Getting Published

caseyquinn · Nov 10, 2009

So many people write for themselves. Many people write for others. This thread is for those who want to have their writing read by others.

What is stopping you from sending out your work? There are tons and tons of ezines and print publications out there looking for work to get published. Some pay, some don't. Some have higher readership than others, better looking, but all of them result in an increase readership of your work.

1. So, how often do you submit your poetry?
2. What is stopping you from submitting out more?
3. Do you have goals when it comes to getting published? How many a year? A month?
4. Would you take part in a weekly writing prompt and send out the result?

One of the things I would like to do during my three months is try to get more people sending out work. We have a TON of great poems here on AW and they need to get off of this board and published somewhere to start building all of the poets here some credits. So what is holding you back?

Ambrosia · Nov 10, 2009

caseyquinn said:
...
What is stopping you from sending out your work?
...

Absolute, gut-wrenching, mind-numbing fear. I am trying to get over it. I want to submit. But, I don't know how to get over the panic.

Suggestions appreciated.

Love the thread idea, btw, Casey.

Bluestone · Nov 10, 2009

How do you know if your poems are ready for public exposure?

JRH · Nov 10, 2009

Casey,

It's good in theory, and may work well for most who post here, or those with modest ambitions, but I am a traditional poet, writing in rythem and rhyme on traditional themes, (and most of them longer poems at that), and most of them dealing with serious subjects such a the concept that "Man created God", "The story and legacy of Charles Darwin, the rise and fall of "Atlantis", etc.

In short, I want very much to be considered along with the "greats" of the past, and very few if any publishers are open to such.

I have tried, conscientiously, to submit my poems, and have sent out hundreds to dozens of markets over the years and have only had 17 published in almost 50 years. Some people, like me, are simply NOT going to find a market out there.

Moreover, if one is actually hoping to impress book publishers, it takes more than acceptances in 'Minor" markets, no matter how many of them you might get. they demand credits from "Major" markets like "The New Yorker," "Atlantic Monthly", "Poetry" "Harpers" or the top collegiate Jounals, whose reader base and circulation is sufficiently
large to indicate there many be a viable audiance out there for any collection of Poetry.

I now have two chapbooks published, both by ShadowPoetryInc a POD (Vanity) publisher at my own expense, and they have no distribution beyond their bookstore or my selling of them. They can't be found in brick or mortar bookstores or in libraries, and have never, (and will never), be reviewed by anyone of importance in the industry.

I have been sending at least three 65 page collections of my Poetry, each year for the last 5 years or so to various contests including the T.S. Eliot prize, The Richard Wilbur Award and a variety of those sponsored by PSA, all without any success, (presumably for the reasons stated above).

I think you're right to encourage people to submit but I think it's dangerous to encourage them to set their expectations too high. Acceptance by magazines is one thing, Publication by a "major" Publishing House is something else again, and it's no surprise that PODs are considered "Vanity" Press, because, for the most part, that's all they're good for.

Just something to think about.

Jim Hoye, (JRH)

caseyquinn · Nov 10, 2009

Ambrosia: What is the fear? Rejection or having your work out in the public?

BlueStone: Good Question. Some people hold on to their poems believing them never ready to be in front of people, others rush them out too quickly. There is a balance and IMO i think it just takes time as a writer to know when a poem is done. Sure, some people can always make suggestions and crits and tweaks but if you are happy with it and think it ready to go, send it out. If you get a rejection by a few different places, then you know maybe you need a little more work. I think tastes are so wide open in poetry, send it a few places once you have done what you can to the poem to get it as close to done as you think it can be. Let the responses sort of drive your revisions. Just my take on it.

Hey JRH, sounds like you have had a rough go at it for a while. I hear you, poetry is a tough road to publication but I think it very much possible going the traditional route not vanity. And I would disagree that small magazines, etc are not of value - here is why. Most poetry is not published by large houses, in fact very very few are. The 90% of poetry published year in and year out are by small, mid sized and micro publishers of chapbooks and collections. To win them over you need to show two things:

1. you have a following
2. you are willing to market and promote your own work

if you do those two things you will find a traditional publisher. If you do readings, send out work on a normal basis, do poetry book reviews and get your name out there, build up publishing credits even with small places, they all add up to showing you as a marketable writer. It shows a commitment to your trade and for publisher it shows you might have a following which = sales.

Don't get me wrong getting published and making money even to buy a coffee are too different beasts. My first chapbook made me enough money to go out to dinner one night and to buy a ton of copies of the book to send out for reviews, interviews,etc. The key is that it paved a road to some publicity now for the second book coming out. Each book gaining momentum. This is the same thing with publishing with small magazines print or online. The more your name is out there, the more name reconigtion people pick up on, the more likely you are to gain a publisher. Again, just my two cents.

