Write what you know... but what if what you don't know is PEOPLE?

BunnyMaz · Feb 14, 2011

I have a slight problem. Or not-so-slight.

I want to ensure that the tone of my writing emphasises the culture in which my MC lives. I want readers to feel the same pressures she feels, and I want the experiences she has to feel real, and her reactions human.

I can do the actiony-bits. I suck at the talky bits. IRL I am not the best at social interaction, and I tend to miss a lot of cues when talking to people. So when I come to try and write a scene where a conversation takes place the atmosphere always seems so... forced. And obvious. And often ends up with one character coming off more than a little creepy and skeezy.

Do you think it would be possible for me to get better at this with practice? Or else, could a long, rambling story be engaging with minimal conversations taking place?

MissMacchiato · Feb 14, 2011

I think you have to get inside your character's head. Imagine the scene from her perspective.

Then imagine how the antagonist feels. What do they want?

I've heard it helps to write as thought each character thinks they are the main character. And they are - in their mind.

When I look at a scene, I tend to think -

what do I want my characters to feel?
what is the point of the scene?
what can I have them say, that will lead the book in the direction I want it to go?

After writing the scene, try saying it out loud. If you can't imagine a real person saying those words, then refine until they are

Undercover · Feb 14, 2011

As long as you keep writing, you'll most definitely get better. That's for sure.

I seem to have the opposite problem, not enough action and too much talk. Hopefully you'll be able to find your answers and come to a middle ground. You're in the right place.

veinglory · Feb 14, 2011

You can focus on learning how to do it with social scripts and practice, or you can learn how to fake in in fiction even though you can't do it, or you can write your way around these scenes by writing flawed characters or mindreading characters who don;t use subtle cues, or you can be so good at everything else that this one failing is not such a big deal. Or, of course, all of the above.

whimsical rabbit · Feb 14, 2011

Try to become more attentive. Listen. Observe. And then shuffle.

Indeed, character creation is all about perception. Understanding life, people, how it all comes together.

If you are an introvert, you don't have to force yourself to become the heart of the party. Just pay attention. Don't speak, but listen to how people talk, how they move, how the act around each other.

Then perhaps you can go home and jot it all down? Write what you've seen, what impression people made on you, what did you think they were thinking? Were they themselves, your reckon? Were they acting? Pretending to be cooler, shier, different than they really are? If so, why?

You get the point. It doesn't matter if it's true or not. By conveying your impressions on paper, you'll already have material, fictional stories of some sort.

Hope this helps a bit.

BunnyMaz · Feb 14, 2011

Actually it does, yeah. Thanks guys.

Splendad · Feb 14, 2011

You'll get better. Keep pounding. Having an intense interest in people helps. But if you don't--if people rather bore you but you still wanna write about them or at least include them--then I'll sign on to the popular advice. Listen to them. Read some psych. case studies (I had to for school, and I dreaded it, until I learned how much it could help my writing reg. characters). And imo, most importantly, take 5 minutes out of every day and imagine, to the peak of your ability, that you are somebody else. Imagine you are a fireman who just lost a partner; an old lady that just won the lotto; even a dog that just got back from the vet for an ingrown claw *shrug*

That will not only broaden your people horizons but it advances you in every way, socially, by helping you to understand other perspectives outside of your own. The folks on this site can help you throughout the process of development so keep on comin' widdit!

shadowwalker · Feb 14, 2011

whimsical rabbit said:
Try to become more attentive. Listen. Observe. And then shuffle.

This. I'm not the greatest in social situations either - but I love to sit back and watch. And it doesn't have to be a social situation (ie, party or get-together) - go to a mall, a park, an airport, and just sit and watch the people. Pay attention not only to what they say, but how they say it, facial expressions, gestures... it's fascinating, really.

BunnyMaz · Feb 14, 2011

See, I can do the imagining part. But... well, to give you an example.

I have never knowingly flirted. Not because I don't want to, but because I have no idea how to do it. People who have flirted with me have come up against a blank wall of idiocy and others have come away misinterpreting my behaviour in some way. I know what flirting is, but the mechanics of it are completely mysterious to me.

I even met my other half at a nightclub; he sat down next to me and chatted to me and a lady I'd been dancing with. I was utterly oblivious to his interest in me until I asked if he wanted to join me outside for fresh air and ended up doing something quite different. It was only when he made a physical move towards me that I figured out what was going on.

So for me, if I was to try and write, for example, a flirty scene, I just could not do it. I might try and get into the mindset of a character who is interested in another one... and in all honesty my own behaviour would boil down to "tell them you like them" as direct as that, or "say nothing and get over it". I can write how they feel, I can detail them noticing certain things, the way I do when I am focussed on someone I like, but the dialogue? It always comes off predatory or grotesque, or people who read it after tell me they honestly couldn't tell flirting was going on until one character said something really obvious towards the end.

