Heathcliff, and bastids like him...

Namatu · Aug 16, 2009

Kurtz said:
Sometimes it's handy to learn a little bit about the history of the author and the prevailing cultural winds of the time. It helps you understand, why, say Dante has this real thing for putting Ghibbelines in Inferno. Many of the classics are called classics because of the complicated things going on underneath the novels skin. I know I picked up on a lot more of the freudian undertones of Moby Dick because of the introduction (otherwise I would have thought they were accidental).

If I'd read Moby Dick outside of a class, I would never have known a lot of the allusions it makes, and I'm pretty certain it wouldn't be one of my favorite books. I think classes, and some introductions, can help point out areas you might otherwise overlook as a reader. I admittedly don't read most introductions.

I also don't take classes anymore so I must rely mostly on my own wee brain.

Ken · Aug 16, 2009

... probably has already been mentioned. The partial appeal of Heathcliff, at least for me, is due to his rags to riches rise: from a servant and outcast to an indepedently wealthy gent who answers to no one. Not made clear how he made his loot, when he goes away, as far as I recall. The mystery fits in the awesome novel. Gotta read it again, soon!

ChaosTitan · Aug 16, 2009

Namatu said:
I hated Wuthering Heights. I thought Cathy was manic and Heathcliff was a sociopath. I loathed them both. They completely and undeniably deserved one another.

I couldn't even read it, and I had to for a class back in high school. Got fifty or so pages in and gave up.

The Cliff's Notes were much better.

aadams73 · Aug 16, 2009

I hated Wuthering Heights so much that I call it Withering Heights.

Damn you, high school English!!

Exir · Aug 16, 2009

I know I picked up on a lot more of the freudian undertones of Moby Dick because of the introduction (otherwise I would have thought they were accidental).

Wait, wait... Freud was before Moby-Dick?

Kurtz · Aug 16, 2009

Exir said:
Wait, wait... Freud was before Moby-Dick?

Well no, but how else can you describe the chapter where Ishmael and friends are sitting around a big tub of whale sperm massaging each other?

Kurtz · Aug 16, 2009

KTC said:
no. not helpful. you read all of a period's literature, and you understand that period. i don't care if the author shit yellow or green...i just care about the words...the story.

You cannot understand a culture without knowing its history, just like you can't understand a culture by not experiencing it's literature. The subtleties of 14th century Italian politics are essential to an understanding of the Comedy, who goes where, why they do, in what ways Dante agrees with them, in what he disagrees. His relationship towards them etc etc. Sometimes a schema showing what is going on is important.

i don't overlook areas as a reader.

I didn't immediately recognise that Captain Ahab is a reference to the biblical Ahab in 2 Kings who forsakes Israel and worships Baal. That's a pretty important part of the story but without the introduction I'd have missed it. Same with the constant Ahab = railroad, welding metaphors.

Stew21 · Aug 16, 2009

for me, social, time and genre reference mean nothing. If the words work on the page, they work. That is all. Blame it on, excuse it with, justify it, love it because, ad naseum, all you want, but for me, that stuff has nothing to do with it. You either like the words on the page or you don't. Either the author did a magic trick with an asshole character (to make you like him) or the author didn't. Either the story pulled you through or you have a compulsion to finish any story you start. ETC...

If you don't like WH, why not talk about nasty characters you aren't sure why you like and discuss why.

Isn't that the reason for the thread?

Claudia Gray · Aug 16, 2009

I read introductions. Sometimes I think they're overblown (I read a truly terrible one for Persuasion that I still shake my head over), but sometimes they present interesting insight or critique; even when I don't agree, I sometimes get something out of them, even if it's just a very good counter-argument.

I like talking with people about books. Why wouldn't I like reading people's informed opinions about books?

Priene · Aug 16, 2009

Kurtz said:
The subtleties of 14th century Italian politics are essential to an understanding of the Comedy, who goes where, why they do, in what ways Dante agrees with them, in what he disagrees.

If anyone's thinking of reading Dante, please ignore this. It's simply not true.

Cassiopeia · Aug 16, 2009

Priene said:
If anyone's thinking of reading Dante, please ignore this. It's simply not true.

I've read The Inferno and Paradiso and I couldn't agree with you more.

john barnes on toast · Aug 17, 2009

Samantha's_Song said:
Reading some of the first chapter of WH yesterday and seeing the word ejaculate twice to mean characters talking, a word which more modern writers would be ridiculed mercilessly on here for, I won't be reading anymore of it.

What about that Shakespeare?

It's all 'thou' this, and 'thine' that. Wouldn't make it through it the first draft of any self-respecting modern writer.

Kurtz · Aug 17, 2009

So at least a cursory understanding of the Guelph / Ghibbeline split, and Fra Dolcino's heresy is unimportant? I know theres a lot to be got out of the Comedy without knowing about them, but it does give a greater sense of Dante's time and character. He was intimately involved in politics and the book remains very political. The part at the end of Purgatorio with the DXV is almost incomprehensible even if you know all the symbolism and ideas he is alluding to (which I don't).

Actually now I think about it most introductions depend on a knowledge of the text first, so why they are always at the beginning of the book is beyond me. If I haven't read the book first I'll read it afterwards.

Heathcliff, and bastids like him...

Namatu

Lost in mental space.

Ken

ChaosTitan

Around

aadams73

A Work in Progress

Exir

Out of the cradle endlessly rocking

Kurtz

Fix up, look sharp.

Kurtz

Fix up, look sharp.

Stew21

Claudia Gray

Priene

Out to lunch

Cassiopeia

Otherwise Occupied

john barnes on toast

Kurtz

Fix up, look sharp.