Where do you kidlit writers draw the line on writing bad behavior?

Kitty Pryde · Nov 4, 2009

Like the title of the post says. Where do you draw the line on naughty/bad/dangerous behavior in your writing? Specifically bad behavior that the character gets away with, specifically in middle grade stuff. To write a decent MG novel, your characters usually have to do a fair amount of rule-breaking--staying out too late, going places they aren't supposed to go, wielding magical swords, losing their younger siblings, etc.

In the story I'm working on now, the MC leaves town without telling his mom, who is very laid back. He gets into a bit of trouble and scares himself by doing so, so minor consequences. He gets rides with strangers in an emergency situation, and there are no negative consequences. I'm kind of questioning how okay this is. I had another scene where a trusted adult told some kids, "Don't tell any of the grownups that..." but I had an extreme attack of conscience and changed it to "Don't tell anyone that...because I want to tell them myself in a few days."

In some books (like Horrid Henry or Wimpy Kid for instance), the kid gleefully does bad stuff but it's made clear that the kid is a terrible role model. Those books are okay, but they aren't for everybody. My MIL teaches very troubled foster kids, and she agreed that she can't teach with books like that, because they're too confusing for a kid already struggling with concepts of right and wrong. But I'm derailing my own thread, so I'll stop

Anyways: kidlit writers, how do you choose where to draw the line?

MsJudy · Nov 4, 2009

1) Stay true to the character.

2) Stay true to the story you're trying to tell.

Thinking of some of the books I've read lately--JOEY PIGZA SWALLOWS THE KEY, ALABAMA MOON, TANGERINE--I'm not sure there is a line you can't cross, except the sexual one. But those books maybe target a different audience than the one you're trying to reach?

Definitely the younger the reader, the less you can push the limits.

But if it feels like "this is what that character would do, even though it's wrong," then I think you lose the power of your story by backing away from it.

Smish · Nov 4, 2009

It's a tricky thing, I think. For the most part, in my own writing I feel bad behavior (disobedience, being mean, etc) is fine, so long as it works in the story. The thing that becomes troublesome for me is how to deal with dangerous behavior. If something is really dangerous, I tend to stay away from it. But some authors don't.

Judy mentioned Joey Pigza Swallowed the Key, by Jack Gantos. Joey does lots of really dangerous things, and sometimes hurts himself and others doing these things. These things definitely work with the novel, though -- Joey has ADD, and without medication, he loses control. But the things he does... yikes. I could never write it. But I'm glad Gantos did.

So, I think anything can be done, if it works in the context of your story. You just have to figure out what your comfort level is.

Smish

MsJudy · Nov 4, 2009

This topic also reminds me of Gail Carson Levine's advice--Make your characters suffer.

Fiction needs to be larger than life, even when it's supposed to be realistic. Joey Pigza is WAY over the top compared to most ADHD kids I've known...but it makes for a great story that way.

The worse the behavior, the greater the potential for suffering, learning, growth...all the things that make fiction powerful. In my experience, kids are for the most part able to sort out what is fiction from what is something they should actually imitate, just like they can understand that chickens don't really talk even if they do in stories.

Gary Soto has a great book for talking about that--TOO MANY TAMALES. The MC is playing with her mother's ring, and loses it. She thinks it was baked into the tamales, so she and her cousins eat them all. Bleah... When I read it with my class, I ask them, "Was that the right thing to do? Can you think of a better way to solve that problem?" And they never have any problems coming up with better, safer solutions, like telling your mom the truth so she can help you find the ring.

I think you can push the limits of what a kid could or should really do, and trust that most kids will be able to figure out: Don't try this at home.

MJWare · Nov 5, 2009

One more thing to remember. Publishers usually are more complacent than school librarians. Thus the dreaded "Banned Books" list.

So you can get away with stuff that will hurt you sales. Fortunately, you can usually figure out what will get your book banned (cursing, sensuality, overt violence, etc). That's where I try to draw the line.

Bur lke Judscot say. You have to stay true! Why else even write.

