Plot lines in memoirs

Bluegate · Nov 6, 2009

Chrisla on the Writing Challenge thread inspired my thoughts about the topic of plot lines in memoirs. She was/is working on a synopsis and query letter and wondering how she might make the otherwise subtle and ambiguous plot line stand out. I began hijacking the thread and thought I might start a new one asking all of you, what is the plot line of your memoir?

Do you have a plot line? Is it clear in your story? Is your protagonist ie you, a strong MC or a passive one that things and events happen to?
As your life/MC moves on through time what is the motivating force or goal?

My life story is complicated, challenging, and not likely to end up in a chronological format. I need something other than a timeline to glue things together. This is why I was so intrigued by Chrisla's comment.

So, what is the glue to your memoir? What is your MCs goal or quest?

Red Bird · Nov 6, 2009

I'm going to do some thinking out loud here.
Yesterday, I met with the chair of the literature department. He told me what he likes the most about my book is my life as a respiratory therapist, which is ironic because when I made my first attempt with a query letter, Katiemac said the same thing.

He was also intrigued by my desire to live, which he thought fascinating because my sister, who had lived the same life, committed suicide. He has a son who suffered mental illness and also took his own life and my book had him questioning what makes one person survive and another die. We discussed it at length and agreed that we each have a threshold for pain and once reached death can seem a better option than living.

So, back to plot.

I wanted to live, but I thought I couldn't live without capturing a memory I had no way of recapturing. I spent twenty-six years getting close to the truth before the emotional pain got to be too much and then I found some sort of escape: men, drugs, exercise, work.

Then, I got myself together long enough to return to work with patients who can't talk. I tried to figure them out by studying their skin. Finally, I got the nerve to ask my mother how I got a scar on my hand. She didn't know. Her memory of the event and mine are different. I remember trying to prevent my baby brother from falling through a glass door, but she remembers my sister being the one who had protected Billy. But, I'm the one with the scar. So, I began to ask myself some questions about my life.

Had I ever been authentic?
Was it possible my mother had her own problems with memories?
How often was I confused with Tina and how had that affected me?
Why do some people survive while others do not?

Oh boy. I have some serious work to do, but this is a start.

What am I not seeing?

Cheers,
Red Bird

Wayne K · Nov 6, 2009

Norman Maclean wrote his memoirs as a series of short stories for the same problem you have. They intersected each other too much. The screenplay for A River Runs Through it is taken from those stories.

Eventually, all things merge into one, and a river runs through it. The river was cut by the world's great flood and runs over rocks from the basement of time. On some of the rocks are timeless raindrops. Under the rocks are the words, and some of the words are theirs. I am haunted by waters.

How would you like to write like that?

Red Bird · Nov 6, 2009

Wayne K said:
Norman Maclean wrote his memoirs as a series of short stories for the same problem you have. They intersected each other too much. The screenplay for A River Runs Through it is taken from those stories.

How would you like to write like that?

If only!

How'd your luch go?

Wayne K · Nov 6, 2009

He said if he likes the first ten chapters he'll get me an agent and publish Black Dark. He said I'd hear back from him soon. Three days ago. I'm dying here.

Red Bird · Nov 6, 2009

Wayne K said:
He said if he likes the first ten chapters he'll get me an agent and publish Black Dark. He said I'd hear back from him soon. Three days ago. I'm dying here.

How exciting! Don't die now, Wayne, you're dreams are coming true. I think these folks get off on making us wait! I'd be wondering why he didn't read the freakin' thing already and come with an offer in hand!!!

Rock on with your bad self!

Red Bird

Wayne K · Nov 6, 2009

If he likes the writing I give all the credit to AW. Srsly.

sommemi · Nov 6, 2009

Wayne K said:
He said if he likes the first ten chapters he'll get me an agent and publish Black Dark. He said I'd hear back from him soon. Three days ago. I'm dying here.

OMG! that's so freakin exciting!!!! I'm going to be on pins and needles!!! I keep telling everyone that I'm dying for you to publish the stupid thing so I can just sit down with the hard copy and read it from beginning to end! I keep stopping myself from going to those links you posted cause I don't want to know about any of the story until I read your book. (Don't want to ruin the ending. LMAO!)

Um... am I a little too excited about this? lol

sommemi · Nov 6, 2009

Red Bird said:
He was also intrigued by my desire to live, which he thought fascinating because my sister, who had lived the same life, committed suicide. He has a son who suffered mental illness and also took his own life and my book had him questioning what makes one person survive and another die. We discussed it at length and agreed that we each have a threshold for pain and once reached death can seem a better option than living.
.
.
.

