Would you still submit to HQ?

I voted no, but I was on the no side before all this unethical stuff started so I'm not sure if my vote should count.

Absolutely not.

For many writers a HQ book is their first sale, and now it no longer counts as a professional publishing credit with the RWA.

I respect them taking a strong stance on this. They've got balls, so to speak.

I have NO respect for HQ for what they're doing to new writers with this unholy vanity press hookup. It's nothing more than a way to prey on neos who already think big houses won't give you a chance and that you have to pay to get published.

Until HQ gets their business act together, admits that they goofed up, I will tell new writers to sub their works elsewhere.

They are better off self-pubbing through Lulu, than dropping thousands on Hh and having to split the meager earnings with them.

Shame on you HQ. SHAME!

Gillhoughly said:

Absolutely not...Until HQ gets their business act together, admits that they goofed up, I will tell new writers to sub their works elsewhere.

They are better off self-pubbing through Lulu, than dropping thousands on Hh and having to split the meager earnings with them.

Shame on you HQ. SHAME!

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With all due respect Gillhoughly, we agree up to a point.

Let the record be clear that I am 100% AGAINST HqHo. 100%. Like you, I'd tell anyone who is going to self-publish to go with Lulu and the like before even considering HqHo.

That being said, Hqn has other legitimate imprints that are hand over fist money makers. I could advise someone to take a moral stance and never again sub to Hqn because of their bad business decision. Or I could advise to take a good business stance and sub to one of the largest publishers out there.

Torstar may have been trying to find another way to bring in more money to their only profitable division, but obviously never expected the backlash they received. I would hope they're not foolish enough to believe this will blow over and as a result, will find a compromise (perhaps behave like the other major publishers who have self-pub imprints--but wisely remain mum about it) that will satisfy everyone in the end. Changing the name of HqHo (which I still giggle over) is a start. Removing any links to the self-pub option on rejection letters would be a gigantic step in making the major players (RWA, SFWA, MWA) happy.

It's my personal opinion that Hqn will sort this out in the end. So, had the poll question been would I submit to HqHo? Absolutely not. To the other legitimate imprints? Absolutely. I'm an informed enough writer to know not to touch HqHo with a ten foot pole.

... if I was a romance writer I'd sub to other publishers in the romance biz in view of what HQ has been up to. It would make me feel uneasy to think that I was connected with a company that was profiting off inexperienced writers in the ways they are.

I'd also be a bit apprehensive about whether I could fully trust HQ. If they're willing to bend principles and practices, set by the industry, in order to increase profits in their self-publishing ventures who's to say they won't do likewise when negotiating contracts and whatnot with their regular imprints?

HQ does corner a large part of the market, to be sure, but there are other publishers who do romance too. So I'd suggest writers try them, at least first. And if that doesn't prove successful then maybe giving HQ a stab.

Ken said:

...

HQ does corner a large part of the market, to be sure, but there are other publishers who do romance too. So I'd suggest writers try them, at least first. And if that doesn't prove successful then maybe giving HQ a stab.

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With all due respect, Ken, this shows a complete lack of understanding of what HQ does.

For the vast majority of their publishing, they have very specific lines with very specific requirements.

And if you write a book that's likely a good fit for one of those lines, then...there really aren't many other places you can publish that book. Unless you want to go the small press or epub route, which is any author's right to choose.

But if you are looking to publish category romance...HQ is pretty much the only game in town. It's what they're GOOD at.

So it's easy to say take your book elsewhere, but if you've done your job right...there isn't a whole of "elsewhere" available. Not at places that still have decent marketplace distribution.

Susan G.

Susan Gable said:

But if you are looking to publish category romance...HQ is pretty much the only game in town. It's what they're GOOD at.

So it's easy to say take your book elsewhere, but if you've done your job right...there isn't a whole of "elsewhere" available. Not at places that still have decent marketplace distribution.

Susan G.

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This is not just for North America either; they pretty much own the world market, with the exception of Asia, yes?

Medievalist said:

This is not just for North America either; they pretty much own the world market, with the exception of Asia, yes?

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Yes. And they've been making great in-roads in Asia as well.

Susan G.

The following publishers are the major players in mainstream romance. They all produce mass market paperback, trade paperback (not print on demand) and hardcover.

Avon Books-- A subsidiary of Harper Collins,

Dorchester Publishing

Hachette Book Group USA -- In 2006, a French Publishing Company name Hachette Livre acquired Time Warner Book Group from the Time Warner Company

Kensington Publishing Corp-- They produce several lines, including Zebra, Brava, and Pinnacle.

