Question about Android Sex

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AnneMarble

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Now that I've got your attention... ;)

The setting is a far future space colony. The heroine is human, and the other MC is an android who was created to be a judge. They fall in love. Her father is a statesman, and the android was created by a rather eccentric emperor. The emperor considers the android to be his son.

But I've been thinking that her father and the emperor should be a couple. Would that make it sort of like incest if she and the android fall in love? Not blood incest, of course, but sort of like falling in love with her stepbrother? Or would it be OK because she's not falling in love with a human?

Or would it work better if the emperor and statesman only started dating after the heroine left home? :p
 

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I don't think it would be considered incest, and I've definitely seen fiction where the teens fall in love and then the single parents of the teens also fall in love. For the daughter and maybe the android, there'd probably be a ick factor (parents dating), but that wouldn't necessarily translate into the audience having it.
 

AnneMarble

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I don't think it would be considered incest, and I've definitely seen fiction where the teens fall in love and then the single parents of the teens also fall in love. For the daughter and maybe the android, there'd probably be a ick factor (parents dating), but that wouldn't necessarily translate into the audience having it.
That's good because her father and the emperor are already acting like a bickering couple. ;) I don't want to waste an interesting couple. Both of them.
 

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You could have the question raised in the story itself. How long have the father and emperor been together? Have the android and the girl been raised together, separately, occasionally knowing of the other's existence? Did the two think of each other as 'like brother/sister' at any stage?

I agree that you can pull this off without having readers think that incest is a problem, but it's up to you how much of a problem you want it to be, by playing with other factors. Personally, I don't find the fact that he's an android to be particularly indicative; far more important will be the nature of the relationships involved prior to them falling in love. If the emperor and statesman start dating only when their children are independent adults (or android equivalent thereof), then I don't think the question will be problematic at all.
 

thothguard51

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Couple of big questions for me and don't take any of this wrong...

What is the genre? Does not sound like teen lit or YA?

Does the female MC know the other MC is an android? Does her parent know the other MC is an android?

For me, having a human female falling in love with an andriod does not work all that well. I mean, if we are talking love=sex. Why? I know this is going to get me in trouble, but because women are emotional creatures at heart, especially when it comes to the term...love. Sex is seperate from love and I wonder if she can forget during times of intercourse that she is making love to a character that is part machine.

Now if it was just sex, the physical release of pent up urges, then I could accept this as no less than a woman using a sexual aide. With men, most people would not think twice in accepting a male character could bang an android without thinking about the emotions.

I think it will all depend on how you handle the emotional aspects of the human, and in giving the andriod the ability to feel real emotions and not programmed emotions.

See there I go again, allowing my science knowledge, as limited as it is, get in the way of a possible good read... I wonder, did Data ever have sex on Star Trek? If so, was he smiling afterwards? Did he have a smoke?
 

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Data did have sex, and he was smiling afterwards. But, iirc, there was some sort of drunk-like effect going on with everyone.

But even if he wasn't, there would be no reason to assume that Anne's android would be Data-like emotionally

<is also writing a teen-android love-drama>
 

AnneMarble

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You could have the question raised in the story itself. How long have the father and emperor been together? Have the android and the girl been raised together, separately, occasionally knowing of the other's existence? Did the two think of each other as 'like brother/sister' at any stage?
So far, I don't believe they ever thought of each other as brother and sister. Unlike others, she did not think of him as just a machine. She can read him well and tell when he has emotions (he tends to hide them).

I agree that you can pull this off without having readers think that incest is a problem, but it's up to you how much of a problem you want it to be, by playing with other factors. Personally, I don't find the fact that he's an android to be particularly indicative; far more important will be the nature of the relationships involved prior to them falling in love. If the emperor and statesman start dating only when their children are independent adults (or android equivalent thereof), then I don't think the question will be problematic at all.
Unless my heroine and the android start saying "Ewww." ;)

Couple of big questions for me and don't take any of this wrong...

What is the genre? Does not sound like teen lit or YA?
Definitely not. I'm hoping to write it as erotic SF romance, but I'm not sure how strong the romantic element will be. (It might be more SF with romance than romance with SF.)