Then, I got myself together long enough to return to work with patients who can't talk. I tried to figure them out by studying their skin. Finally, I got the nerve to ask my mother how I got a scar on my hand. She didn't know. Her memory of the event and mine are different. I remember trying to prevent my baby brother from falling through a glass door, but she remembers my sister being the one who had protected Billy. But, I'm the one with the scar. So, I began to ask myself some questions about my life.

Wow. That's really really .... awesome thinking out loud!

Ok - I don't know if I see anything different than you are in this particular 'thinking out loud', but it sounds as if your plot line involves these facts/variables:

1) Your job as a resp. therapist
2) Your quest to retrieve your memories
3) Your strength to perservere (sp?) and take a different road than your sister
4) The ever popular question about "why do some people thrive where others have not?" what made you come through it all so differently than your sister?
5) The Possible quest for your 'theory on life'? What phrase, or moral, or 'rule', makes you see life in a different way than others? What keeps you going? (Like some people live by the concept that every day is a new day, or everything happens for a reason, or... whatever trite saying comes up in their head whenever something bad happens.)

I don't know that any of that actually involves a PLOT... but maybe the quest to answer all of this stuff IS the plot? The story starts out as you realize that you have things to work through, and that you realize there is something different about you. Then as you travel through your memories, you take note of little things here or there that stood out to you, and the end result is what you realize about yourself?

sommemi · Nov 6, 2009

As for me.... I don't think there IS a plot.... I dunno. Maybe there is...
I guess I need to think out loud like Red Bird (ha ha! I'm a copy cat! Poor little Red Bird... I promise I won't bite!)

OK....
So mine is actually two books that meet in the middle.... the basic concept of the book is to enlighten people on how two different people can interpret the same story so differently....

And even more so, how a child views their parent's adventures as opposed to how that person views their own adventures. Maybe even the glorification of a child's view of their parent? (Or in my case, the occasional 'sillification' of a parent? Yeah - some stories make me totally wonder what planet my Dad is from. lol)

How does that lead into a plot though? Doesn't a plot have a begining, middle, and end? Oh crap - what are all those parts again? I remember watching my teacher back in school draw a big hill and showing the way a plot works, but can't remember the pieces of it right now. But when I think of a plot, that's what I think of... and I don't see that happening in my book...

Bluegate · Nov 6, 2009

I just wanted to pop in here real quick. I am in and out today and not able just now to add much but that I am peeking in frequently to follow along. Very interesting stuff here!

sommemi · Nov 6, 2009

Bluegate said:
I just wanted to pop in here real quick. I am in and out today and not able just now to add much but that I am peeking in frequently to follow along. Very interesting stuff here!

i KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN!

(oops. didn't mean to yell. caps lock)

Red Bird · Nov 6, 2009

Yes, we have another great thread!

Sommemi, your insights are stirring around in my brain. All good questions I must answer before I can write a query. I don't know what made me survive. I do remember thinking I had a guardian angle looking over me when I was a youngster. I've nearly died several times and can't tell you why I didn't, which is why I now have faith.

What I believe now, that I didn't believe when I started writing my memoir, is we all have a story to tell, which is good. But, becoming a "story" or victim, is much more detrimental than any one event. What I had to do was forgive those who harmed me. They were, after all, sick. It's not my place to judge them. So, faith, forgiveness, will to live, and accepting that I'll never remember that first mind-splitting incident.

Please keep asking me questions everyone. It's really helping me.

Red Bird · Nov 6, 2009

sommemi said:
As for me.... I don't think there IS a plot.... I dunno. Maybe there is...
I guess I need to think out loud like Red Bird (ha ha! I'm a copy cat! Poor little Red Bird... I promise I won't bite!)

OK....
So mine is actually two books that meet in the middle.... the basic concept of the book is to enlighten people on how two different people can interpret the same story so differently....

And even more so, how a child views their parent's adventures as opposed to how that person views their own adventures. Maybe even the glorification of a child's view of their parent? (Or in my case, the occasional 'sillification' of a parent? Yeah - some stories make me totally wonder what planet my Dad is from. lol)

How does that lead into a plot though? Doesn't a plot have a begining, middle, and end? Oh crap - what are all those parts again? I remember watching my teacher back in school draw a big hill and showing the way a plot works, but can't remember the pieces of it right now. But when I think of a plot, that's what I think of... and I don't see that happening in my book...

