Christian SF

ToddWBush · Nov 5, 2009

I have no experience with Christian SF. Don't know who are the main authors, how well it sells, or even if there is a market for Christian SF. Maybe it's like hip-hop in music and a niche that Christians just can't seem to crack into heavily.

My question is this: does most Christian SF deal mostly in allegory and metaphor, much like the fantasy of Lewis, etc.? Or are there fiction stories that tackle the "how can aliens (or space travel/exploration of other planets) fit into the doctrine of Christianity" question? Kind of like the new series "V" has the priest as a main character... They dealt in some way at the beginning of the first episode with how the V's fit into the Bible and God's plan outlined therein. I thought it was an interesting question, whether one believes in life on other planets or not. I mean isn't that the point of fiction anyway... to explore the unexplorable?

Comments, discussion, and feedback is appreciated.

Judg · Nov 5, 2009

I haven't read enough to know. I can tell you that it is struggling at best. Your best bet is to check out Marcher Lord Press, which specializes in Christian speculative fiction. I've only read one of their books so far (and it was fantasy) but it was pretty decent.

Brutal Mustang · Nov 5, 2009

I'm guessing Christian sci fi isn't popular because so many Christians seem to think the rapture is coming within the next twenty years.

Calla Lily · Nov 5, 2009

<----- Evil Mod really, really hates generalizations. Got facts to back that one up?

ToddWBush · Nov 5, 2009

Brutal Mustang said:
I'm guessing Christian sci fi isn't popular because so many Christians seem to think the rapture is coming within the next twenty years.

I'm actually looking for comments and feedback on the topic of the thread. Not your opinion of someone's faith. Thank you, and have a good day.

Roger J Carlson · Nov 6, 2009

Christian Science Fiction is a tough sell. It's also tough to write. As a life-long reader of SF and as a Christian, I've found very few books that qualify as both Christian and SF. I've had people point to Stephen Lawhead's work as examples of Christian SF, but I've not been impressed (maybe his fantasy is better).

Zondervan (Christian publisher) claims it wants regular SF written from a Christian Worldview. By that, they mean they want the Christian worldview built into the fabric of the story, not necessarily having a Christian "message". Unfortunately, I haven't actually seen any offerings by them that qualify, to my mind.

I've read just one book that I thought was a well-written Christian SF. Well, not SF so much, but Urban Fantasy that takes place in the near future. That's "Wolf Time" by Lars Walker (published by Baen Books). While it is not SF, I believe it is a good example of how a Christian worldview and Christian themes could be built into a good SF novel.

Lyra Jean · Nov 6, 2009

The closest thing I've come across as Christian SF was the Left Behind series. I thought they were so bad I just stopped reading Christian fiction altogether.

Calla Lily · Nov 6, 2009

The LB series had me throwing books across the room, myself. However, Marcher Lord does pub some decent offerings. I'm careful with them--I H-A-T-E preachy characters--but they're the only Christian SF that could almost meet TOR/Baen standards. I say "almost" because there is a definite gap. Alas.

I'm citing only ML because I seriously don't know of any other place that pubs Christian SF. Roger, I haven't seen Zondervan's offerings.

Lyra Jean · Nov 6, 2009

callalily61 said:
The LB series had me throwing books across the room, myself. However, Marcher Lord does pub some decent offerings. I'm careful with them--I H-A-T-E preachy characters--but they're the only Christian SF that could almost meet TOR/Baen standards. I say "almost" because there is a definite gap. Alas.

I'm citing only ML because I seriously don't know of any other place that pubs Christian SF. Roger, I haven't seen Zondervan's offerings.

I did read a book called the Truth Teller. It was okay but it was a little disappointing. Perhaps when I can I'll go back to the Christian bookstore and see what is there.

Judg · Nov 6, 2009

Marcher Lord's stuff can only be bought online. I think you can get it at Espresso Book Machines too, but don't quote me on that.