Angela_785 · Nov 5, 2009

I think the important thing is to show the consequence of that behavior. I'm not talking about preaching, but just a reflection of the consequences. People not wanting to be around the person, people not trusting them, attracting the wrong sorts of people, being held back in some way because of the behavior, etc. There doesn't always have to be an obvious handslap or concrete consequence (Ie they can get away with it), but the reader needs to see why that behavior is wrong, and undersirable to others. That bad behavior has a price, either now or down the road.

MsJudy · Nov 5, 2009

Angela_785 said:
I think the important thing is to show the consequence of that behavior. I'm not talking about preaching, but just a reflection of the consequences. People not wanting to be around the person, people not trusting them, attracting the wrong sorts of people, being held back in some way because of the behavior, etc. There doesn't always have to be an obvious handslap or concrete consequence (Ie they can get away with it), but the reader needs to see why that behavior is wrong, and undersirable to others. That bad behavior has a price, either now or down the road.

yes, and those consequences are usually what drives the story forward. So holding back from the bad behavior too much deprives your story of the chance to really explore those consequences.

Joey Pigza is a great example of that. I mean, he finally gets help only after he really hurts someone else. And that is so often the way it happens in real life. I had an autistic student who struggled in class, but I was told he wouldn't get any assistance in my room unless he was a threat to himself or others. I almost wanted to coach him into throwing more fits... I didn't, of course. But if he were my character, instead of my student, I sure would...

fringle · Nov 6, 2009

I don't have a problem with kids misbehaving in books. Kids misbehave IRL too. I agree that writing appropriate consequences to their actions is the key to making bad behavior acceptable in the eyes of the adults who purchase the books.

Stijn Hommes · Nov 6, 2009

Kitty Pryde said:
In the story I'm working on now, the MC leaves town without telling his mom, who is very laid back. He gets into a bit of trouble and scares himself by doing so, so minor consequences. He gets rides with strangers in an emergency situation, and there are no negative consequences. I'm kind of questioning how okay this is. I had another scene where a trusted adult told some kids, "Don't tell any of the grownups that..." but I had an extreme attack of conscience and changed it to "Don't tell anyone that...because I want to tell them myself in a few days."

In some books (like Horrid Henry or Wimpy Kid for instance), the kid gleefully does bad stuff but it's made clear that the kid is a terrible role model. Those books are okay, but they aren't for everybody. My MIL teaches very troubled foster kids, and she agreed that she can't teach with books like that, because they're too confusing for a kid already struggling with concepts of right and wrong. But I'm derailing my own thread, so I'll stop

Anyways: kidlit writers, how do you choose where to draw the line?

If you are trying to reach troubled kids that have trouble keeping right from wrong, then it's probably a good thing to be very clear what behavior is wrong. For other kids, stop worrying. They know the difference between right and wrong and the difference between reality and fiction is there as a backup.

"He gets rides with strangers in an emergency situation, and there are no negative consequences. I'm kind of questioning how okay this is."

I can get really worked up about things like this. There shouldn't be any consequences here, because it's not bad behavior. The irrational fear of abduction has reached a point where strangers leave lost kids along the side of the road for fear of being accused of abduction. (in at least one instance the lack of help at very sad consequences indeed). If the character was suffering a true emergency, the regular rules are off. Of course, they could use some sense and not travel with that creepy guy and wait for another car, but if there's one lesson you should teach a kid, it is that not all adults are evil monsters out to get them. (Not sure if Lenore Skenazy agrees with me on that, but that's my opinion)

KTC · Nov 6, 2009

I honestly have to say that I use Roald Dahl as a measuring stick against anything when I'm writing kid lit.

I think that I always season the bad with a healthy dose of consequences...to make a kid reader realize that though it sounded like a good idea at the time you won't want to do it because this will happen if you do.

In the one I finished this spring, four kids break into a house. Granted, it's to get to the bottom of the life of the child-like adult living inside...to crack the nut and figure him out. They pay for their curiosity. Lessons are learned, etc, etc, etc.

Toothpaste · Nov 6, 2009

When I think about the things Alex and Timothy have done without parental permission . . . look it depends on the type of book you're writing. If it is more fantastical, more about a rollicking adventure, don't worry about it. If you're writing slice of life, you may wish to pay more attention to it. I've had my main characters fight others with swords, kill someone with a bookshelf, travel on trains that don't respect the laws of time, accept rides from eccentric billionaires in their helicopters (and private planes), accept rides from magnanimous Captains of tall ships, gamble, become pirates, be almost run down by taxi cabs over and over again, jump into the sewer, fight ninjas, be shot at . . .

