of the 16th century. England was still Catholic until around 1530, and even then it depends on the region. In the north, they resisted the Reformation and were protected by Catholic Scotland who did not Reform until 1560 - they didn't like the idea of Northumberland turning Catholic and put the force of their army behind the border county.

samw11 · Jul 4, 2011

sam, the country you in which you set this story is very important.

The MC is born in Scotland & sent to Soissons in France in about 1567... she needs to leave the abbey in about 1586 when she's 19 & I'd prefer her to have not taken vows... (if that's likely & I'm not sure that it is) Unfortunately I know that the Abbey was damaged in someway during the French Wars of religion between 1562-98 but can't find out when.

It was completely restored in 1637 (roughly when my MC dies at the grand old age of 70) which is why she may have to return to a different convent.

I can't change the dates very much, nor the date of the MC's birth as she's based on an hypothetically real person - I know that doesn't make much sense but there's no real evidence that she actually lived!

She's supposed to be the daughter of Mary Stuart, who (it was claimed) was smuggled to France to Mary's Guise relatives & sent to Soissons to be a Nun. At the time it was put about that Mary miscarried & it was only after her execution that her personal secretary wrote about the live female child being smuggled away.

The story itself is fiction, but I don't want to just wander off the historical fact where I don't have to - I want it to be realistic in terms of what life would have been like then for a child oblate.

The Abbey she was alleged to have been sent to was a Benedictine order, so I'd like to keep her as a Benedictine if I can.

citymouse · Jul 4, 2011

The Benedictine rule was/is much more flexible that other disciplines. If this girl wasn't "called", but simply raised in the abbey convent, then the abbess, could have been put the vows off.
Not all who were sent to nunneries ended up nuns, and those that did sometimes made not so good nuns. Ugh! Awful sentence structure!

This is a great opportunity for a conversation between the abbess and the prioress, if one is present in the convent at the time. All the whys and wherefores could be explained without the usual narrative.

samw11 said:
The MC is born in Scotland & sent to Soissons in France in about 1567... she needs to leave the abbey in about 1586 when she's 19 & I'd prefer her to have not taken vows... (if that's likely & I'm not sure that it is) Unfortunately I know that the Abbey was damaged in someway during the French Wars of religion between 1562-98 but can't find out when.

It was completely restored in 1637 (roughly when my MC dies at the grand old age of 70) which is why she may have to return to a different convent.

I can't change the dates very much, nor the date of the MC's birth as she's based on an hypothetically real person - I know that doesn't make much sense but there's no real evidence that she actually lived!

She's supposed to be the daughter of Mary Stuart, who (it was claimed) was smuggled to France to Mary's Guise relatives & sent to Soissons to be a Nun. At the time it was put about that Mary miscarried & it was only after her execution that her personal secretary wrote about the live female child being smuggled away.

The story itself is fiction, but I don't want to just wander off the historical fact where I don't have to - I want it to be realistic in terms of what life would have been like then for a child oblate.

The Abbey she was alleged to have been sent to was a Benedictine order, so I'd like to keep her as a Benedictine if I can.

samw11 · Jul 5, 2011

Fantastic - thank you so much - I think that deserves a character being named after you!

citymouse said:
The Benedictine rule was/is much more flexible that other disciplines. If this girl wasn't "called", but simply raised in the abbey convent, then the abbess, could have been put the vows off.
Not all who were sent to nunneries ended up nuns, and those that did sometimes made not so good nuns. Ugh! Awful sentence structure!

This is a great opportunity for a conversation between the abbess and the prioress, if one is present in the convent at the time. All the whys and wherefores could be explained without the usual narrative.

citymouse · Jul 5, 2011

You are welcome. And thank YOU! BTW citymouse in French would be, Souris de Ville--but I won't hold you to it.

C

samw11 said:
Fantastic - thank you so much - I think that deserves a character being named after you!

samw11 · Jul 5, 2011

I think that I could manage a character called souris de ville - I need some fictional conspirators, I shall now have to imagine what you look like & describe him!

Historical Fiction - Question about Nuns.

samw11

citymouse

fantasy dweller

gothicangel

Toughen up.

citymouse

fantasy dweller

samw11

citymouse

fantasy dweller

samw11

citymouse

fantasy dweller

samw11