Brutal Mustang · Nov 6, 2009

ToddWBush said:
I'm actually looking for comments and feedback on the topic of the thread. Not your opinion of someone's faith. Thank you, and have a good day.

Whoa! First off, I am a Christian. Watch what you say, and thanks for reminding me why so many fellow Christians piss me off lately--quick to judge, so many of them are. Second of all, that was my feedback on the topic of why. Believe it or not, there was not emotion or sarcasm intended in that comment. Just stating a fact.

Personally, I think we would have to be in an incredibly technologically advanced age for the rapture to work. An age in which millions could vanish, and it not be that big of a deal. (A weapon? Aliens?) Because if the rapture happened now, everyone would say, "Oh, rapture," and convert. Which is NOT how Revelations shows it playing out.

Truth be told, there is so much untapped potential in Christian sci fi, perhaps because people don't turn the Bible around, and look at what God is saying from a different angle.

Calla Lily · Nov 6, 2009

Mustang, if you look at your post from the Evil Mod perspective, it read as sarcastic and dismissive of Christianity in general. In addition, telling Todd to "watch what he says" when your initial post appeared to be a flip at Christians, isn't in the spirit of this board.

Let's call it a wash, shall we?

I have a question for you: why do you appear to be equating Christian SF with Rapture fic? If Rapture fic can be said to be anything, it's perhaps just a subset of Chrsitian SF.

CS Lewis wrote Christian SF--blatant stuff, to be sure, but definitely SF. Silent Planet and Perelandra weren't Rapture-focused even if Hideous Strength was, in its way. Is there anything like his writing out there today? Should there be? Or have we moved on since the moon landings and the Mars rover?

Brutal Mustang · Nov 6, 2009

callalily61 said:
Mustang, if you look at your post from the Evil Mod perspective, it read as sarcastic and dismissive of Christianity in general. In addition, telling Todd to "watch what he says" when your initial post appeared to be a flip at Christians, isn't in the spirit of this board.

And Todd telling to "have a nice day" in sarcastic fashion was in the spirit of Christianity? Sorry. That pushed several of my buttons. I'm angry.

I have a question for you: why do you appear to be equating Christian SF with Rapture fic? If Rapture fic can be said to be anything, it's perhaps just a subset of Chrsitian SF.

Most Christians strongly believe that the rapture will happen soon, which completely cuts out that we will travel beyond our solar system. Or find other worlds. Or see and do a lot of the things sci fi readers know and love (which is why many Christians I know turn to secular sci fi for their "fix", which unfortunately for them, tends to be very atheistic). So yeah, belief in an immanent rapture has everything to do why there isn't much sci fi in the Christian bookstores. And probably won't be for some time to come.

Polenth · Nov 6, 2009

It isn't Christian SF you need to analyse (in my opinion). It's mainstream SF. The thing that many Christian SF stories lack is not anything to do with which religious themes the story includes... it's the lack of understanding of speculative themes and how religious themes are usually woven into those stories.

As an example, if you retold a fairytale without adding anything new, you wouldn't expect to sell it to a professional speculative market. It should break new ground on interpretation, not just change the setting a little. Yet people write the 'just a new setting' retellings for parables and then wonder why they won't sell.

Ruv Draba · Nov 7, 2009

I don't normally post here, and I'm not a Christian but I am a SF geek and a humanist who believes that religion is an essential part of human development. T So from my view, this is an excellent question, Todd. I think that there is a huge opportunity to explore Christianity and SF. I've seen a little of it, but nothing recent. Here are some ideas that could generate interest among Christians and non-Christians alike:

Suppose travellers met another species, and they had Christian values and a Saviour too -- only their stories were uncomfortably different.
Suppose that evidence were found for Creation and it was exactly as told in the Bible -- but there were important things that the Bible neglected to mention.
Suppose that heaven was found to be a physical place -- and people could actually visit under some circumstances, and come back.
Suppose that the Jewish moshiach appeared first -- and prophesied Jesus returning later.
Suppose that the Old Testament sacrifices and punishments were restored by God's will -- and modern Christians were instructed to be their instrument.
Suppose that God revealed that a particular, very useful technology, was entirely unacceptable, but wouldn't say why.
Suppose that in a post-Christian world, portions of the Bible were rendered illegal to preach, on grounds of being religiously intolerant.
Suppose that God revealed to a small number of people that portions of the Bible had been faked.
Suppose that God instructed that Islam, Judaism and Christianity must merge.

