Multiple Documents

Doomie said:

Hey Y'all:

I'd been having a TERRIBLE time with Word 2007 with regard to understanding how to write my MS [starting the page count from the 1st chapter, starting a new chapter without the previous chapter running into it, not having to scroll thru the entire document to find a passage, etc]. Then someone suggested the following:


"When I create a manuscript, I create a new file for each chapter. Things are much more manageable that way. Just not a good idea to have one long document with all your chapters together. And you can keep them as separate files even when you send them to your book layout person. It's usually easier for them to deal with the ms when sent to them that way."


1) Has anyone else done this?

2) And if so, was it actually better for the agent, editor, or interior designer?

Click to expand...

If you use this format for your own writing and drafts, that is fine. But when it comes time to submit to an agent or editor, you will have to merge all the separate chapters back into one, properly formatted document, with continuous page numbers and formatting, etc.

A few helpful hints on formatting:

When you hit the end of a chapter, use a "page break" (Instert > Break > Page Break).

For page numbers, they will stay continuous through the whole document, if you use page breaks (and not section breaks) at the end of chapters. Just select Insert > page number. And make sure you click the box to show the page number on the first page if you want the number "1" printed on the first page (as opposed to starting the numbering with page one, but not actually printing "1" on the first page).

To find passages in your manuscript, use the Edit: Find function. Click on Edit. Then on Find. And type in a word or phrase from that passage (one that is distinct) and the tool will show you one by one, every instance of that word or phrase.


~suki

I.hate.Word2007.

Okay, now that I got that off my chest....

Three years ago, when I first got Word 2007, I found I had to buy Word 2007 for Dummies. Usually I don't need those books, but this version of Word was driving me insane.

So...as for a large file--keep it together. Agents and editors really just want one file to download, not several. To make a new chapter, go to "Insert" then "Page Break."

As for page numbers--ugh. I still have trouble and have to refer to my book. For me it's complicated. For others--maybe not.

I agree with keeping it as 1 file. What I've done for managing a long document is I use the Styles (found in the top Ribbon under Home). I customize a Style for Novel (this is for the main text area), Chapter (have the text centred, etc) and Scene (this is also centred and I number my scenes for now, can always remove and replace with *** later).

So, when you want to start a new chapter, click Chapter and a new scene, click Scene. (For the formatting of Chapter, I have the next style be Scene and for the format of Scene, I have the next style be Novel).

Then, here's the managability part. I display the Document Map on the left and it lists all the chapters and scenes. If you want to go to Chapter 9, Scene 3 then just click it and voila. I have begun naming my scenes so that I can easily tell what is going on in it and aids me in finding it quickly.

If this interests you and you want more details on how to set up the styles, message me and I can send you some screen shots.

I keep all my chapters separate until it's time to cram them together in Word (I don't write in word!). I do that by going to Insert, Object -->text from file. Select all files, and bingo they're in. It works for Word docs, plain text, or RTF. Short, meaningful file names make this trick easy -- something and a number (ch01, ch02...ch30).

The "hard" part is that the idiots didn't put a text label on the Object button, it's a silly picture with a cactus.

Doomie, I don't see why you couldn't use the styles for a non-fiction book.

For me (writing in WORD 2000 and having worked through Wordstar (1987), troff, and every version of WORD from the first):

To start a new page: <ctrl> & <enter>

Learn styles. At the very least you can do away with the <enter> <tab> issue. If you set up your "Chapter" style as a "Heading I", you can use the "outline" view to very quickly move between Chapters. As a working tool, you can also use a style for "Heading II" to show events inside a chapter -- think of it like a sticky note. Looking at it in outline view, you can see the "sticky note" flow. Similar to what some people do with real sticky notes and plotting something out.

There are tutorials all over the place on the web. Take some time and check them out. I'd venture to say that no one word processing program is perfect -- each one will have its ups and downs and purchase costs. Find the one that suits you best and learn it.

But when you send something in, it does have to be one file. And that file has to be formatted properly -- new chapters on new page, page headers correct, etc.

