So, what is Theme?

Raphee · Jan 6, 2009

I was going through Jo's thread on theme, and various people gave different interpretations of theme for her story.

What is theme?
How does it interact with plot and story?
How early should we start thinking about it...before we start our story, OR does it appear as a miraculous vision somewhere during the process.

'Theme' has always seemed such an abstract concept, which it probably is, and I find that in a novel with its multiple sub-plots, there are likely to be multiple themes. Just a thought.

Mr Flibble · Jan 6, 2009

I find that in a novel with its multiple sub-plots, there are likely to be multiple themes.

Or multiple variations on a theme. For instance my current WIP has a theme of jealousy. I have professional jealousy, marital jealousy, biblical style jealousy and so on.

While most books may have one main and a few minor themes, I do like it if the sub-plot reflects the main theme, only from a different angle, if you know what I mean.

As to how it interacts with the story - tricky - it's so different for every writer, probably for every book.

scarletpeaches · Jan 6, 2009

A theme can usually be given in three words - love conquers all, who dares wins, etc.

The theme of your novel is the underlying truth which unites all your plots and sub-plots; the ultimate 'thing' which is true in your story's universe.

donroc · Jan 6, 2009

1. Whatever your English teacher says it is.
2. Whatever you as the writer say it is.
3. Whatever the reader thinks it is.

True story: A professor of American Lit. at a college told a student she was wrong when she said the theme of Steinbecks THE RED PONY was .....

The student replied that she had repeated Steinbeck's own statement of his theme.

The professor said that writers do not always know the theme of their own stories and that is why English professors are necessary so they can reveal the true theme of any story.

Danthia · Jan 6, 2009

Themes can also be something that links various elements of a story together. For example, everyone in my book is trapped in some way, and that affects how they act and feel about things. Trapped by circumstance is one of the themes.

ChaosTitan · Jan 6, 2009

donroc said:
The professor said that writers do not always know the theme of their own stories and that is why English professors are necessary so they can reveal the true theme of any story.

::wishes she had more to add than laughing icons::

JoNightshade · Jan 6, 2009

I don't think theme is always necessary. You can have a perfectly good story without one. But I especially think it's important for more "literary" works. (I don't presume to be literary, but I'm trying to pitch that way right now.) I say "literary" in terms of writing style and focus, not in terms of "classic literature," which is basically anything that became famous enough to be remembered.

The example that comes to mind is China Mieville. Every book I've read by him centers around a single theme. The Scar is about - now here's a big surprise - the scars we earn in life and how they change us. Everything in the book builds around exploring this theme. Is there still a strong story? Yes. Is it still gripping? Absolutely.

I guess it just depends on what you want to use as your foundation when you set out to tell the story. Plot? Theme? Character? They're all tools in the writer's bag and we can mix and match as we like.

DeleyanLee · Jan 6, 2009

Theme, IME, deals with the underlying human truth at the core of the story--whether or not any of the participants (author, reader, English prof) are conscious of them during the experience of the book.

For all the help that is, I know. LOL!

scarletpeaches · Jan 6, 2009

JoNightshade said:
I don't think theme is always necessary. You can have a perfectly good story without one...

Every novel has a theme, whether or not the reader is aware of it. It's the underlying truth of that universe which makes the ending necessary, how the whole thing fits together. What the author's trying to say about the world, if you will.

ChaosTitan · Jan 6, 2009

scarletpeaches said:
Every novel has a theme, whether or not the reader is aware of it. It's the underlying truth of that universe which makes the ending necessary, how the whole thing fits together. What the author's trying to say about the world, if you will.

Hmm... Anyone know a good English Professor who can read my book and tell me what my theme is?

nevada · Jan 6, 2009

ChaosTitan said:
Hmm... Anyone know a good English Professor who can read my book and tell me what my theme is?

Survival of the fittest.And I haven't even read your book. See how easy that was.

maestrowork · Jan 6, 2009

A theme is a high-level concept (or concepts) that glue the story together in a coherent way. It's conceptual, abstract, but also relevant.

For example, in Atonement, the underlying themes are truth vs. lies, guilt, reparation and redemption.

In The Reader, the themes are shame and guilt.

Some themes are very potent and deliberate, as if the author constructed the entire novel around the themes. Some themes are more subtle, and they emerge subconsciously throughout the story for the readers. But most stories have at least one theme, however obvious or obscure. Some maybe as simple as "good vs. evil," but that's a theme nonetheless.

kuwisdelu · Jan 6, 2009

I've always been taught that the theme isn't one word. "Love" or "death" or "revenge" are not themes. They are subjects. Subjects are the nouns answering the question "what is this novel about?"

Theme is what the novel says about the subject.

For example, "love is a force stronger than death," or "true revenge is impossible without becoming the same monster you are trying to defeat."

I agree that pretty much every novel has a theme.

I don't think the author has to know the theme, just like the author doesn't have to place symbols and meaning in order for them to naturally arise.

I think of works of fiction as living texts--they interact with all who interact with them. There is the author's interpretation of the work, the reader's interpretation of the work, and even (I believe) the text's interpretation of itself. All of them are valid. All may see different themes and symbols, etc., and all of them can be present in the same work. Theme will be there whether you try to draw it out or not. Sometimes I think it's best to let it arise naturally.