It's good we all feel comfortable enough to think out loud here. Yes to mutual support.

I think your thoughts on how two different people can view the same story differently is a good plot. The challenge will be to go back and forth without losing momentum. If half of the book is in his voice and the other half is in your voice how will you connect the differing views?

So, the beginning for you may be about how your Dad's stories influenced your childhood. The middle may be about how coming of age caused you to question his life. And the end would be your awareness that you were both involved in this life together, saw it differently, and have come to appreciate the differences.

Sommemi, do keep plugging away at this. I'm thinking once you get the structure down, you'll be good to go. I remember the day the structure of my book fell into place, it was very exciting. Once that made sense to me, it was a lot easier to shift sections around.

Cheers,
Red Bird

Newport2Newport · Nov 6, 2009

More food for thought.

From literary agent Chip MacGregor:

"f you've got this cool story that needs to be told, consider turning it inside out. In other words, don't focus on your personal story -- focus on the principles for living that come out of your story. Don't just use the book to tell what happened -- use the book to share the principles for living you've learned, and use your story to illustrate those principles. [...] f you feel you've got some sort of dynamite story, don't focus on re-telling everyone what happened in your life. Instead, focus on the lessons learned, write about them, and use some of your story as examples in your text."

It's a thought-provoking entry, to be sure, and I recommend reading the whole thing. And if you wouldn't mind sharing, I'd love to hear your take-aways.

Chrisla · Nov 6, 2009

Red Bird said:
Had I ever been authentic?
Was it possible my mother had her own problems with memories?
How often was I confused with Tina and how had that affected me?
Why do some people survive while others do not?
Red Bird

You started me thinking, Red Bird. Some of your questions could be mine, especially the first and last ones. I think I need to start my own list.

I'm remembering now what one of my writing instructors said about a short story I'd written, one that described my decision to write my book. In it, I wrote about the day after my mother had to enter assisted living and I went to her apartment to pack up her things. There I found a treasure trove of memorabilia relating to her children's lives. Sitting on her bedroom carpet, surrounded by those photos, letters, newspaper clippings, dogtags, telegrams. . . I asked myself, "When she's gone and I'm gone, and there's nobody left who remembers, will it be as though it never happened? As though we never existed? "

His comment was, "Good question. The whole story is coming into focus around the question of the meaning of the lives of the members of this family."

Can the theme or plot be that simple?

Wayne K said:
He said if he likes the first ten chapters he'll get me an agent and publish Black Dark. He said I'd hear back from him soon. Three days ago. I'm dying here.

And they leave you wondering how soon "soon" is. That's cruel!

Newport2Newport said:
From literary agent Chip MacGregor:

"f you've got this cool story that needs to be told, consider turning it inside out. In other words, don't focus on your personal story -- focus on the principles for living that come out of your story. Don't just use the book to tell what happened -- use the book to share the principles for living you've learned, and use your story to illustrate those principles. [...] f you feel you've got some sort of dynamite story, don't focus on re-telling everyone what happened in your life. Instead, focus on the lessons learned, write about them, and use some of your story as examples in your text."

It's a thought-provoking entry, to be sure, and I recommend reading the whole thing. And if you wouldn't mind sharing, I'd love to hear your take-aways.

Sounds intriguing, but it's too late for me. I've already written about what happened. But maybe I can focus on the lessons learned and make each chapter reflect that. It's a thought.

IceCreamEmpress · Nov 6, 2009

Wayne K said:
He said if he likes the first ten chapters he'll get me an agent and publish Black Dark. He said I'd hear back from him soon. Three days ago. I'm dying here.

Don't let an editor or publisher "get you an agent" because that's a giant conflict of interest.

If you get an offer, you can take your pick of agents.

Great response to your pitch! Go, you!

Bushrat · Nov 6, 2009

Great thread!! And thought-provoking posts (and cheering ones - keep counting the days, Wayne!!!).

I'm still just in the middle of writing my first draft and I guess the book is something like autobiographical adventure, genre-wise. I've been thinking more and more about exactly these questions posed in this thread and don't have much in the way of answers so far.

The book is basically about what it's like in this day and age to live in semi-remote wilderness, not as a one-year adventure but permanently. I focus a lot on the relationships between people and animals and plants, what warps inside you when you only interact with other people for about 2-3 weeks of the year, what it means to a couple's relationship to be so isolated from other people.
I'd say those are my main themes.