Are there any publishers today who really totally rekey an electronic MS? Why? Please, whoever you are, go spend the money on some decent copy editors!

FWIW--very little after so many answers already--I've tried writing each chapter as its own file and will never do it again. Merging produced format problems which did not exist in the separate documents. (This was on some older version of Word than word 2003, which is what I use now.)

It sounds to me like you should spend fifteen minutes teaching yourself a few Word 2007 basics, focusing either on getting the page set-up and do-it-yourself layout instructions learned (make a 'cheat sheet' for quick reference until you really learn it) or learning Styles. Either one will produce a single document which is perfectly formatted, correctly numbered, and all that.

Maryn, fashionably late

I used to save my chapters in several documents, but then, I decided to write all my chapters for the same manuscript into one document, and to start a new chapter I just type Enter like two or three times and start the new chapter there. Never knew I had to do a page break every time I started a new chapter.

MagaliFuentes said:

I used to save my chapters in several documents, but then, I decided to write all my chapters for the same manuscript into one document, and to start a new chapter I just type Enter like two or three times and start the new chapter there. Never knew I had to do a page break every time I started a new chapter.

Click to expand...

Yeah, that took me awhile to figure out, too. Someone here on tech help (Roger, I think, or Fahim) taught me that. And I have the $#&**&# book for help. Your ms. does turn out better that way. Because in time, for some reason, if you don't do "page break" for each new chapter, they can get strangely formatted. At least for me.

I don't bother with formatting at all until I've finished. I just hit enter twice after a chapter, write Chapter 2 - enter, then keep writing. I tried the separate documents for chapters and it was just a mess...

Once I've finished all chapters and edited the crap out of it, THEN I worry about making it look pretty.

MS Word is a powerful word processing tool, designed for business users. Authors only need a small percentage of its features.
To save yourself many headaches, learn how to work with Styles and Templates. This might take an hour or two, depending on how resistant you are to techno-speak. Then, create a style and template that works for your manuscript. Use that style as the template for all new manuscript documents.

You wouldn't expect to climb into the cockpit of an airplane and just take off and fly to another town, with no flight training. Why would you expect to operate a sophisticated program without learning the fundamentals.

Maryn said:

FWIW--very little after so many answers already--I've tried writing each chapter as its own file and will never do it again. Merging produced format problems which did not exist in the separate documents. (This was on some older version of Word than word 2003, which is what I use now.)

It sounds to me like you should spend fifteen minutes teaching yourself a few Word 2007 basics, focusing either on getting the page set-up and do-it-yourself layout instructions learned (make a 'cheat sheet' for quick reference until you really learn it) or learning Styles. Either one will produce a single document which is perfectly formatted, correctly numbered, and all that.

Maryn, fashionably late

Click to expand...

Maryn-fashionaby-late, so you've had major problems when merging files/chapters? Hum, it makes me shiver b/c that's what I'm doing (in Word 2003). Each chapter, one separate file. Produce a single document, perfectly formatted, correctly numbered = formula for spare later headaches. Jeez, I must start all over.
[*scratches head*]

Adagio

I always write each chapter in a separate document. Once I've finished them all (or earlier if I want a total word count), I create a master document.

Steps:

Create a folder called NovelName.

Create a new document as you write each chapter. Save each document after the chapter number (eg. 1, 2, 3).

In the document, ensure that the chapter name is in heading 1 style. Create a style called "MS Body" for everything else.

When you're ready to combine chapters, create a document called "NovelNameMaster". Save it in the same directory as your chapters.

Change the view to Outline view.

After selecting Outline view a panel appears on the View toolbar called "Master Document" which has two buttons. Click the Show Document button.

More buttons will appear.

Select Insert.

Select 1.doc.

The document contents will appear (looking funny) in your master document.

Rinse, repeat until all your current chapters are in the master document as sub-documents. [Note: it will irritatingly warn you that you have the same style in each of your sub-documents. If you've been using your styles correctly, tell it there's no need to rename your styles.]