Penguin Group, Inc -- Formerly known as Penguin Putnam, this longtime publisher has recently changed its name. They publish the NAL and Berkley/Jove lines of romance.

Random House, Inc-- They publish most of their romances under the Ballantine/Ivy, Bantam/Dell, Delacorte, and Doubleday names.

Simon and Schuster -- They publish both contemporary under the Pocket imprint and historical under the Sonnet imprint.

St. Martin's Press -- Their romance line, Tor

Source: http://www.passionatepen.com/romancepubs.htm

As Susan says up above, I don't know anything about the romance market or what HQ exactly handles or even what 'category romance' is as compared to ordinary romance, but this list up above from Passionate Pen might be of help for anyone seeking other places than HQ to submit to. The site, itself, provides links to submission guidelines for the publishers. The one to Harlequin was removed by P.P. because of their Horizon venture.

vv And there's also Grand Central Publishing and Bantam. vv

Category romance is a Harlequin product. The stories they print have to fit very strict guidelines that are provided in detail on the Harlequin website. Of course no other publisher would buy it.

And Ken, there is also Grand Central Publishing and Bantam.

If you choose to write "category" you are obviously targeting Harlequin since they're the only ones who publish it. If you write romance, you have any number of options, which may or may not include Harlequin's other single title lines (i.e. Mira, Luna, HQN).

Ken said:

As Susan says up above, I don't know anything about the romance market or what HQ exactly handles or even what 'category romance' is as compared to ordinary romance,

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So, if you don't know, then why are you advising people here?

What you've listed are places that publish single title romances.

Category romances are not the same animal. Which is why I say that if a writer has done his/her job properly in writing a book targeting a specific Harlequin line, there really aren't many other places to take it.

Category novels run 40-65k. Single titles run 80-120k. Each line has its own specific requirements, whether it be added mystery, dark paranormal, specific elements of contemporary romance (alpha heroes, rich international heroes, etc.) or a very specific tone.

Not to mention there's a volume issue. The sheer number of new titles HQ publishes in a given year is MASSIVE. My line alone publishes 72 books per year. I don't know that St. Marin's puts out that many books in a year, and that would only be equal to just my line.

I'm not going to tell people where they should or shouldn't submit their books. But I want to make it clear that HQ is pretty much the only game in town for category romances.

Yes, there are smaller options. And those can be GOOD options, I'm not saying otherwise.

But if you're looking for a big-gun publisher as a home for a category romance... HQ is it. They're the first-string option.

Which doesn't mean that I endorse this latest venture.

Susan G.

Susan Gable said:

But I want to make it clear that HQ is pretty much the only game in town for category romances.

Yes, there are smaller options. And those can be GOOD options, I'm not saying otherwise.

But if you're looking for a big-gun publisher as a home for a category romance... HQ is it. They're the first-string option.

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This.

Since I don't want to submit to HQ anymore, I now have to gut and completely rewrite two WIPs (which were originally targeted toward one of HQ's category lines) so they can be single title romances. In the end, the only things that will be left standing are the characters' original names and maybe their occupations.

Susan is right -- if you're writing category romance, there are NO comparable options to HQ. They have a monopoly in the category romance niche.

Bubastes said:

This.

Since I don't want to submit to HQ anymore, I now have to gut and completely rewrite two WIPs (which were originally targeted toward one of HQ's category lines) so they can be single title romances. In the end, the only things that will be left standing are the characters' original names and maybe their occupations.

.

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And there you go. That's exactly what has to be done with a category romance that you want to change to a single title. There's a lot of work. It CAN be done, but...we're talking MAJOR revisions at the story level as well as the writing level. You seem to have a good grasp of that, so you are already three steps ahead of the game.

Good luck!!

Susan G.

Another good place to look when researching publishers is Brenda Hiatt's webpage.
http://www.eharlequin.com/storeitem.html?iid=19926

She gives ranges of advances. Most of the ones you listed Ken offer much higher advance ranges than most of the Harlequin lines. Though I imagine Harlequin may make up for things in volume based on their world wide monopoly on print books under 60K.

... that 'monopoly' may crumble if they persist in their ways, which are not sitting well with the publishing industry. Sure they make money off us lugs, but when we find ourselves in a bind it seems like the publishing industry and organizations affiliated with it have our interests at heart. Pretty cool

I sent a query to the HQN Books division a couple weeks ago.

Had Harlequin been outted for this rash vanity press move, I probably would have directed the query elsewhere. BUT, on the off chance I get a request and they offer me a contract WITH an advance, I'd be pretty hard pressed to say no.

Again:

jennontheisland said:

Though I imagine Harlequin may make up for things in volume based on their world wide monopoly on print books under 60K.