There is rarely ever one right answer. In fact, I've been known to hate author's who try too hard to artificially limit their text to only one right answer...

ccarver30 · Jan 6, 2009

scarletpeaches said:
A theme can usually be given in three words - love conquers all, who dares wins, etc.

The theme of your novel is the underlying truth which unites all your plots and sub-plots; the ultimate 'thing' which is true in your story's universe.

Nice answer!

Mr Flibble · Jan 6, 2009

A theme can usually be given in three words - love conquers all, who dares wins, etc.

Three words? Three!

Oh all right

Jealousy is stupid. There, that's my theme

scarletpeaches · Jan 6, 2009

To add to that answer, ccarver30, I hardly ever realise my own themes on the first drafts. I read through and see which parts of the story jell, play those up and let other parts of the book which aren't compatible with my chosen theme fade into the background.

Sometimes a proverb can help you work out your theme(s). One I've kept in mind was "Birds of a feather flock together." On the rewrite it became "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer." Bit wordy, perhaps, as I previously said most themes can be summed up in three words, but you see my point.

Keeping a theme in mind on the rewrites definitely helps me improve my writing; it tells me which passages 'fit' and which need to be dropped, so they're a great aid in tightening a manuscript.

scarletpeaches · Jan 6, 2009

IdiotsRUs said:
Three words? Three!

Oh all right

Jealousy is stupid. There, that's my theme

I said usually. Not always.

Besides which, you can use as many words as you like due to the fact you scare me.

What with that baseball bat an' all...

The Lonely One · Jan 6, 2009

donroc said:
True story: A professor of American Lit. at a college told a student she was wrong when she said the theme of Steinbecks THE RED PONY was .....

The student replied that she had repeated Steinbeck's own statement of his theme.

The professor said that writers do not always know the theme of their own stories and that is why English professors are necessary so they can reveal the true theme of any story.

*pukes in mouth.

This is an appendage of the college literary culture that is so disgusting and vile in its presumptive self-righteousness that we aught amputate it posthaste.

Professor: "Don't you write in a Starbucks?"
Student: "No. Should I? I didn't realize it was important to write in a specific location."
Professor: "If you ever want agents to take you seriously, you should write in Starbucks. If it wasn't for English professors, no students would ever figure that out."
Student: "Gee, professor, thanks! What would I do without you?"
Professor: "Oh, and also, never shake your head to clear it. I hear your manuscript will spontaneously combust on the spot should you ever err in such a sinful manner."
Student: "Oh, ok. I don't want to make any waves."

James D. Macdonald · Jan 6, 2009

kuwisdelu said:
I don't think the author has to know the theme....

The author may not have to know the theme, but knowing the theme makes it way easier to revise.

Teena · Jan 6, 2009

donroc said:
The professor said that writers do not always know the theme of their own stories and that is why English professors are necessary so they can reveal the true theme of any story.

OMG!!!

I'm sending this anecdote to a good friend who is a retired English prof/English Department Chair. I hope the indignation (and laughter) don't kill her.

This reminds me of the prof who wants to tell the poet what his poem is 'really' about. Geez!

Raphee · Jan 6, 2009

Reading the above, theme is a poor, far-off relative to plot and story. If he appears fine, otherwise we want to have our laughs with the characters and all those other fun dudes.

THEME: may I join the party.
AUTHOR: If you insist...on second thought, I really don't know you all that well.

Sean D. Schaffer · Jan 7, 2009

Raphee said:
I was going through Jo's thread on theme, and various people gave different interpretations of theme for her story.

What is theme?
How does it interact with plot and story?
How early should we start thinking about it...before we start our story, OR does it appear as a miraculous vision somewhere during the process.

'Theme' has always seemed such an abstract concept, which it probably is, and I find that in a novel with its multiple sub-plots, there are likely to be multiple themes. Just a thought.

Someone once asked me, when I told them I wrote Fantasy Fiction, "What is the theme of your book?"

I could not answer the guy, because frankly, I'm not writing about themes. I just want to tell a good story.

The guy looked at me for about ten seconds, and then told me I'd never get a book published if I could not tell an editor in a nutshell what my theme was.

But then again, the same guy told me that a 90,000 word manuscript using the 250 method would be around 3,000 pages long.

Basically, I never knew what my book's theme was until after I was finished with it. Even then, it would have been hard for me to pinpoint the exact meaning of my book. I just know I like to write good, entertaining, and uplifting stories. When I try to get into the deeper meanings of my stories, I always fall flat on my face.

Mad Queen · Jan 7, 2009

I agree with peaches. Your book has a theme, whether or not you can tell what it is. This WIP of mine, when I started it, I just wanted to tell an interesting story too, but a deeper meaning soon emerged out of it. It's spontaneous. But I think it's better to be aware of it. Knowing the theme can help you determine what belongs or doesn't belong to the story, for instance.

Diana Hignutt · Jan 7, 2009

I wrote my first novel, a fantasy, at, let's say, an extremely transitional period in my life. In many ways in can be read as just a fantasy thriller, but it's really about complex identity issues. I've seen it classified and shelved as literary fiction in several libraries because of the "power of the theme."

So, what is Theme?

In debt to AW

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

Historicals and Horror rule

Danthia

Around

has finally arrived

Writing Anarchist

Around

Fear the Death Ray

Revolutionize the World

Nicole Castro

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

Why is a raven like a writing desk?

Your Genial Uncle

Bennie's Mom

In debt to AW

California Mountain Snake

Very Tired