Does the female MC know the other MC is an android? Does her parent know the other MC is an android?
I decided that everyone should know he's an android. Some recognize him as a human (albeit note quite), and others don't. I played with the idea of having the fact that he was an android turn out to be a surprise, but as all these characters know each other, I couldn't think of a way to do this that was logical and not awkward. (Short of his father putting him in a succession of bodies as he "grew up.")

For me, having a human female falling in love with an andriod does not work all that well. I mean, if we are talking love=sex. Why? I know this is going to get me in trouble, but because women are emotional creatures at heart, especially when it comes to the term...love. Sex is seperate from love and I wonder if she can forget during times of intercourse that she is making love to a character that is part machine.

Now if it was just sex, the physical release of pent up urges, then I could accept this as no less than a woman using a sexual aide. With men, most people would not think twice in accepting a male character could bang an android without thinking about the emotions.

I think it will all depend on how you handle the emotional aspects of the human, and in giving the andriod the ability to feel real emotions and not programmed emotions.
This android will have emotions. It may have taken him some time to develop them, or perhaps he had them for longer than anyone else thought, but he hid them. It's possible he had emotions but wasn't sure that was what he had -- perhaps enough people told him he wasn't supposed to have them. I'm not sure yet, but it will be fun finding out. :D

If you don't know what anger or love is, or what friendship is, would you know you were experiencing them? If other people didn't tell you, maybe you wouldn't understand that right away. Sometimes the things that seem so obvious to us are complicated. When I was a child, my mother would tell me "Go to sleep," and I would wonder if I knew how to fall asleep, and I'd wonder that just before falling asleep. ;) (OK, my android doesn't sleep, which means he probably spends the late hours reading legal precedent or something. zzz)

See there I go again, allowing my science knowledge, as limited as it is, get in the way of a possible good read... I wonder, did Data ever have sex on Star Trek? If so, was he smiling afterwards? Did he have a smoke?
With Tasha Yar, but I don't know if he smiled afterwards. :) While I loved the character, I think they dropped the ball now and then. As the Nitpickers Guide pointed out... He was this incredibly brilliant android, but he couldn't use contractions? :p
 

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There's Tanith Lee Silver Metal Lover, too, in addition to Data.
 

ELMontague

That one is entirely up to you, AnneMarble. Either way it works. Either way they have their own set of problems. What do you want to say?
 

AnneMarble

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That one is entirely up to you, AnneMarble. Either way it works. Either way they have their own set of problems. What do you want to say?
That might change by the time I'm done. :D So far, So far, I want it to be about how people treat him differently because they don't believe he's fully human and don't believe he has emotions (although he does show them, albeit in a controlled way).

Then again, in the original version, he was a judge in his 30s who had been horribly abused by his father (now deceased), and she was barely 20 years old. I read the first draft again and wanted to gag. But I started it while I was in college, so I guess I had an excuse to suck. :tongue I've always wanted to do this one right.
 

Dawnstorm

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For me, having a human female falling in love with an andriod does not work all that well. I mean, if we are talking love=sex. Why? I know this is going to get me in trouble, but because women are emotional creatures at heart, especially when it comes to the term...love. Sex is seperate from love and I wonder if she can forget during times of intercourse that she is making love to a character that is part machine.

Now if it was just sex, the physical release of pent up urges, then I could accept this as no less than a woman using a sexual aide. With men, most people would not think twice in accepting a male character could bang an android without thinking about the emotions.

I have actually no issues with the emotional side; that's all character. I suppose machine emotion is not subject to hormones. (Unless the android runs an emulator, or has built in hardware cycles...)

I do wonder why an android created to be a judge would come with the hardware equipment to make love. Either it's standard model mass production, or a really interesting legal system. [Or it's just the emperor's excentricity...]
 

Paul

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I do wonder why an android created to be a judge would come with the hardware equipment to make love. Either it's standard model mass production, or a really interesting legal system. [Or it's just the emperor's excentricity...]


LOL

Is this a real question OP, or are you winding us up?