A lot of these sorts of stories test faith, understanding and morality -- but that's exactly what SF does -- it looks at the boundaries of what we know, and poses questions to challenge our beliefs, values, and attitudes. The deeper stuff (not the Star Wars stuff) always makes us uncomfortable, always poses questions that are hard to answer -- and for which there might be more than one answer. Hopefully these premises do that too.

If you ever write a story about something like this and need a non-Christian critter, I'd be glad to help.

Rhys Cordelle · Nov 7, 2009

I'm an atheist, and I have to say almost all of those examples look like interesting reads to me. But I'm not sure how well recieved they would be from a christian audience? Particularly for fundamentalists, as most of those examples explore "what if"s that propose the bible isn't entirely accurate.

BigWords · Nov 7, 2009

I just looked up the page on the rapture in The Other Wiki and I gotta say this, stuff like the seven-headed beast with ten horns and the return of Jesus (cloning coming straight to mind) is perfect for a great SF / horror meld. I am, of course, coming from a non-religious background, so that may or may not be extremely offensive... It has all the elements of a great story though.

Ruv Draba · Nov 7, 2009

Rhys Cordelle said:
I'm an atheist, and I have to say almost all of those examples look like interesting reads to me. But I'm not sure how well recieved they would be from a christian audience? Particularly for fundamentalists, as most of those examples explore "what if"s that propose the bible isn't entirely accurate.

I deliberately chose most of the examples so that the Bible is not inaccurate, and in each example the Bible is not wholly inaccurate. But SF is about frontiers of knowledge challenging us... so I tried to find things that might be beyond the frontier of current Christian knowledge.

Another way to do it is to try and apply existing Christian belief to new frontiers, (but Christians sorta have to do that every day anyway). C.S. Lewis did this with his Space Trilogy, for example.

Polenth · Nov 7, 2009

Ruv Draba said:
A lot of these sorts of stories test faith, understanding and morality -- but that's exactly what SF does -- it looks at the boundaries of what we know, and poses questions to challenge our beliefs, values, and attitudes.

Most of those ideas come down to replacing faith with proof... of a sort that proves Christians got it wrong or God is a nasty piece of work. Not ideal for a Christian audience.

Heaven, hell and the afterlife are themes to be careful around. Not for any religious reasons, but they've been heavily overdone in SF. You'll need an amazing idea to put a fresh spin on it.

L.Jones · Nov 7, 2009

Brutal Mustang said:
Most Christians strongly believe that the rapture will happen soon, .

Mustang - first off I have to say I agreed with you that sci-fi is a hard sell to Christians because part of our faith is the return of Jesus (and if the story means we're all still waiting for that in a thousand years... that could be a deterrent to buying off on the premise).

I also think the thread went snarky fast. Touchy subject, I guess.

My issue are with your assertions of Most and even so many Christians believing the rapture will happen soon. I don't think that's so. Perhaps so many who we think might buy Christian fiction in the usual outlets have that opinion, but as for the vastness of Christian belief and experience, I don't know that Most or even So Many even believe in the Rapture much less strongly think that it will happen within the next 20 yeas.

So that was my sticking point in the comment. I love Christian fiction, I write it. But I often do not see my own beliefs reflected in it, so...

Sci-fi may be a hard sell to publishers because publishers believe so many of the Christians who they aim to sell books to believe the Rapture will happen soon and so they don't want to take a risk that someone will read about the far flung future?
Wishy washy enough for ya?