And all this makes perfect sense within the context of the stories.

Like Jud said, stay true to your characters and story, and they shall not lead you astray.

(I will say the whole parent thing can be a tricky issue, hence so many orphans - in "Alex" there weren't any to worry about, and in "Timothy" they became central to the plot - you can't just have an easy going parent and that's it, you need to make sure the readers accept that this character's parent wouldn't have an issue with adventuring. Don't spoil the story by being lazy with the whole guardian issue. That's one of the hardest issues to contend with in MG, and worth the extra effort to solve.)

CaroGirl · Nov 6, 2009

In my MG novel, the characters do a lot of pranking. The seriousness of the pranks escalate and culminate in a Bad Event, which illustrates the consequence of engaging in competitive pranking.

Bad behaviour is par for the course in MG. Kids, by their very nature, are developing and learning, so mistakes are inevitable. Bad behaviour is the source for humour and life lessons in almost all great kid lit.

Kitty Pryde · Nov 6, 2009

Everyone's responses have been really helpful. I picked up Joey Pigza Swallows The Key. It's a great book--way more intense than I expected. Joey's thing is constant misbehavior, striving to behave, and feeling bad for being 'messed up' and badly behaved. It's super clear that even though he's having fun, he's also screwing up big time and feeling bad. That's not quite the sort of thing I'm struggling with.

It's closest to what Toothpaste said. I guess I will pay close attention to whether it works in context of the world of the story. It's an alternative version of California in this case, full of fantasy critters and also a bit more gentle/old-fashioned than our world. The MC has a pretty wide area in which he's free to roam, but stepping outside of those boundaries without permission does get him into trouble (not like, grounded and no tv trouble, like OMG bad things are happening to him trouble).

On the other hand, some of his dodgy behaviors totally work out. I will have to examine it in the overall context of the story. Thanks everybody! Any more thoughts are surely welcome!

MsJudy · Nov 6, 2009

The more fantastical the setting, the more you can go completely beyond what is acceptable. So it sounds like you've got plenty of room to be terrible!

Plus, misbehaving is so much more fun to read about. Where would we be without Ramona the Pest, for example?

zeppelin123 · Nov 12, 2009

I struggled with this a bit in my latest project that I'm working with a crit partner on now. The MC has FASD (fetal alcohol spectrum disorder) and I wanted to show her getting into difficult situations without portraying anything outwardly objectionable or dangerous since it's upper-MG. In one scene, she runs away from her school after being taunted by classmates and ends up lost downtown in the winter without appropriate outdoor clothing. Some students find her and help her call her parents. I made it clear (by the responses of the adults) that this was dangerous behavior.

I had her engage in some shouting matches and door slamming in the story, but stayed away from any outwardly aggressive behavior (e.g. throwing things) due to the target audience. I wanted to show her lack of impulse control without being inappropriate for my target age group.

Stijn Hommes · Nov 13, 2009

zeppelin123 said:
I had her engage in some shouting matches and door slamming in the story, but stayed away from any outwardly aggressive behavior (e.g. throwing things) due to the target audience. I wanted to show her lack of impulse control without being inappropriate for my target age group.

What is inappropriate for your target audience is something each person would have a different opinion on. For example: in your book, I'd have no problem showing the MC throwing stuff around when she's angry. That sort of aggressive behavior would only be problematic (for me) if she was throwing things AT other people.

Where do you kidlit writers draw the line on writing bad behavior?

Kitty Pryde

i luv you giant bear statue

MsJudy

Smish

Reads more than she writes.

MsJudy

MJWare

Kidlit gang, Junior member.

Angela_785

MsJudy

fringle

always abroad

Stijn Hommes

Know what you write...

KTC

Stand in the Place Where You Live

Toothpaste

THE RECKLESS RESCUE is out now!

CaroGirl

Living the dream

Kitty Pryde

i luv you giant bear statue

MsJudy

zeppelin123

Stijn Hommes

Know what you write...