I don't know if I just don't understand the physical cues that people give when flirting, or some aspect of social interaction that is normal for everyone else, or what.

DeleyanLee · Feb 14, 2011

Check out books about social interactions written for adolescent and adults on the Autism Spectrum, particularly Asperger's.

They might help.

BunnyMaz · Feb 14, 2011

Ah, now that might be a good idea. I never even thought of that, thank you

Mr Flibble · Feb 14, 2011

Okay so YOU don't know how to flirt.

But do you recognise when other people do? Then you are gold.

Go somewhere, anywhere there are lots of people. Watch. Observe. Take notes of you have to.

As da Wabbity one said, observation is key to it all.

Watch

See

Learn

Empathise. Practise being someone else. That lady over there in the lime green jumper worrying about what to get her hubby for tea. Or that guy frazzled because he thinks he's going to be made redundant and he's got a mortgage and car payments and credit card bills and a wife who spends like it's going out of fashion. Or that guy, the one over there. You can see him, the one that looks like an animated skeleton because of all the drugs he does. Why does he do them? What is it in his head that makes him tink that is preferable?

Watch
See
Learn
Empathise - if I walked a mile in their shoes....
Then extrapolate, surmise, give motivation to...

I haven't ever done most of the stuff my characters do...but I know(or rather can conjecture) how it would feel to do it for them. Depending on the character I have given them - and that's a big depend.

veinglory · Feb 14, 2011

And you can of course always start by writing about what you really know, the experiences of a person a lot like you....

Karen Junker · Feb 14, 2011

The thing is, people in fiction don't always say and do things the way people do them in real life. I rely on other people's writing, their characters' dialogue, to give me ideas about how to write my own stories. If you write the kind of dialogue and action that other people write, you will at least be believable to many readers.

SBibb · Feb 14, 2011

BunnyMaz said:
I have a slight problem. Or not-so-slight.

I want to ensure that the tone of my writing emphasises the culture in which my MC lives. I want readers to feel the same pressures she feels, and I want the experiences she has to feel real, and her reactions human.

I can do the actiony-bits. I suck at the talky bits. IRL I am not the best at social interaction, and I tend to miss a lot of cues when talking to people. So when I come to try and write a scene where a conversation takes place the atmosphere always seems so... forced. And obvious. And often ends up with one character coming off more than a little creepy and skeezy.

Do you think it would be possible for me to get better at this with practice? Or else, could a long, rambling story be engaging with minimal conversations taking place?

I have a very similar problem. I'm not a very social person, and I have a story that needs to have three very close friends. So far it seems that having written the rough draft, it helps to focus on that while going through one of the visions, or asking someone to read it and what they think of the character (how it comes across to them) and any suggestions they might have.

BunnyMaz · Feb 14, 2011

But do you recognise when other people do? Then you are gold

Nope! See above

That said, all really fantastic advice here guys! I'm kinda kicking myself that I didn't think of any of it myself

Mr Flibble · Feb 14, 2011

BunnyMaz said:
Nope! See above

That said, all really fantastic advice here guys! I'm kinda kicking myself that I didn't think of any of it myself

Lol! I never notice when people do it to me. But I can see when other people do it to each other.

Sit and really watch people. See what you notice.

Sindri · Feb 14, 2011

Something I don't think anyone else has said: read and analyse the dialogue in other books you like.

James MacDonald gave some excellent advice in his Learn Writing with Uncle Jim thread:

Book dialog is to the spoken dialog of humans in their natural habitat as a stage whisper is to an actual whisper. Dialog as it is written in a novel is a literary convention.

Experiment: Tape-record an actual conversation. Transcribe it. Notice how much hesitation there is, how many sentence fragments you find, how wasteful and redundant (or elided and obscure) it is, and what infelicitious phrasing the natural stuff has. As novelists, our job is to write book-dialog that gives the impression of natural dialog.

I must say, I am not a people person at all and talking to them can be quite an awkward thing for me to do depending on the person. But there are a couple people who I'm completely comfortable with (close friends, family) and can talk to no problem (for the most part, anyway). I'm sure you'll have some people like that too. Draw from those experiences.

But even in those social situations where I would never say a word, there are times when I think (that is, dream) of what I might say in response. That is, if I was a more talkative/opinionated/less shy person. I often wish I was one of those people, you see.

dangerousbill · Feb 14, 2011

BunnyMaz said:
I can do the actiony-bits. I suck at the talky bits. IRL I am not the best at social interaction, and I tend to miss a lot of cues when talking to people.