Me - I think there is a LOT more lattitude for faith issues in writing than is reflected by either secular/Christian publishing but then I am not the one taking the financial risk to publish anything that proves that

annie
Annie Jones Joy Writing Through Life

BigWords · Nov 7, 2009

L.Jones said:
Sci-fi may be a hard sell to publishers because publishers believe so many of the Christians who they aim to sell books to believe the Rapture will happen soon and so they don't want to take a risk that someone will read about the far flung future?http://anniejonesjoywritingthroughlife.blogspot.com/

So... Pitching a story set fifty years in the future (which would still make it SF) holds a better chance at publication?

And my previous response wasn't snarky, for the first time in many, many posts.

Ruv Draba · Nov 7, 2009

Polenth said:
Most of those ideas come down to replacing faith with proof... of a sort that proves Christians got it wrong or God is a nasty piece of work. Not ideal for a Christian audience.

All humans get it wrong, Polenth. We're all fallible and that's a common theme in history, the Bible, and SF. My premises about God were not that God is nasty, but that God is both unknowable and not always convenient -- both of those themes are consistent with the Bible and with Christian belief.

So this is not about replacing faith with proof -- we have plenty of SF like that. This is about challenging faith with its own ignorance -- which is exactly what SF does. The intention is not to damage faith, but rather to grow wisdom.

Must all Christian stories be comfortable and reassuring? If so, I'd suggest that SF is not very compatible with Christian thought, because SF is about looking beyond what we think we know to face the uncomfortable and the inconvenient. If Christian readers don't want to do that (and I don't believe that all Christian readers don't welcome thought and challenge) then Fantasy (such as Narnia etc...) would seem a better fit.

L.Jones · Nov 7, 2009

BigWords said:
So... Pitching a story set fifty years in the future (which would still make it SF) holds a better chance at publication?

And my previous response wasn't snarky, for the first time in many, many posts.

50, yes, I'd bet that would be an easier sell. Even 100 years.

BUT with all publishing, there are no absolutes - someone might do it, might find a way, might squeak in and make an unexpectedly big splash and suddenly....

annie
Annie Jones Joy Writing Through Life

mommyjo2 · Nov 7, 2009

Well, I'm not sure if Frank Peretti counts as SF, he's really more fantasy.

But, while I can't think of a sci-fi book that is explicitly, on the nose Christian, using modern church lingo, I can think of sci-fi books and stories that have Christian themes, and in which the character's actions are explicitly driven (at least in part) by religion by name and a Judeo-Christian morality.

The one that springs to mind is Orson Scott Card's "Xenocide" which explores what is life, what is sentient life, and who or what can decide to kill that life against the backdrop of a Catholic colony. In shorts, Kage Baker's "Where the Golden Apples Grow" is about a Calvinist farm colony and an outcast ice trucker on Mars, kind of a prince and the pauper type tale. (It's in Gardner Dozois' 2006 anthology).

Although I'm not understanding the original question:

Or are there fiction stories that tackle the "how can aliens (or space travel/exploration of other planets) fit into the doctrine of Christianity" question?

because the Christians I know are some of the biggest sci-fi fans and have no problem fitting aliens, etc. into a Christian worldview. After all, with God all things are possible!

mommyjo2 · Nov 7, 2009

and FWIW I am a Christian but I don't think the rapture will happen in 20 years. Or ever. I'm an amillennialist.

Christian SF

DISENCHANTED coming soon

Loves interplanetary chaos.

On hiatus

Moderator In Name Only

Two years old now.

On hiatus

Two years old now.

DISENCHANTED coming soon

Loves interplanetary chaos.

On hiatus

Loves interplanetary chaos.

Mushroom

Geekzilla

Mushroom

Geekzilla

Bad grammar make me [sic]

Bad grammar make me [sic]