If you don't try and keep your poems on a forum and never sent out, you will never even have a chance. Would rather try and fail then be discouraged by how hard the road is and never try at all -

skelly · Nov 10, 2009

JRH said:
Casey,

It's good in theory, and may work well for most who post here, or those with modest ambitions, but I am a traditional poet, writing in rythem and rhyme on traditional themes, (and most of them longer poems at that) and want very much to be considered along with the "greats" of the past, and very few if any publishers are open to such.

I have tried, conscientiously, to submit my poems, and have sent out hundreds to dozens of markets over the years and have only had 17 published in almost 50 years. Some people, like me, are simply NOT going to find a market out there.

Moreover, if one is actually hoping to impress book publishers, it takes more than acceptances in 'Minor" markets, no matter how many of them you might get. they demand credits from "Major" markets like "The New Yorker," "Atlantic Monthly", "Poetry" "Harpers" or the top collegiate Jounals, whose reader base and circulation is sufficiently
large to indicate there many be a viable audiance out there for any collection of Poetry.

I now have two chapbooks published, both by ShadowPoetryInc a POD (Vanity) publisher at my own expense, and they have no distribution beyond their bookstore or my selling of them. They can't be found in brick or mortar bookstores or in libraries, and have never, (and will never), be reviewed by anyone of importance in the industry.

I have been sending at least three 65 page collections of my Poetry, each year for the last 5 years or so to various contests including the T.S. Eliot prize, The Richard Wilbur Award and a variety of those sponsored by PSA, all without any success, (presumably for the reasons stated above).

I think you're right to encourage people to submit but I think it's dangerous to encourage them to set their expectations too high. Acceptance by magazines is one thing, Publication by a "major" Publishing House is something else again, and it's no surprise that PODs are considered "Vanity" Press, because, for the most part, that's all they're good for.

Just something to think about.

Jim Hoye, (JRH)

So just shoot yourself and get it over with.

:rolleyes

I've been publishing my science fiction poetry in various SF and speculative poetry magazines for over 20 years and and I don't know if it gets any more obscure than that. I've enjoyed the experience and until recently enjoyed being associated with that small, eclectic community of poets. I think there is something very affirming about having a poem accepted and published even if it is only in a small or "niche" market. Of course, if you write poetry at the level Jim does then I suppose you don't need that kind of affirmation.

We hacks are spared that horrible, aching hell.

ETA------> a rep from Casey causes me to understand that ONCE AGAIN I have forgotten that sarcasm does not work in this medium. I was not advising Jim to "shoot himself," although I nearly supported that position in another discussion we had in the Speculative Poetry thread. I was making that comment to all of the poets who, after having read Jim's post, might tumble into despair.

And of course, I don't want them to shoot themselves either. I don't want ANYBODY to shoot themselves or anybody else for that matter.

Nobody shoots anything or anybody.

No shooting.

None.

Colin Fiat · Nov 10, 2009

caseyquinn said:
So many people write for themselves. Many people write for others. This thread is for those who want to have their writing read by others.

I write for others. Many poems are either scrapped or not even started beyond the idea stage if I do not think anyone except myself will enjoy it.

While it is true that I've written some poetry which was pure self indulgence, that which was worthy of sharing was shared. An example is my acrostic poem, 'Antiques' which has no real purpose other than being over the top and something to smile about. Mine through pride as I was to accomplish it and other's through what ever emotion they find to make them smile.

And having a preference to share, write for the enjoyment of others, I've put together a book of poems free for download from lulu or about $12 if you really think a paper version is worth it.

Colin Fiat.

Priene · Nov 10, 2009

caseyquinn said:
What is stopping you from sending out your work?

You have the knack of getting to the heart of things.

My submission record is pathetic and my publication record next-to-nonexistent. I have some reasons for this, but I'm out of excuses. I conceived an idea, long ago, of how my poems should sound, and measuring the ones I wrote against how I'd like to have written was a sobering experience. I didn't need an editor how far I was falling short, so submission seemed pointless.

Now I'm much closer to that voice, and the lack of publication record is getting embarrassing. I thought the problem was fear of rejection, but I've been touting my novel around and as it turns out, rejection's not a problem at all. Like I say, I'm out of excuses.

caseyquinn said:
2. What is stopping you from submitting out more?
3. Do you have goals when it comes to getting published? How many a year? A month?

I don't have a submission strategy. The market's wide, and I haven't taken the time to work out where to plunge in. It's just procrastination and a dislike for doing what needs to be done.

caseyquinn said:
4. Would you take part in a weekly writing prompt and send out the result?

