Fantasy tropes you like averting

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glutton

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No, not really. Arrows move a lot faster than you think.

I was thinking more of the borderline to moderately superhuman characters that pop up a lot in my fantasy, not necessarily "realistic" humans per say.

Catching a crossbow bolt fired at point-blank range from a crossbow hidden behind a cloak so that it can't even be seen FTW.
 

glutton

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Also, the idea of "foreseeing" where an arrow will land in the moment after it's been fired but before it lands seems a bit odd/hinting at superhuman reaction time or at least thought process speed in its own right.
 

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I was thinking more of the borderline to moderately superhuman characters that pop up a lot in my fantasy, not necessarily "realistic" humans per say.
Oh, well, in that case, please carry on.

I'm just sick of all these novels and movies and TV shows and whatnot wherein presumably human characters will do impossible things, such as catching arrows or, even more outrageous, sword blows.
 
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Oh, well, in that case, please carry on.

I'm just sick of all these novels and movies and TV shows and whatnot wherein presumably human characters will do impossible things, such as catching arrows or, even more outrageous, sword blows.



Well, most people don't know whether it's impossible or not, so Hollywood and Rule of Cool authors get away with it pretty easily. You wouldn't believe some of the arguments I've had trying to convinvce people that sort of thing was bullshit.
 

efreysson

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Also, the idea of "foreseeing" where an arrow will land in the moment after it's been fired but before it lands seems a bit odd/hinting at superhuman reaction time or at least thought process speed in its own right.

Yes, the immortals have that too. They're kind of badass. :)
 

SPMiller

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Even then, being able to close one's hand around the shaft requires that the edges of the arrowhead (if present) pass through the catcher's hands, tearing through the flesh and therefore making it impossible to stop the arrow except, perhaps, in the case that the catcher can squeeze the shaft between the now-exposed metacarpals and phalanges, a task made impossible due to the severed tendons. A bloody and painful trick, in any case.

I just use magic. Or clearly superhuman characters who are above such mundane physical concerns.

Real humans can't do it, period.
 
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glutton

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If you're really fast, you could theoretically time it to close your hand around the shaft behind the head. Or, just smack the arrow off course with your sword/other non-fleshy weapon instead.
 

SPMiller

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If you're really fast, you could theoretically time it to close your hand around the shaft behind the head. Or, just smack the arrow off course with your sword/other non-fleshy weapon instead.
No, you can't be fast enough. At least, a realistic human can't. It's impossible. No matter how badass a character is.

Deflecting the arrow is possible, however, if you know exactly where the arrow's going to be. Premonition would be handy in such a case.
 

glutton

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At least, a realistic human can't.

See 8 posts above. :) It's also not as big a stretch as some may think... see youtube videos of people catching arrows, albeit in controlled circumstances and not real combat, but I did specify "borderline or slightly more superhuman".
 

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See 8 posts above. :) It's also not as big a stretch as some may think... see youtube videos of people catching arrows, albeit in controlled circumstances and not real combat, but I did specify "borderline or slightly more superhuman".
No, it's actually a bigger stretch than people think. They take off the arrowhead, they use less pull, they don't aim at the person, they get to retry unlimited times, they use a staged situation, and they usually have some hint about release time. Any video purporting to show a "caught" arrow is an elaborate sham. I know it's cool, but it isn't realistic.
 
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See 8 posts above. :) It's also not as big a stretch as some may think... see youtube videos of people catching arrows, albeit in controlled circumstances and not real combat, but I did specify "borderline or slightly more superhuman".


Actually, see the Mythbusters episode where they prove it's impossible for a human to catch an arrow or sword-swing. Now, if you've given your characters superhuman reflexes, all bets are off.
 

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Actually, see the Mythbusters episode where they prove it's impossible for a human to catch an arrow or sword-swing. Now, if you've given your characters superhuman reflexes, all bets are off.

When I see people catching swords in anime, it's usually because they're not human at all, or because they're humans with a Charles Atlas Superpower.
 

Capital

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This isn't SYW, though. People shouldn't have to put up with unsolicited criticism of their writing when they're just casually chatting about stuff. Lord knows I'm not presenting my story here in its best light (for example, my main character does not literally say "Yay! Superpowers!" It was a bit of a joke).

There was absolutely no need for that kind of rudeness on his part. If it was SYW, fine. But not when we're just chatting.

EDIT: Seriously, Z, that wasn't cool. Chill out a little bit.