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I have no idea whether or not it's true, but I saw a tweet this morning that said Harlequin sells four books a second.

A second.

Yeah. I'll take some of that.

ETA: In retrospect, maybe it was a minute. lol. In either event, I'd like to be there.

It's four books a second.

60 sec/min * 60 min/hour * 24 hour/day * 365 day/year = 31 million seconds a year

They sold 131 million in 2006, which is roughly four a second.

I tried to write a category romance; it came out horror. So much for that. But I have to admit I'm glad I can't sub it to Harlequin now because they would pretty much be the only game in town. If they'd turned it down, sure, maybe it could go to Ellora's Cave or Samhain. But you'd have to write pretty damn fast to make a decent wage on what they pay.

If I wrote a book that was a fit for HQ... I'd submit. I also predict other publishers will open vanity wings... its just another change in the industry... love it, hate it... it doesnt matter... change is here

Susan Gable said:

So, if you don't know, then why are you advising people here?

What you've listed are places that publish single title romances.

Category romances are not the same animal. Which is why I say that if a writer has done his/her job properly in writing a book targeting a specific Harlequin line, there really aren't many other places to take it.

Category novels run 40-65k. Single titles run 80-120k. Each line has its own specific requirements, whether it be added mystery, dark paranormal, specific elements of contemporary romance (alpha heroes, rich international heroes, etc.) or a very specific tone..

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QFT

There is no other market for category romance. By no other market, I mean No Other Market.

• Mills and Boon created the category romance.
• Harlequin Enterprises began licensing and reprinting Mills and Boon titles in North America
• Mills and Book increased their distribution and publishing from England and the UK to the Commonwealth, especially Australia, South Africa and New Zealand, and then to the Netherlands, France, and Italy. By 1980 they were publishing in 48 languages.
• Silhouette tried to compete with Harlequin Enterprises, directly, and thus gave us Nora Roberts, and Dixie Browning and others.
• Harlequin bought Mills and Boon, and then Silhouette.

There is no other publisher for category romance.

Did I mention that there is no other market for category romance? By no other market, I mean No Other Market.

Clearly there IS a strong market for categories. They are often the target of scorn from outsiders, and who can blame comedians who take potshots at titles like The Playboy Sheikh's Virgin Stable-Girl? (Dang, I wish I'd written that one, if only for the bragging rights!)

HQ is the unopposed Queen of Categories, is very well aware of it.

Categories are comfort food for the mind, undemanding, unpretentious, escapist entertainment with a guaranteed happy ending. That's why we love them! There have been times in my life when I very much needed exactly what they provide. I've not cared if the writing was award-winning or not, I just wanted escape.

There are plenty of established pros who will write a HQ category for cash and leave it to their agent to do the heavy lifting. These writers are secure in their status.

There are plenty of aspiring writers who don't care whether their work is considered a pro sale or not, so long as their HQ book is in the store for 6 weeks and that their checks clear.

But this is a solid kick in the goolies for aspiring writers who want the cash AND to be seen by others in the industry as professionals, eligible for memberships in organizations like RWA and deserving of respect from other writers.


Jackie Kessler put the bad bits about the HQ/Hh jiggery-pokery in good order, well worth reading.

If HQ insists on bulling through with this Hh crap and continue to pretend nothing's wrong being in bed with a vanity press, it may well impact on their category lines in the long run with fewer writers sending in work.

Or nothing at all can happen.

They're likely counting on that and unworried.

It's good to be queen.

.

Up to a point...

Gillhoughly said:

Clearly there IS a strong market for categories. They are often the target of scorn from outsiders, and who can blame comedians who take potshots at titles like The Playboy Sheikh's Virgin Stable-Girl? (Dang, I wish I'd written that one, if only for the bragging rights!)

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No kidding. But then there's always The Cowboy Billionaire's Virgin Secretary's Amnesiac Secret Baby. Oh wait, the baby's not the one that's supposed to have amnesia. . . .

I'm not particularly thrilled about this vanity imprint crap but I have a full out with a Silhouette editor. I wrote that book specifically for that line. I read probably two dozen of the latest releases in that line before penning that book. Sure, I could probably sell it to one of my epublishers...but non-steamy books don't sell nearly as well as steamy stuff. I wouldn't make anywhere near the standard advance for that line off of ebooks.

I'll be brutally honest. I have a 10 week old baby with a complex heart defect. Right now every royalty check I earn off my naughty books goes right to medical bills. I can't afford to take the high ground on this one. If Silhouette offers a contract and an advance, I'm taking it.

You do what you gotta do. No need to explain or apologize for it.