The narrative follows 15 months of wilderness living, containing the highlights and lowlights and wildlife encounters plucked from a number of years and welded together as if they happened in this order. I don't see how I can structure it differently if I want to maintain a flow and incorporate these things that are important to me and that would also help other people gain insight and understanding of life in the bush (I hope!).

Sooo...I think I am aiming to bring across some societal messages and information on the lifestyle and animals for wilderness-interested folks.

The difficulty I have with the plot is that this is not a one-year adventure and I am not writing about our first year out here. Plot would be easy then...neophytes getting their eyes opened to this and that, personal growth etc.
But I really want to write about what it's like after a few years, settling in for the long term, knowing the moose on a first-name basis, having become a bit weird. So it'll be a fair bit of work and hard thinking to figure out a real plot for this...

Newport2Newport · Nov 6, 2009

Chrisla said:
Sounds intriguing, but it's too late for me. I've already written about what happened. But maybe I can focus on the lessons learned and make each chapter reflect that. It's a thought.

If you structure your memoir around a central theme instead of straight chronology, the "lessons learned," become part of the storyline, don't they? I don't think you have to be overtly prescriptive.

While I think we all try to make our unique experiences somehow transcendant, I don't know that I would feel comfortable translating my own experiences into a case study/parable. That's my take-away, after reflecting on Mr. MacGregor's blog entry for most of the day. (I hope you'll weigh in with your opinions, too!)

Red Bird · Nov 7, 2009

Newport2Newport said:
More food for thought.

From literary agent Chip MacGregor:

"f you've got this cool story that needs to be told, consider turning it inside out. In other words, don't focus on your personal story -- focus on the principles for living that come out of your story. Don't just use the book to tell what happened -- use the book to share the principles for living you've learned, and use your story to illustrate those principles. [...] f you feel you've got some sort of dynamite story, don't focus on re-telling everyone what happened in your life. Instead, focus on the lessons learned, write about them, and use some of your story as examples in your text."

It's a thought-provoking entry, to be sure, and I recommend reading the whole thing. And if you wouldn't mind sharing, I'd love to hear your take-aways.

Newport2Newport,

I agree. I think it's common for people to believe their own story is fantastic and needs to be told. I also think many people think because they are telling it the audience knows they have some insight into living. Obviously, if the writer hadn't survived (fill in the blank) the book wouldn't have come into existence, so, to the writer, the victory is obvious. But to iinclude the reader, and avoid coming off as self-absorbed, some universal truths must be told.

I think people want to hear personal stories of celebrities because they want to feel "like" them somehow. To an audience, the famous person is more real. We know they exist because the media has informed us. But the average person doesn't have this ready made platform. We don't have as many people who care about us, or who envy us and would like to get to know us through discovering the complexities of our lives. So, we must do something different to be known. This, I thiink, can be achieved through both the integrity of our writing and our willingness to "be seen." Personal narrative alone won't accomplish the sense of life lessons that create intimacy between an author and an audience, but life lessons will. The challenge is to be able to push through the events and discover what lies beneath them.

Well, thanks for the article. I love stuff that makes me think.
Red Bird

Red Bird · Nov 7, 2009

Bushrat said:
Great thread!! And thought-provoking posts (and cheering ones - keep counting the days, Wayne!!!).

I'm still just in the middle of writing my first draft and I guess the book is something like autobiographical adventure, genre-wise. I've been thinking more and more about exactly these questions posed in this thread and don't have much in the way of answers so far.

The book is basically about what it's like in this day and age to live in semi-remote wilderness, not as a one-year adventure but permanently. I focus a lot on the relationships between people and animals and plants, what warps inside you when you only interact with other people for about 2-3 weeks of the year, what it means to a couple's relationship to be so isolated from other people.
I'd say those are my main themes.

The narrative follows 15 months of wilderness living, containing the highlights and lowlights and wildlife encounters plucked from a number of years and welded together as if they happened in this order. I don't see how I can structure it differently if I want to maintain a flow and incorporate these things that are important to me and that would also help other people gain insight and understanding of life in the bush (I hope!).

Sooo...I think I am aiming to bring across some societal messages and information on the lifestyle and animals for wilderness-interested folks.

The difficulty I have with the plot is that this is not a one-year adventure and I am not writing about our first year out here. Plot would be easy then...neophytes getting their eyes opened to this and that, personal growth etc.
But I really want to write about what it's like after a few years, settling in for the long term, knowing the moose on a first-name basis, having become a bit weird. So it'll be a fair bit of work and hard thinking to figure out a real plot for this...

