"Only" a _____

Phaeal · Jul 30, 2010

Just one more time before I divulge my full theory in a thread of its own

: Like all bestsellers, Twilight hit the right nerves in enough people to cause a sales cascade. Some bestsellers are brilliantly written, some are pedestrian at best. Doesn't matter, as long as the book gets some critical nerves singing.

Phaeal · Jul 30, 2010

Use Her Name said:
I assumed "Twilight" is YA. Lots of older people may have read it, but it is their own fault if they read below their grade level. I always thought YA reading stopped at about 16 or so. It does not encourage the development of a vocabulary, or the expectations of more advanced themes or styles. Those people who read it well into their 20's do not really understand there is another level of reading.

Muhahahaha. I've already fired up the popcorn machine.

:popcorn:

CaroGirl · Jul 30, 2010

People like her need to go out and meet more people. "Ordinary" people can be quite amazing once you get to know them. I know SAHMs who make their own cheese, breed dogs, volunteer with environmental charities, run marathons, go on deep sea diving adventures, and write novels (among other things). Get to know people. They might surprise you.

shaldna · Jul 30, 2010

Use Her Name said:
I assumed "Twilight" is YA. Lots of older people may have read it, but it is their own fault if they read below their grade level. I always thought YA reading stopped at about 16 or so. It does not encourage the development of a vocabulary, or the expectations of more advanced themes or styles. Those people who read it well into their 20's do not really understand there is another level of reading.

How incredibly patronising.

scarletpeaches · Jul 30, 2010

Use Her Name said:
I assumed "Twilight" is YA. Lots of older people may have read it, but it is their own fault if they read below their grade level.

No. It is their own choice.

Use Her Name said:
I always thought YA reading stopped at about 16 or so. It does not encourage the development of a vocabulary, or the expectations of more advanced themes or styles.

This is wronger than Professor Wrongy McWrongcock, who lectures in Wrongology at Wrong University, Wrongtown. It's so wrong, the OED has decided to use your post as the definition of 'wrong' in the 2011 edition. It couldn't be more wrong if you minced a kitten, fed it to a puppy and trained the puppy to shit in someone's morning coffee.

Use Her Name said:
Those people who read it well into their 20's do not really understand there is another level of reading.

I'm 34, and I still read YA. I'm so glad you're here to educate me.

Kitty27 · Jul 30, 2010

I actually like SM. I have never seen such superb hustle before! I liked Twilight and she obviously struck a chord with some. Her characters draw people and so what if she isn't a technically brilliant writer? Some people read to be entertained and she delivers. Some writers are natural storytellers. SM falls into that category. Rock on,SM!

It doesn't matter what you are. What matters is the writing. I've read books by people with degrees and such. They bored me to the point that I'd rather read my PC's instruction manual. I've read books by people who are technically brilliant writers but can't tell a story. I tell you that I nearly expired from boredom! Death by a dull ass book isn't good. On the other hand,I've read books by people with little to no education and they were crack distilled to words on the page. Loved em!

You can be a maid or a doctor. If your writing draws people in,entertains or makes them think,you've done your job as a writer.

CaroGirl · Jul 30, 2010

Kitty27 said:
It doesn't matter what you are. What matters is the writing. I've read books by people with degrees and such. They bored me to the point that I'd rather read my PC's instruction manual. I've read books by people who are technically brilliant writers but can't tell a story. I tell you that I nearly expired from boredom! Death by a dull as book isn't good.

Hey! I wrote your PC's instruction manual so I take offense to that.

Kitty27 · Jul 30, 2010

CaroGirl said:
Hey! I wrote your PC's instruction manual so I take offense to that.

LOL,Caro!

I apologize!

CaroGirl · Jul 30, 2010

Kitty27 said:
LOL,Caro!

I apologize!

Well, okay then.

Jamesaritchie · Jul 30, 2010

Leah Raeder said:
While the post you're criticizing was poorly worded, I think the point is that Meyer's work comes off as indulgent, hackneyed, and unsophisticated, and doesn't take the art of storytelling (let alone prose) seriously. Her books are about a cipher Mary Sue and a love interest incessantly described as "perfect." This bespeaks amateurism.

