[email service] Gmail

Mac H. · Nov 13, 2010

Clarion said:
Mac H.,

Thank you for your questions.

I would like the contract to be altered exactly the same way it was for Google Chrome, that's all

The problem with that is that it cannot work.

Chrome is a browser.
Gmail is an email system.

Fundamentally the user of a webmail system HAS to give permission for for the webmail to display (etc) the email's contents.

Fundamentally the user of a webmail system HAS to give permission for their emails to be stored and archived.

A browser isn't like that.

So fundamentally an email system's TOS will always need a phrase like:

11.1a: By submitting, posting or displaying the content you give (the email provider) a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive license to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute any Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services.

If you want this clause to be removed entirely - then you need to replace it with something. Fundamentally you will need to give your email provider a license to reproduce and distribute the emails. That is what an email system is !

In gmail's system you will also need to give permission for it to be adapted, modified & translated as well. If you email a video you also need to give permission for the video to be publicly performed as well.

So how could you change this sub clause of the license? The best way would seem to add a phrase to clarify the limitations of the permissions.

The good news is that a moment later they do exactly that :

11.b: This license is for the sole purpose of enabling Google to display, distribute and promote the Services and may be revoked for certain Services as defined in the Additional Terms of those Services.

That seems like a pretty good clarification.

Please give an alternative phrasing that will be suitable for an email system - and please don't say that "I don't understand why they need it for an email system if they didn't need it for a browser"!!

Mac

Clarion · Nov 15, 2010

Mac H.,

I have already addressed this in previous posts.
We don't need to parse the clause. Hotmail, Yahoo mail, every other email you can think of run their businesses just fine without having to make you sign all rights away forever. I suggest you have a look at their TOS's. It's BS that Google needs that clause to run their service.

The Chrome issue illustrates that Google has a history of slipping in insanely overreaching clauses. If nobody notices, they grab the rights. Only if if there is protest do they back off. Writers need to be aware of that history.

Trust Google?

The naivete I've seen in some comments is astonishing. From Wikipedia:

"Google's ambitious plans to scan millions of books and make them readable through its search engine have been criticized for copyright violations [7]. Also, Association for Learned and Professional Society Publishers and the Association of American University Presses have both issued statements strongly opposing Google Print, stating that "Google, an enormously successful company, claims a sweeping right to appropriate the property of others for its own commercial use unless it is told, case by case and instance by instance, not to."[8]

(underlining mine: a very telling quote)

See also why Google blurred faces on its streetscans, only after it was forced to do so by lawyers form the EFF.

Check out Google Watch.

Speaking of watching, watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w46vIu26dVg&feature=channel
(Watch the previous video in the series too, esp. from about the 3 min mark.)

And about Gmail specifically here's other links too (no shortage, sadly):

I recommend everyone read this before using Gmail:

http://epic.org/privacy/gmail/faq.html#12

http://www.linksandlaw.com/gmail-google-privacy-concerns.htm

shadowwalker · Nov 15, 2010

Both of those last two links were apparently looking at 2004. That seems like rather old news.

At any rate, here is from G-Mail's Legal Notices:

Gmail Legal Notices
Your Intellectual Property Rights

Google does not claim any ownership in any of the content, including any text, data, information, images, photographs, music, sound, video, or other material, that you upload, transmit or store in your Gmail account. We will not use any of your content for any purpose except to provide you with the Service.

http://www.google.com/mail/help/legal_notices.html

Seems to me that takes care of any concerns.

[email service] Gmail

Mac H.

Board Visitor

Clarion

shadowwalker

empty-nester!