How much is too much?

If you can identify a problem with it, and I mean state what the issue is, then you probably need to do something. If you just have some vague feeling it isn't good enough, you most likely should take some time away from the manuscript.

This is where beta readers come in really handy. I'd say recruit about three people to read your opening couple of chapters and ask them for critiques. That'll give you a quick reality check.

You want to make this the BEST that it can be. If it takes 15 rewrites, then so be it. Only you know when you've done your best. Is "good" good enough for you?

But when you find yourself tinkering with sentence here and sentence there, or punctuation or trying out different word choices, then maybe you're done with it.

For me, the answer lies in the word "nagging." I've learned to trust that feeling. It's generally my subconscious trying to tell me something.

Trust your instincts, no matter how many times it takes to get to the point that nothing is nagging anymore.

And as maestro said, when you get to the point where all you're tweaking is a word here and there or some punctuation, it's probably time to be done. Unless there's still something that's nagging at you.

Beth (aka Annelise Ryan)

What cfwgal said.

Do you have a beta reader who's familiar enough with your story and characters to give you an objective opinion on this particular edit?

If you don't, I'd say, if you're starting to ask yourself whether you're going too far, you probably are. Stop and remember that this book will be edited by an agent (probably) and a professional editor (definitely) before it gets published. It is okay to allow them to make the calls on stuff like this that's driving you up a wall.

Every time I'm getting to the bottom of the edit barrel, it rains. And then there are all the odd little loose ends and just plain oopses I leave behind every time and pick up next time. Oy. It never ends, it just tapers off until it's time to say enough. May that time be soon.

A few years ago, I thought my novel was done, and I started looking for an agent. (It took me about four years of writing and revising to get to this point.) The agent search took about a year and during that time I didn't work on the novel at all (hey, it was done!)

After I signed with an agent, she requested some revisions, so I went back into the novel. And after not touching it at all for a year... I hated it. It was full of stuff I couldn't stand. For a while I wanted to trash the whole thing. (Luckily I didn't act on that..)

While I was working on those revisions I asked myself a lot of the same questions you're asking -- how do I know if it *really* needs to be changed? Am I being too critical? Am I somehow going to mess it up completely by trying to make it better?

In the end I changed a lot more than what the agency specifically asked for. And I think it's a better novel because of it. There's still a bit more work to be done, which I'm working on now, but the agency didn't dislike or reject the changes I'd made -- which tells me that I was right to fix the things that were bugging me, even if no one specifically came out and said to me "This is a problem, fix it."

I'm now working on what will I really hope will be the final round of revisions, and I'm still finding stuff like that. I'm trying not to change more than what they asked for this time around, because at some point this novel needs to be finished, but there are some parts that still just don't sit quite right with me -- and if they don't sit right with me, how can I expect them to work for my readers, who don't have the long personal history with these characters and this story that I do?

I guess my point is that if you're anything like me, parts that bug you now are going to keep bugging you until you get them right. Which doesn't necessarily mean you need to make everything in your novel perfect right this minute. If I hadn't put it aside for a year, I don't think I would have seen all the flaws I ended up fixing in my revision. But it's funny how as I revised, some stuff that had been in the novel for a long time started falling away, and I realized as it did, wow, I NEVER liked that bit, but for whatever reason I thought it had to be there.

(Sorry, maybe this isn't helpful advice. But you're definitely not the only person to go through this!)

Have you considered posting your scene or even your whole first chapter in the Share Your Work forum here? Maybe that would give you the insight you need

When do you stop editing? I’m not wise enough to answer that question, and I’ve never seen it answered to my satisfaction. Roughly, and very roughly, I now give myself a year to complete a project, eight months to write and four months to edit. But, some people can complete the process in three months and others take ten years, producing a Bonfire of Vanities.

Look at the biggest bestseller, the bible. After some 1,400 years, an editor comes along and revises it yet again, spending many lonely years locked away in a German castle to complete his task. Yet Martin Luther’s revision, for a great swathe of readers, is better than the original. Another swathe is happy with the original version.

Farfetched? Probably, but it happened.

Despite beta readers, writing forums and a trillion books on how to write, the writer is still that lonely man locked away in his castle somewhere, pontificating on when to stop editing.

Save your current version and then re-edit your first chapter / scene that's bugging you. (Ie. make a back up of current copy)

Send both versions plus a couple more chapters (to let it be seen with as much clarity as possible) to your readers, and get them to vote on which is best. You might wind up needing a compromise, in which case SYW can probably help you out, to try and get the best of both worlds.

It's just a gut feeling, but I'd say your nagging feeling to change it mixed with how you're not sure if this is overkill, to me that says compromise, which first requires writing the alternative so you know HOW to compromise the scene.

Good luck with it.

How much is too much? Simple answer:

One word more than is necessary for the story.

caw

I still have articles I've written that make me cringe, seeing them years later. Sometimes you just need to say 'enough' and move on. I don't think one will ever be entirely happy with something, because you move on and learn more, and you change as a person.

Changing as a person makes the earlier decision come out in a new light, and you can fret about not making the decisions you would make now back then. That was a horridly convoluted sentence... Hope the meaning gets across anyway.

Thinking about Thomas Wolfe writing 10,000 words by hand in one day gives me cramps up to the forearm.

The moment you start to get fed up with editing is the moment you have to stop.

maestrowork said:

But when you find yourself tinkering with sentence here and sentence there, or punctuation or trying out different word choices, then maybe you're done with it.

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This doesn't apply to me. Those are the FIRST things that I notice, as soon as i read my very first draft.
For the bigger issues i need betas.

I don't think tehre is an easy answer. I stop editing, or rather rewriting and revising, when the changes make the story different, but not significantly better. There is a danger of reaching the point where all you're doing is stirring mud, and over editing is every bit as bad, and sometimes much worse, than under editing.

As Robert J. Sawyer puts it, Don't tinker endlessly with your story. You can spend forever modifying, revising, and polishing. There's an old saying that stories are never finished, only abandoned — learn to abandon yours.

There's an old saying that stories are never finished, only abandoned — learn to abandon yours.

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I like this. I might need to start repeating it to myself like a mantra.

kaitie said:

That is EXACTLY what I'm worried about. I'm afraid that I'm changing things that have no bearing on the story or that might actually take away value instead of improving it.

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I use as a rule of thumb that the first version usually appears to be the best after all. Nothing beats instinct.