It's great that Meyer had fun writing. And it's great that lots of people have fun reading what she wrote. But that doesn't mean her work is above criticism.

Doesn't take the art of storytelling seriously? Yes, one more reason why her books have sold 100 million copies, been made into feature films, and translated into thirty-seven languages. If this isn't taking the "art" of storytelling seriously, then neither does most of the reading public, and neither will I from now on.

As for her prose being indulgent, hackneyed, and unsophisticated, I can't help but wonder if you've even read the books? Her writing is none of these things. Well, except perhaps unsophisticated, which is definitely to the good. God save me from one more "sophisticated" writer.

CaroGirl · Jul 30, 2010

Aw, man. Does every thread that mentions SM have to devolve into a contradiction between those who dislike her work and those who think it's the best thing since sliced bread? Can't we move on here, people?

I believe the original post had a far more interesting premise than that.

scarletpeaches · Jul 30, 2010

Twilight needs its own damn forum.

Susan Coffin · Jul 30, 2010

scarletpeaches said:
Twilight needs its own damn forum.

Maybe they'll start one now!

Maybe I'll go read some YA fantasy now. It could be fun!

DeadlyAccurate · Jul 30, 2010

Use Her Name said:
I assumed "Twilight" is YA. Lots of older people may have read it, but it is their own fault if they read below their grade level.

Grade level? I haven't had a "grade" since I was a teenager. And I haven't been a teenager in nearly two decades.

I always thought YA reading stopped at about 16 or so.

You thought wrong.

It does not encourage the development of a vocabulary, or the expectations of more advanced themes or styles. Those people who read it well into their 20's do not really understand there is another level of reading.

This is insulting, incredibly patronizing, and so wrong I don't even know where to start. You obviously don't read YA if you would even say such drivel, so why spout it as fact when you can't possibly know anything about the books of which you speak?

scarletpeaches said:
This is wronger than Professor Wrongy McWrongcock, who lectures in Wrongology at Wrong University, Wrongtown. It's so wrong, the OED has decided to use your post as the definition of 'wrong' in the 2011 edition. It couldn't be more wrong if you minced a kitten, fed it to a puppy and trained the puppy to shit in someone's morning coffee.

I would've just commented in rep, but this was too brilliant to not get a public shout-out.

CaroGirl · Jul 30, 2010

Use Her Name said:
I assumed "Twilight" is YA. Lots of older people may have read it, but it is their own fault if they read below their grade level. I always thought YA reading stopped at about 16 or so. It does not encourage the development of a vocabulary, or the expectations of more advanced themes or styles. Those people who read it well into their 20's do not really understand there is another level of reading.

I have two things to say on that:

Harry Potter. Read and loved by millions of people of all ages (including me).

And don't those who aspire write YA (or MG for that matter) need to read it as well? It might not be your goal to write YA, but it's the goal of many writers. Almost all YA (and MG) is written by adults.

DeadlyAccurate said:
I would've just commented in rep, but this was too brilliant to not get a public shout-out.

Yeah. That was pretty great. You'd think she was a writer or something.

Terie · Jul 30, 2010

Use Her Name said:
I assumed "Twilight" is YA. Lots of older people may have read it, but it is their own fault if they read below their grade level. I always thought YA reading stopped at about 16 or so. It does not encourage the development of a vocabulary, or the expectations of more advanced themes or styles. Those people who read it well into their 20's do not really understand there is another level of reading.

Good grief. What pretentious, arrogant, ignorant bullshit.

There are all kinds of reasons for adults to read YA, not least of which is that right now, some of the best writing being published is YA.

Here's an idea: let people read whatever the fuck they want to read without being insulting and judgmental about it.

Gillhoughly · Jul 30, 2010

Find a better knitting group.

Anyone who says "Well, they're only a ____" about anyone is not someone I'd want to hang with.

Meyer is a typical product of her time and background and had to rip off L.J. Smith to get her decaffeinated version of vamps.

I can't stand her writing. She's on my short list of hacks who have seen huge success for reasons invisible to me. It sure ain't her skill with the craft.

But they've made more money in the last five minutes than I've made all year.

It ain't fair, it's damned annoying, but that's how life dishes it sometimes.

Lose those dismissive knitters.