You can be a total social recluse and still understand people well enough to write fiction. But you should watch them, listen to conversations, make notes about them, study them. Read memoirs and autobiographies, as well as fiction.

If you aren't a student of human communication, you might have a hard time writing fiction that others will want to read. Fiction's really about people, not so much about plots. The best plot is nothing without strong, believable characters; but a thin and stringy plot is okay if your characters are well drawn.

Pistol Whipped Bee · Feb 14, 2011

BunnyMaz said:
I suck at the talky bits. IRL I am not the best at social interaction, and I tend to miss a lot of cues when talking to people.
Do you think it would be possible for me to get better at this with practice?

One of the best ways to learn is through observation. Where can you go to observe people in heavy conversation?

Or - who would engage you in 'practice' sessions? One way to engage another person is to ask questions and show genuine interest in the other person and what s/he has to say.

Take paper and a pen.

kaitie · Feb 14, 2011

This is going to sound really goofy, but one of the best ways I used to "practice" dialogue was on instant messengers. Obviously a lot of people have internet quirks and what not, but if I used a messenger, I typed exactly the way I would talk if I was speaking aloud. I started to pay attention to the way I phrased certain things, what sounded natural, etc. I'm not sure if it would work for anyone else, but it was definitely something that helped me because I'm a very visual person, and essentially it was taking what I was hearing and putting it on paper where I could comprehend it better.

You could also try (with permission of course) recording a conversation or two and then transcribing it. Now, obviously you can't write dialogue exactly like it's spoken because we talk stupidly. We use lots of "ums" and repetitions and things like that, however it could be an interesting activity to take that transcription and then try to turn it into an actual dialogue.

Just keep practicing. I'm someone who sucks at social interaction. I'm shy, I'm not particularly good at speaking, my mind wanders off, etc., but my dialogue, originally probably my biggest weakness, has become something I'm most often complimented on. You can definitely improve it, but it'll just take some time and work and lots of practice.

Susan Coffin · Feb 14, 2011

BunnyMaz said:
I have a slight problem. Or not-so-slight.

I want to ensure that the tone of my writing emphasises the culture in which my MC lives. I want readers to feel the same pressures she feels, and I want the experiences she has to feel real, and her reactions human.

I can do the actiony-bits. I suck at the talky bits. IRL I am not the best at social interaction, and I tend to miss a lot of cues when talking to people. So when I come to try and write a scene where a conversation takes place the atmosphere always seems so... forced. And obvious. And often ends up with one character coming off more than a little creepy and skeezy.

Do you think it would be possible for me to get better at this with practice? Or else, could a long, rambling story be engaging with minimal conversations taking place?

Go to public places and listen to people talk. Unless you are a hermit, you must have interaction with other people--listen to the conversations you have with them. Become aware of the words people use, the rhythm of how they speak, the intonations of different speech patterns.

When you write, try not to force it conversation, just allow the words to come.

Creepy characters are okay, as is skeezy (I just looked that word up--a combination of Sketchy (dubious) and sleazy(dirty or vulgar).) Just work really hard to stay true to your character and it will work out.

Cyia · Feb 14, 2011

Study dialogue in TV and movies. Get the rhythm down. Speech is about rhythm, when someone's "off" in any capacity, it comes through in their speech - which is why it's such a great indicator of mental illness or otherworldliness in fiction.

You can learn that by watching segments of film where the dialogue is strong.

JoNightshade · Feb 14, 2011

Piggybacking on what Sindri said - read. I'm guessing that you naturally gravitate toward action-oriented books that deliver what you like and understand. In short, your strengths. What I'd do if I were you is dig into some heavy character-based fiction. Stuff that's all about social interaction, reading cues, etc.

HKCavalier · Feb 14, 2011

Hi BunnyMaz,

I'm gonna speak for going ahead and writing what you know. You know introverted. You know creepy. You know skeezy. Sounds like you know some interesting people. Have you ever tried just going with it? Stop fighting it and just going where you're headed?

In visual art, not so much in writing as I know it, but I think it still applies, we talk about an artist's "subject matter." One of my subjects is the human heart, as in the organ. I could paint human hearts forever and never run out of things to say. Also, hands. I'm huge with hands. I once did a series of portraits and all it was was their hands and everyone pretty much recognized the person from their hands.

Now, I didn't really choose these two subjects so much as they chose me. I think the same way when it comes to writing. If you keep getting to creepy and skeezy, maybe it's just a place you need to go. They could just be a couple odd stops along the way, or you may find that these are major ports of call for your creative voyage.

Not to get too psychological, but if you're introverted, there's a how you got that way, which is unique and therefore worth reading about.

Sounds to me like you're gonna keep at it until you find a solution, which is the best any of us can do. Good luck!

-HK

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