Various other buttons will have appeared/become active on the Outline toolbar. Of particular interest is the Show Level option. If you've properly made your headings using heading one style you'll be able to tell the document to only show the headings (great for jumping quickly to a chapter). You can also rearrange the order of the chapters, promote paragraphs according to whatever heading level structure you're using, and click to the left of the heading/document/paragraph to open or close a particular heading/document/paragraph.

Master document is an extremely powerful tool and the idea is that you can work on all your documents at once using one. You're not creating a copy of the documents here - if you open a master document, you open every one of the sub-documents and if you save a change in the master, that change will be saved in the sub-document. I use it primarily out of fear of document corruption (there's nothing I dislike more than having open a several hundred page document when I'm just working on the current chapter) or of leaning on the keyboard and saving over the content of the entire document or whatever.

However, I never work on the document in the master itself. I use it only for total word count and for combining. And when I combine to send an e-version of the manuscript, I will expand all the documents, switch to Page Layout view, Ctrl A, Ctrl C and paste in a new document.

I usually only bother about headers and footers and full submission layout once it's in my new copy document. As with everything else, consistency is key. [I'm the MS Word power user for my office, so actually get trained in this junk.]

Kurzon, frankly, after reading your post I feel like going back to quill.
Or typewriter.

Thank you very much. I'll save your post somewhere for guidance. No doubt my weekend looks very busy.

My approach has always been to leave formatting in the closet until all the content is there. I usually advise other Word know-nots to do the same. They will all insist on starting nice numbered lists (which they want to indent manually) and then they wonder why they can't get out of numbered list mode to start a new paragraph, etc.. It would be so much easier for them to go back over and format something that is only a few pages long. And there's my friend who sends me stuff to be edited into a publication and who uses unimaginable combinations of spaces and tabs to create faux columns. LOLz

Yes, it is a wonderful thing to learn the basics of word processing. Unfortunately, not everyone is good at self-teaching on the fly while trying to write a book (or whatever). That's why I hear my name called a lot at work Practicing is best done on small chunks and with no time pressure.

I've play with styles, which can backfire in interesting ways, and have tried creating a manuscript template. For me, the template was useless. I don't write in Word (except in short bits for work), and when I insert or paste stuff in, everything goes to heck in a handbasket anyway.

My own novel is in separate files, HTML (web pages) with very consistent formatting. That's because I'm a geek When it goes into Word, I only have to search and replace a few things and change the font. Chapter titles are already at the right outline level, all's right with the world. But that would be even simpler if each part were a Word doc with consistent formatting. And, of course, orderly file names.

Matera, when you paste information into a document where you've set up styles, select the style of the paragraph where your cursor is, and then use Paste Unformatted. This will bring across only the text and will not bring across conflicting styles. [You'll lose things like underlining, however, so your mileage may vary.]

A plain text editor. Like Notepad.

I don't believe that anyone needs a word processor to write. To format, certainly, but not to jot down words and save them. There are even software-independent spell checkers -- I have Tiny Spell watching over my shoulder right now -- and programs that will count words copied to the clipboard from anything. There are text editors that not only count words but will count their frequency. Wonderful world of freeware; fast, unbloated, and much of it portable. I carry my favorite things on USB sticks.

I have had several versions of M$ Office since the days when all I had was Notepad in an old Windows 95 doorstop, but because of my eyesight I still prefer a good text editor. Why? because I can set the background color and display font size and color for comfort and readability without affecting the contents of the file. Word has a decent Draft View, but it is still glaring black on white. I've found I work better with white on dark slate gray. The only simple alternative Word ever offered was glaring white on glaring blue. Dang near gives me a headache. I don't like blue pens either --

I'm always astonished that people are still using such a godawful piece of software as Word for their writing. It's so over-inflated with unnecessary features, and having one continuous document for an entire novel is unwieldy and awkward. Hates it, I does.
Have you tried yWriter? It's made by an AW member who goes by the tag Spacejock, and it is fabulous. Created for writers, by a writer and all that. Worth a look, at the very least.

I like Spacejock's writing, but I've never got into the programs either. OT funny: I was hunting software (not writing, but book cataloging) with someone today and guess whose site he stumbled across.