Anyway, it's not "housewife" it's "domestic engineer!"

SPMiller · Jul 30, 2010

Use Her Name said:
I assumed "Twilight" is YA. Lots of older people may have read it, but it is their own fault if they read below their grade level. I always thought YA reading stopped at about 16 or so. It does not encourage the development of a vocabulary, or the expectations of more advanced themes or styles. Those people who read it well into their 20's do not really understand there is another level of reading.

Rather than tear you apart as YA writers will, I'll just point out that the greater YA market does indeed stretch into the early 20s, and some say into the mid 20s.

Otterella · Jul 30, 2010

Yeah, I kinda wondered if this would turn into a Twilight hating thread, LOL. And I'm not even going to touch the YA hating. That's just silly.

I guess I'm just insecure about being taken seriously as a writer to start with, and was worried other writers might feel the same way. And this isn't a friend I spend a lot of time with, just an hour or two once a week, where the conversation most often centers around yarny goodness. Only occasionally do we venture into other topics.

By the way, you're rarely in danger of being damaged by a knitter and her pointy sticks. We would never risk getting blood stains on our WIP. Unless of course I have a spare set in my bag.

divy · Jul 30, 2010

Otterella said:
By the way, you're rarely in danger of being damaged by a knitter and her pointy sticks. We would never risk getting blood stains on our WIP. Unless of course I have a spare set in my bag.

hmm, i hadn't thought of that. i might have to start keeping a spare pair around for just that sort of situation...

MissMacchiato · Jul 30, 2010

True, true. Frankly I wouldn't want to damage good quality needles

Gillhoughly · Jul 30, 2010

Don't underestimate a knitter.

http://www.fictionwise.com/ebooks/eBook25413.htm

When the Mafia decides to kidnap Benjamin Scarlatt, a retired British spy, they hire the services of the world's most reclusive assassin to slip him the needle and drug him into unconsciousness. Known only by the code name "the "Knitting Lady," this accomplished killer, whose identity has never been discovered, has pulled off some of the most audacious assassinations of modern time.

defcon6000 · Jul 30, 2010

Gillhoughly said:
Anyway, it's not "housewife" it's "domestic engineer!"

Ha! That's a good one!

I don't see how someone's occupation in life would effect their writing capabilities - sure, they may have different experiences, but it doesn't mean they can't write or write at a lesser quality. Of course, if your writing does suck, I'm not going to give you slack just because you're a ____. :tongue

aruna · Jul 31, 2010

Jamesaritchie said:
Stephanie Meyer is a writer. This is her profession, and she's incredibly successful. She's a writer who came into the profession while being a housewife. That's it.

Exactly. I couldn;t wait to be "only a housewife" because at last my time was my own; I didn;t have to waste it in a stuffy office, and I was able to do what I loved: write books!

A lot of people partonised me, though: oh, aren't you bored? Make sure you don;t get rusty! Don't let the roof fall on your head! were ony a few of the coments I heard.

scarletpeaches said:
This is wronger than Professor Wrongy McWrongcock, who lectures in Wrongology at Wrong University, Wrongtown. It's so wrong, the OED has decided to use your post as the definition of 'wrong' in the 2011 edition. It couldn't be more wrong if you minced a kitten, fed it to a puppy and trained the puppy to shit in someone's morning coffee..

I nominate this as post of the year 2010. It's righter than President Right of Righthaven, Rightsland in her acclaimed bestseller, the Rightness of Writing.

aruna · Jul 31, 2010

Of course, when like me you get to the ripe old age of 59, you're no longer a housewife or a SAHM. You're a Lady of Leisure! That has such a nice ring to it!

"Only" a _____

Whatever I did, I didn't do it.

Whatever I did, I didn't do it.

Living the dream

The cake is a lie. But still cake.

So Goth That I Was Born Black

Living the dream

So Goth That I Was Born Black

Living the dream

Living the dream

Tell it like it Is

Absolutely Fazed

Living the dream

Writer is as Writer does

Grumpy writer and editor

Prodigiously Hanged

rhymes with ivy

Bring on the Sweet, Sweet Coffee

Grumpy writer and editor

On a wing and a prayer

On a wing and a prayer