Course if the Android is a representation of a past boyfriend...
 

thothguard51

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Again, here is my issue. In order for me to suspend my hard science beliefs on this subject. The female MC would not know the male MC is an android. Once she falls in love with him and then finds out the truth...(you can go for how many hours?), she is going to feel betrayed, but emotionally, it may not matter by then.

But if she starts off knowing he is android, that's like me wanting to go to bed with my my 68 Chevelle Malibu SS or my hoover vacuum. I loved that car, but I ain't giving it an engagement ring. A machine, is a machine, is a machine, no matter what kind of chips you put into it. So, if the story arch has some miraculous occurrence where the android can experience emotions not pre programmed, it is still hardwired way differently than humans.

Adult wise, it does not work for me. My hard science keeps getting in the way.

If YA, the kids can suspend because most don't have the knowledge to question. But if YA...then there goes the sex scenes for the most part. Still, even some YA are going to snicker about having sex with a machine.

Keep at it till you find the right formula...
 

Shadow_Ferret

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In regards to android sex, make sure they have plenty of this on hand:

200.jpg
 

thothguard51

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Another thought...

I think both men and women will admit that its a big turn on, when they know they got their partner aroused.

If I was the female MC, I would constantly be wondering...is it me he is glad to see in my itty bitty baby doll nightie, or is it his programming? After awhile, that might get to me.
 

Ambri

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Thothguard51, I have to respectfully disagree with your comments. I don't think there's really any comparison between a car and an android. By its very definition, an android is a robot/ artificial creation MADE to resemble a human (the Greek prefix "Andr" means "man", I think). As the creator of this android specifically created him to be his son--as the OP said--why wouldn't he have given him the ability to experience emotions, be physically capable of sex, etc?

I think on the second season of Star Trek Nex Gen, there was a very good episode where they had to have a court case to decide whether Data was an object that was "owned" by Starfleet, or an actual lifeform/ individual, capable of free will. They decided in Data's favor, of course, but the arguments were something along the lines of: Data is capable of higher reasoning, and has a sense of "self" (just like humans, dolphins, etc).

Before you write off android-human love, I suggest that you read the affore-mentioned Silver Metal Lover. It is one of the most well-written and moving love stories I have ever read.
 

thothguard51

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Ambri...

No disrespect taken, disagree anytime. I am open. I read the book some years back. Yes, it is handled well, but it still did not suspend my science beliefs on the basic facts.


I am not saying an android can not be another life form. Hell, you put enough gizmo's in a hoover vacuum and it could become another life form, but it still started out as a hoover.

We are not talking about a clone here. We are talking about a man made machine that has human abilities, which may or may not include human organs of flesh and blood. I remember the Data trial episode, but you also have to remember, even after the trail, it did not stop them from turning him off when needed. He was still an Android, and not a human life form that has free choices.

My trouble is not with the Android, but the emotional connection the MC is going to have. If she starts out knowing the Android was not human, she will never ever forget this fact and therein lies my problem. She can push it aside, but it is going to resurface at the most awkward times because she is human and illogical, emotionally speaking. This in itself could be a very compelling story line just based on this alone...IMHO.

Of course, it could always end up going the erotica route and no one will care about the sci fi stuff.
 

Ardent Kat

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In answer to the original question, I don't think that would be weird or incestuous at all. Similar stories have been done plenty of times with flesh-and-blood humans who fall in love, who may have even been raised as siblings but aren't blood related.

B&N has the follow-up as an e-book but not the original. I'll look for the print edition. And as soon as I buy it, I'll find a copy in the basement.

I got my copy of Silver Metal Lover from PaperbackSwap.com Could be a good place to find it (and other out-of-print books)

Thoth, you've made it clear you find the idea implausible or undesirable, but that's just one opinion among many. Clearly the success of Silver Metal Lover shows it's a commercially viable premise that many readers enjoyed. You say, "If I was a woman, this wouldn't work for me," but at least half the commenters in this thread who are women think otherwise. Maybe women can speak for themselves on this issue? ;)

I love android protagonists and I'd love to see more novels with them. Please keep writing this one, Anne!
 
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