While agreed with Zachariah's critical assessment of OP, agreed with this as well. Also the thread got derailed from the start with comments (my own included) listing and discussing avoided tropes, not sub/a/in-verting.
 

glutton

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Actually, see the Mythbusters episode where they prove it's impossible for a human to catch an arrow or sword-swing. Now, if you've given your characters superhuman reflexes, all bets are off.

Umm... http://mythbustersresults.com/episode-109-return-of-the-ninja

The first attempt was flawed because the mechanical arm couldn't "anticipate" the movement of the arrow like a human might. In the return test of that myth, the guy they got could catch the arrows when he knew which direction they were coming from, just not when they came from multiple directions, and they cheated by using the latter point to continue saying the myth was "busted". Sure it couldn't be done consistently in real combat, but I'm sure there's an off chance someone could luck out and manage to catch the arrow successfully even then?

Doing something on a one-time fluke and doing it consistently are two different things... I'd concede the people who do it consistently in my stories are at least slightly superhuman, but they're probably more superhuman for the amount of damage they can take than that.

But I'd thought my comment about defying prophecies would be more interesting than whether or not someone could catch an arrow? Other examples of what I mean would be: the villain learns the hero is destined to kill him, and when he captures the hero, just kills him right away before doing anything else; a guy finds out he will father the destroyer of his people, and castrates himself to prevent it; somebody is told they will die under a specific famous tree, then chops the tree down and casts it to the bottom of the ocean. As someone who doesn't like the notion of fate being set in stone, I'd like to see more characters in fantasy take such a "hard" stand against an undesirable prophecy... and preferably succeed.
 
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I'm sorry, nice try. But shoot, I can catch arrows, too. You use flu-flu fletching and fire at about 100mph with an underpowered bow, and catch at about 80mph. In fact, your link even lists the speed of the tennis balls as 85mph. That's nothing. A war arrow is going at about 250fps to 300fps from a decent bow. That's about twice as fast as the arrows used on mythbusters. There's also tricks about deflecting first and such, but I won't get into that.

You can make the argument that someone would get lucky, which is highy suspect even if you don't consider that in actual combat, arrows come in volleys, not singles, but people generally look down on lucky coincidences in books. Enough about that.


Prophecies:

I'd rather see less of the sort of prophecies that are so specific as to allow them such easy outs. Very few real prophecies were set up like that. In fact, I can't think of any.

Also, such easy solutions are boring. There's no tension if you can just cut down the tree. Now, castrating yourself would make a great internal conflict. I'd love to see that in a book. :)

As an example of averted prophecy, GRRM has a prophecy that doesn't come to pass. I won't specify to avoid spoilers.
 

glutton

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Very few real prophecies were set up like that. In fact, I can't think of any.

I've seen plenty that are pretty specific in fantasy fiction, though.

With regard to the tree, maybe the guy still dies... but just not under that tree. A small victory nonetheless?
 
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I've seen plenty that are pretty specific in fantasy fiction, though.

With regard to the tree, maybe the guy still dies... but just not under that tree. A small victory nonetheless?


Yes. There are many such in fantasy fiction. I would enjoy seeing less.


Yes, a small victory. Everybody dies eventually, after all.
 

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My central premise has a wizard renouncing magic. That has got to be at least a twist of a trope.

There was indeed a prophecy made at his birth, but it just said he would be both the doom and salvation of his country and the prophet ordered the only people present to keep their mouths shut. So the MC never even finds out about it. There is a very brief epilogue where the old witch who made the prophecy decides to drink herself stupid because she's just starting to understand what it meant. Those are the only two mentions of it. I actually used the prophecy scene more as a way of showing some of the social tensions that had developed between the wizarding hierarchy and the general population. That is possibly a subverted trope too, I don't know. Wizards have become something like the pre-Reformation Catholic Church in my book: highly institutionalized, hierarchical, and roundly resented.

And the MC isn't a farm boy, although fairly close, being the son of a herbalist. His one distinguishing power is not that big a deal and plays no role whatsoever in his ultimate victory, which is won primarily by moral courage and humility, of all things.

Is that enough subverted tropes to make you happy?
 

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Last night in a moment of weakness I wanted to use the "Luke I Am Your Father" trope in my current WIP. I was going to have it so the evil dad was looking for the good guy, and the good guy MC was looking for the bad guy, but the dad didn't know good guy was his son, and MC didn't know bad guy was his dad...when they met in person they would figure it all out. But my writing buddy convinced me it was too much of cliche bomb and talked me away from the edge :)
 
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