Street Musicians c.1700

AZ_Dawn · Sep 3, 2010

Silly me, I make a pirate who was a street musician before she went to sea and forget to ask how street musicians were treated back then. :e2smack:

I suspect they made less money and got less respect than, say, the court musician, but beyond that, I have no clue.

How much respect did they get? Was it less than what sailors got? Did it depend on race, gender, or other social factors? Were women more prone to be harrassed, groped, whatever? Did they wear ordinary everyday clothes or something fancier or more colorful? Anything else I might need to know? If it helps, the character is a black Haitian woman. Thanks!

angeliz2k · Sep 4, 2010

AZ, we are talking England, right? Specifically London?

I did a little research on Paris, and in the 1700's, there was a big trade in political and bawdy songs. A lot of singers gathered at the Point Neuf. Would your lady be singing satirical, political stuff? Or bawdy stuff? (I would tihnk bawdy, right?)

AZ_Dawn · Sep 4, 2010

Thanks, angeliz2k!

angeliz2k said:
AZ, we are talking England, right? Specifically London?

Actually, she started her career in the Haitian port where she was born.

I did a little research on Paris, and in the 1700's, there was a big trade in political and bawdy songs. A lot of singers gathered at the Point Neuf. Would your lady be singing satirical, political stuff? Or bawdy stuff? (I would tihnk bawdy, right?)

At least some bawdy songs. Nobody throws coins at someone singing Tantum Ergo!

I don't know how well people would take a black woman signing political satire, though it's a minor port, so people might enjoy anyone who singings about the governor being a @#%&$ who only cares about himself and Port au Prince.

AZ_Dawn · Sep 26, 2010

Sorry to bump my thread here, but I really do need more information on this, especially since I mentioned this to my sister who took college music classes. (I should know better than to talk about music history near her. :e2smack:

) She said something about street musicians being a misnomer, and that they were either troubadors or played in taverns, and that my character would've probably been treated like a harlot with a guitar. I suspect she's out of period if not outright wrong.

Please, someone give me more info! Thanks!

pdr · Sep 27, 2010

Generally speaking

any street vendor was an itinerant. Lowest of the low. Real (as in good musicians) musicians would not be on the street but attached to a company/group.

A woman in 1700 on the street was generally asking for trouble.

Street ballad singers were actually selling the sheet music to the songs they warbled/croaked and were not counted as musicians.

angeliz2k · Sep 27, 2010

AZ_Dawn said:
Silly me, I make a pirate who was a street musician before she went to sea and forget to ask how street musicians were treated back then. I suspect they made less money and got less respect than, say, the court musician, but beyond that, I have no clue.

How much respect did they get? Was it less than what sailors got? Did it depend on race, gender, or other social factors? Were women more prone to be harrassed, groped, whatever? Did they wear ordinary everyday clothes or something fancier or more colorful? Anything else I might need to know? If it helps, the character is a black Haitian woman. Thanks!

Again, this is just my impression--I don't specifically know about Hatian street singers. But I agree with PDR. She would be considered pretty low, and a woman particularly so, a colored woman very much so. I would think she'd be appreciated if she were pretty, but only by those with certain intentions. That would probably be a big part of her experience: men might assume she was theirs for the taking. I don't know that they'd take her seriously.

Eddyz Aquila · Sep 27, 2010

Street musicians were always the lowest of the low because they weren't considered as workers or doing anything productive about singing those rhymes. They received a lot of abuse from the local people, so take in account that. A colored woman even worse.
About clothes I would suspect rags because they lived off what people gave them and nothing more - possibly something colourful to add to the mix to show that she was part of a group.

The post above is right, serious musicians had their own organised company.

AZ_Dawn · Sep 27, 2010

Thanks, guys! This clears up a lot.

pdr said:
any street vendor was an itinerant. Lowest of the low. Real (as in good musicians) musicians would not be on the street but attached to a company/group.

A woman in 1700 on the street was generally asking for trouble.

So maybe I should tweak her background a bit and have her play in a tavern with the famliy band instead?

angeliz2k said:
I would think she'd be appreciated if she were pretty, but only by those with certain intentions. That would probably be a big part of her experience: men might assume she was theirs for the taking. I don't know that they'd take her seriously.

She's plain, tall, and small-chested, so she probably wouldn't be especially "appreciated" (unless that was the standard of beauty back then). Still, I wondered if there might be fondling attempts made on her.

Eddyz Aquila said:
Street musicians were always the lowest of the low because they weren't considered as workers or doing anything productive about singing those rhymes. They received a lot of abuse from the local people, so take in account that. A colored woman even worse.

That could a reason to impersonate a man and go to sea!

I take it from the first sentence that most of them didn't have a "day job".

About clothes I would suspect rags because they lived off what people gave them and nothing more - possibly something colourful to add to the mix to show that she was part of a group.

So not their Sunday bests, but not necessarily dull.

Eddyz Aquila · Sep 27, 2010

AZ_Dawn said:
That could a reason to impersonate a man and go to sea! I take it from the first sentence that most of them didn't have a "day job".

Well, now that you mention it, this can be a real possibility...
Back then it was much easier to impersonate.

pdr · Sep 28, 2010

Yes...

tweak so that she's part of a group in an inn or tavern. The term pub as in public house is 19thC.

AZ_Dawn · Sep 28, 2010

pdr said:
tweak so that she's part of a group in an inn or tavern.

Will do. Thanks!

The term pub as in public house is 19thC

I thought something didn't feel right about using the word pub in a pirate setting.

Street Musicians c.1700

AZ_Dawn

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angeliz2k

never mind the shorty

AZ_Dawn

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AZ_Dawn

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pdr

angeliz2k

never mind the shorty

Eddyz Aquila

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AZ_Dawn

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Eddyz Aquila

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pdr

AZ_Dawn

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