Writing prompts aren't the problem, and I couldn't write a poem in a week if I tried.

KTC · Nov 10, 2009

Sounds like a good initiative, Case...I won't answer the first three questions, because I am constantly submitting my work. As for question four...I'd love to do the weekly prompt and try submitting it. Sounds like a great plan.

Norman D Gutter · Nov 10, 2009

caseyquinn said:
1. So, how often do you submit your poetry?

Very rarely. I don't think I've submitted any poems since 2006, one of which was published in 2007. I have some ready to submit, and I've been thinking of doing so this month.

2. What is stopping you from submitting out more?

Mainly the time: time to research markets; time to search trhough my completed poems and collate them with a market; time to assemble and send. For a long time the expense of copying and mailing was also a detriment, but with the proliferation of on-line submittals that hurdle is going away.

3. Do you have goals when it comes to getting published? How many a year? A month?

Obviously none, else I'd have been doing it.

4. Would you take part in a weekly writing prompt and send out the result?

No, I don't think I would. I have little enough time as it is to work on the umpteen writing projects I'm currently involved in to take on anything else.

One of the things I would like to do during my three months is try to get more people sending out work. We have a TON of great poems here on AW and they need to get off of this board and published somewhere to start building all of the poets here some credits. So what is holding you back?

I'll take this as a kick in the shins (or some other anotomical part) and send some in this month, to at least three markets.

Good questions, CQ.
NDG

Ambrosia · Nov 10, 2009

caseyquinn said:
Ambrosia: What is the fear? Rejection or having your work out in the public?

I believe it is a combination of things. Rejection plays a part. I have never submitted anything before. I don't know how to do it, and don't want to do it wrong. Sounds silly typing it out, but there it is.

poetinahat · Nov 10, 2009

Great thread, Casey - great feedback so far. (Scott, I get the sarcasm; never even reached for the holster!)

caseyquinn said:
1. So, how often do you submit your poetry?

Only once, ever, and that was when it was asked for. Have NEVER submitted anything cold for publication.

caseyquinn said:
2. What is stopping you from submitting out more?

Fear of rejection, and lack of production. I haven't come up with much new in a long time.

caseyquinn said:
3. Do you have goals when it comes to getting published? How many a year? A month?

No. I just would like to publish, and love my poems.

caseyquinn said:
4. Would you take part in a weekly writing prompt and send out the result?

Not sure; I'm rarely happy with the poems I write to prompts. Ideas for me tend to be more organic.

One of the things I would like to do during my three months is try to get more people sending out work. We have a TON of great poems here on AW and they need to get off of this board and published somewhere to start building all of the poets here some credits. So what is holding you back?

Dang. You should put this on a flag and plant it on top of the forum.

Feiss · Nov 10, 2009

A lack of confidence, a table spoon full of Fear-O-Rejection, and a dash of self-loathing just about sums it up.

Dichroic · Nov 10, 2009

Nothing except the actual work factor. (In fact, my own PoLaur challenge was similar, though I was less specific about it.) I've been trying to be better about submitting and have thus had six poems accepted so far this year. The next one is coming out November 15, in a totally nontradition venue. I'll post something here when it's up.

caseyquinn · Nov 11, 2009

IMO the best way to get over fear of rejection is to remember this, when you post a poem here you will get some people who LOVE it and some people who HATE it. Yet, you keep posting here. Why? Because you understand that not all people like the same poem. Editors are no different. Each person has a taste, your poem may or may not meet the editors taste. If it doesn't send it somewhere else, you will find an editor that lines up with your style/voice. Just need to be religous in sending out work, finding publications that are open to your style and then be sure to keep some work in the queue of those publications. Find new avenues over time. Don't let a rejection stop you or hurt your confidence. All a rejection means is that the one specific editor didn't like your poem, who cares? There are hundreds and hundreds of editors out there and another will like your poem. You just need to keep sending to find them.

I think starting this weekend i will try to post a prompt and some suggested markets - and try to do a new one each weekend. I hope some of you take me up on it, write a poem that week and send it out. If you get rejected, who cares. If you get published, G you! if you don't try at all... well, no execuses.

AnonymousWriter · Nov 11, 2009

I know Duotrope's Digest is a good place to find markets, but I'm not sure of where else you can find them. Any suggestions?

JRH · Nov 11, 2009

The Wisconsin Fellowship of Poets Website, http://www.wfop.org/markets.html is the newest one I've found but another is the Poetry Arts index at: http://www.poetryinarts.org/resources/contests/categories/poetry.html as well as the standby, " Writers Digest Poets Market which comes out yearly, as well as Green Tower Press's "Poetry Manuscript Competitions at: http://catpages.nwmissouri.edu/m/tlr/poetrycontests.html for book length manuscripts.

