Language

PorterStarrByrd · Feb 27, 2011

I'm brand new here, so maybe I haven't looked hard enough yet, or it's been tried before with no interest but ..

Is there any dedicated are where 'period languge' questions and advice are availabe in or to assist more realistic dialog in historical fiction?

That would include regional and foreign influences on our language and perhaps (possibly in another area) the same in foreign languages a character might use.

Ol' Fashioned Girl · Feb 27, 2011

I haven't seen a dedicated area, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been tried.

When I do a search for such, several threads come up... so I'm guessing it's more specific to a certain question folks ask to solve a current problem someone's working on. I do know we have a lot of very good resources on AW for language questions, so if this thread becomes the place to come to to ask questions, I'll certainly be willing to sticky it to the top of the forum.

Puma · Feb 27, 2011

Hi Porter, etc. - Most language questions end up in the grammar and language forum in the helps section above this area of AW. But, in historical share your work, we also have a thread called "what's wrong with this sentence" and it can be used for the type of language issue you're talking about. In historical we seem to end up discussing language in quite a few threads (here and in Share Your Work), usually Bristish American differences but others do come up.

So, no, we don't have a specific area, but questions like you've mentioned do come up and are taken care of where they occur (with the exception of the sentence thread I mentioned). Puma

Lil · Feb 27, 2011

There's always the OED, which will tell you when a word, or a particular phrase, first turned up in writing. The word may have been around in speech a decade or more earlier, and probably was.

There are also books and websites that discuss when expressions and slang appeared.

Is that the sort of thing you mean?

PorterStarrByrd · Feb 27, 2011

Lil said:
There's always the OED, which will tell you when a word, or a particular phrase, first turned up in writing. The word may have been around in speech a decade or more earlier, and probably was.

There are also books and websites that discuss when expressions and slang appeared.

Is that the sort of thing you mean?

Actually I more interested in realistic conversation than in how old a word is. It would equally useful in knowing when it's meaning changed or it became archaic.
People use a mixture of new and old in daily speech and words change meaning over time. (ie. Gay meant a whole 'nother thing when I was a kid. Negro, black, African American etc have replaced each other .. time frame is important in putting the right words in a character's dialog.)

Is there a site that deals more with that?

If I toss in a German phrase for a German character (I don't mean trying to impress the reader with knowlege of a foreign language, but having a character naturally spit out something in his native tongue) I'd like it to apporpriate to his context.

Lil · Feb 27, 2011

What period are you talking about? For example, there's Grose's Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue around 1810, and there's an Elizabethan collection of thieves' cant.

Also, you might read popular novels of the time your book is set (written then, rather than about then).

pdr · Feb 27, 2011

If...

you are anxious about only using words and expressions which were used at your time then write with the online etymology dictionary open:
http://www.etymonline.com/ It's a quick and rough source for meanings and dates. When you edit you'll need to check with the OED.

To be sure you are writing readable fiction and not gadzookery or excessively old fashioned formal dialogue you need to keep posting snippets of your dialogue in SYW Historical where we will help out.

Most of us are published and have a fair idea of what readers can take.

Carmy · Feb 27, 2011

Ouch pdr! I clicked on the etymology link and my Antivirus came up with a "threat has been detected" warning. Carmy

Deleted member 42 · Feb 27, 2011

pdr said:
you are anxious about only using words and expressions which were used at your time then write with the online etymology dictionary open

That's a bogus link.

This is the real one:

http://www.etymonline.com/

I've edited the link out of PDR's post; it was a simple error caused by a site deliberately named to look like the legit one, clever enough to fool anyone.

Carmy · Feb 27, 2011

Whew! I was sweating!

Thank you. Carmy

pdr · Feb 28, 2011

Oops!

Sorry about that. Don't know how I did it! I've noticed there's one site doing that if you try to get to the V&A's shop link. You land in a bogus site selling museum souvenirs.

PorterStarrByrd · Feb 28, 2011

Thanks for all the info

Just want my dialog, different books different lingo, not to have glaring misusages for the time.I agree I don't (Usually) need to go full emersion into the period jargon.

Learning a lot in the few days I have been here

Looking forward to when i can post as I have one book done and another nearly so (subject to some serious editing

thanks much ... someday I'll be a writer ?

Puma · Feb 28, 2011

Porter - While you're working on your post count, one of the excellent things to do is read some of the posts in historical Share Your Work and leave comments for the posters. It will help you get an idea of how things work in SYW and also give you an idea of who's working on what. And, if you have questions about historical SYW, we have a thread titled "I Lost My Scutum ..." that's pretty much for any type of post, so feel free to use it. Puma

job · Feb 28, 2011

Maybe try the H-Net

http://www.h-net.org/lists/

MTP · Mar 2, 2011

I don't know what period or setting you're working in, but if it's the 18th century English-speaking world, Samuel Johnson's dictionary is one of the best resources available on the language of the time. Entertaining reading, too!

gothicangel · Mar 21, 2011

Late to the discussion but:

My WIP is set in 15th century Scotland, so using 'period' Scots is out of the question.

Language

PorterStarrByrd

nutruring tomorrows criminals today

Ol' Fashioned Girl

Hand? What hand?

Puma

Retired and loving it!

Lil

PorterStarrByrd

nutruring tomorrows criminals today

Lil

pdr

Carmy

Deleted member 42

Carmy

pdr

PorterStarrByrd

nutruring tomorrows criminals today

Puma

Retired and loving it!

job

In the end, it's just you and the manuscript

MTP

gothicangel

Toughen up.