Bushrat,
Can you really get to know a moose? I love stories like yours. As a child, my favorite books were written by Laura Ingalls Wilder. Something about beating the odds is exciting to me.
The idea that one gets "weird" from isolation is interesting too.
Cheers,
Red Bird

Red Bird · Nov 7, 2009

Chrisla,
I think memoir writers need their own set of questions. I posed this problem on another thread somewhere, because if you read attemped query letters, you'll see they have a standard list of three questions they form their queries around. I don't think their questions are helpful to memoir because they are too general. We'd each answer them the same.
I've been trying to come up with a list of questions that work for us, but haven't had any luck yet.

Something like:

What's different about your life?
What's different about the way you tell your story?
Why would anyone want to read your story? But, that question sets up a "tell" situation in the query, which is a no-no.

I think we're going to have to ask and answer some basic questions before we begin writing query letters though.
Cheers,
Red Bird

Bushrat · Nov 7, 2009

Red Bird said:
Bushrat,
Can you really get to know a moose?

Yes

They are all different. Right now I have a cow and calf here. The cow finds it intruiging that we keep ducks who all answer me in a happy chorus of quacks when I go and feed them. The cow keeps showing up for duck-feeding time and her head whips back and forth between me and the duck house as if she were at a tennis match. I think moose can tell between duck alarm calls and happy calls, so she is probably puzzled why our ducks would be happy when they hear me coming.
Other moose don't find that interesting but are very relaxed around us; some are interested in the dogs; others are skittish...and so on...you don't want to know :tongue

Red Bird · Nov 7, 2009

Bushrat said:
Yes They are all different. Right now I have a cow and calf here. The cow finds it intruiging that we keep ducks who all answer me in a happy chorus of quacks when I go and feed them. The cow keeps showing up for duck-feeding time and her head whips back and forth between me and the duck house as if she were at a tennis match. I think moose can tell between duck alarm calls and happy calls, so she is probably puzzled why our ducks would be happy when they hear me coming.
Other moose don't find that interesting but are very relaxed around us; some are interested in the dogs; others are skittish...and so on...you don't want to know

Actually, I do want to know. I used to live in the country with a man who liked to hunt deer. He would place bait close enough to the house to shoot them without having to exert much effort. I hated it. He hated that when he was home the deer wouldn't come any where near the hosue, but when I was home alone they would venture right up to me. It was the coolest thing. Do you think animals have an instinct for who is safe and who may pose a threat to them?

Cool stuff.

Red Bird

Chrisla · Nov 7, 2009

Bushrat said:
The book is basically about what it's like in this day and age to live in semi-remote wilderness, not as a one-year adventure but permanently. I focus a lot on the relationships between people and animals and plants, what warps inside you when you only interact with other people for about 2-3 weeks of the year, what it means to a couple's relationship to be so isolated from other people.
I'd say those are my main themes.

The narrative follows 15 months of wilderness living, containing the highlights and lowlights and wildlife encounters plucked from a number of years and welded together as if they happened in this order. I don't see how I can structure it differently if I want to maintain a flow and incorporate these things that are important to me and that would also help other people gain insight and understanding of life in the bush (I hope!).

Sooo...I think I am aiming to bring across some societal messages and information on the lifestyle and animals for wilderness-interested folks.

The difficulty I have with the plot is that this is not a one-year adventure and I am not writing about our first year out here. Plot would be easy then...neophytes getting their eyes opened to this and that, personal growth etc.
But I really want to write about what it's like after a few years, settling in for the long term, knowing the moose on a first-name basis, having become a bit weird. So it'll be a fair bit of work and hard thinking to figure out a real plot for this...

Bushrat, I would read this, simply because it's different. That's why we read, especially memoir--for viewpoints of life from a different perspective. And I think all of us structure our books the same way you have. I know mine is. I've taken the events of 20 years, and while most of it is chronological, within that chronological framework, I've had to move some of the events around so they flow with the story and make more sense to the reader. That's necessary because the story is so compressed. But you're right--it makes plot difficult. And because of that, there may be a tendency to tweak the story to create one, something I'm trying to be conscious of and avoid.

I'll be eager to see where you go with this.

Plot lines in memoirs

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Uses loquacious&#8194;in sentences

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practical experience, FTW

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reaching for the sun

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practical experience, FTW

Uses loquacious in sentences

Uses loquacious in sentences

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