And that just scratches the surface as there are many writers groups, including AW that offer full or partial listings from time to time.

Often such lists are not updated frequently so you may often find several entries are now defunct, or their information is out of date, but that's simply the transitory nature of the business.

Hope this helps.

JRH

AnonymousWriter · Nov 11, 2009

Thanks, JRH. Very helpful.

finnisempty · Nov 11, 2009

1. So, how often do you submit your poetry? I haven't attempted to submit a poem in years. I'm giving submission some serious thought just because I need the exposure now.

2. What is stopping you from submitting out more? I'm obsess with perfection and I go through series of re-edits and rewrites. I never really finish anything unfortunately. Plus I'm apprehensive and self-doubts the feedbacks have been neutral. I doubt I'd be well received.

3. Do you have goals when it comes to getting published? How many a year? A month? I don't have any current goals at the moment.

4. Would you take part in a weekly writing prompt and send out the result? No... :poke:

ajc · Nov 11, 2009

I'm not going to bother with 1 & 2 as I'm always submitting.

3. Do you have goals when it comes to getting published? How many a year? A month? I have no goals, but it seems to average out every month to about the same (maybe I have secret goals that I'm hiding from myself). I have a weird thing where I try to get into the journals that reject me and keep sending them stuff until they finally take something (kinda like liking the guy that won't give ya the time of day).

4. Would you take part in a weekly writing prompt and send out the result? I would try.

TooJoyful00 · Nov 14, 2009

Feiss said:
A lack of confidence, a table spoon full of Fear-O-Rejection, and a dash of self-loathing just about sums it up.

In life there are no guarantees, however if you give it your all, then you will succeed no matter what the outcome will be. As for rejection, we will all experience it in life. No one is perfect, so it's o.k to take on rejection.
Your writings are your work and your accomplishments, don't allow other's negativity to limit you. Get your work out there and share it with the world. Those that like it, will applaud you and those that don't....just won't.

Blessings

Seams · Nov 17, 2009

its strange, but I believe it's good to have that fear of rejection, because if you get to complacent with your writing abilities, well you become stagnant, don't believe you can or need to improve.

I think i've submitted 5 pieces ( i know hardly seems like a 'wisdom of words' here, but for me i believe its because i haven't yet attained the level i believe is required (i'm unsure if that's insecurity or just my drive to improve)

poems are so personal, sometimes raw with emotions, they hold a bit of you, so maybe that is part of my hesitation too, a fear to let go of those words, and look at them as what they are, just words collected.

I ramble

btw, sorry about that

Seams

Seams · Nov 17, 2009

fear is hard to define. it has many levels and to assume all fears are equally undefeatable is where you lose.

i've seen too many submitting before they themselves have figured out the full scope of writing and in those piled rejections returned, they find defeat well enough and in more ways than simple hesitation.

myself, i don't want to present my writing to a publisher, unless it has reach a certain standard. I know when it gets there for me, when it does, well then I will submit. But throwing piece after piece in hopes that one makes it, hurts a writer more than helps, because you learn nothing I believe.

your thoughts differ on this subject in some ways i'm sure. I do agree that eventually you have to conquer those fears, but never before you are well enough equipped to do so.

Ambrosia · Nov 17, 2009

Being one of the people in the thread who stated fear as a prime reason of not submitting, if I waited until my work was 'good' and met some high internal standard I would never submit. Because in my eyes I can't see it is good. I only see it through the responses I get from others. I am learning to see my work better, as I have a couple poet friends who are working with me on it, but it is a difficult hurdle to jump.

On a positive note, taking Casey's push to work toward getting published, I talked to someone I know who started publishing a magazine. In this magazine she also publishes some poetry related to the theme of her magazine, which changes from issue to issue. She has started another publication which publishes additional poetry pieces as well. I sent her 3 sample poems to find out if she liked my style of poetry, before going to the effort to try to create a poem to match her theme.

She likes it!

She said to definitely submit when I have something ready. I am on top of the world right now.

Seams · Nov 17, 2009

well yes of course, we all need a push. If I didn't believe I could improve with the help of others, I wouldn't be on a site such as this. Fear is good, it gives you something to overcome, a challenge to attain, was what I was going for. I suppose if a person lets fear best them always, will then the roots to that fear probably lie elsewhere.

I'll probably be never as good as I want, there is always ways to improve, and I have submitted with a variety of success.

This is an interesting topic, and I've enjoyed the thoughts by all parties.

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