I think I lost confidence in my own writing. (Comparing yourself to published authors

Lots of wise words here already, just wanted to add my own experience and opinion to help if possible. I'm 30, and I started my WIP back when I was in highschool. Through a convulted series of events the story got worked on haphazardly over the years sometimes going a few years untouched. I would love to publish it, not for the fans, but for myself. I write because I enjoy it, and I enjoy developing my fictional world/story. If I get fans that's great, but the only other thing I really want out of writing is money so that I can write more and work elsewhere less (so fans would be great mostly for making money). ;-) Don't write for someone else, write for yourself. Now granted if you submit to a publisher and they are interested but want modifications, make them.

Bottom line, you need to write for the love of it, since though you could one day be published, that may be a while off since life throws a lot of interruptions your way, and though I wish personally that I had finished my story a long time ago, I realize that I have matured and am currently writing a better story now then I would have been able to back then.

So take your time, do it right, and keep at it.

I lose my confidence all the time, for about 30 seconds.

I'll be reading a book by someone and go "F...k, why can't I write like that?" Then after I give it some thought, I realize, I CAN write like that.

I'll see someone get published that sucks as a writer. After I calm down, I realize that getting published is not only talent, but it's also luck. Then I think of all the slots I've played in Vegas and how much I really took home and realize lightening just hasn't struck yet.

I'll be at our writer's group meeting and some new kid will read something that just blows everyone away. I find out the guy or girl has only been writing a few months! Then I realize everyone has to start somewhere, and talent doesn't always strike the same way.

So's life.

Think about being inspired when reading well-written books you enjoy. That's what I do. When I read a great book by an author I admire, I get butterflies and think "I can be this good some day." And then I get excited to dive into the WIP and have even greater enthusiasm than ever. It's all about perception. And attitude. Start filling that glass to the halfway point instead of emptying it halfway and you'll start to notice a big difference.

minervaK said:

...I finished Megan Abbott's first book, 'Die a Little' a few weeks ago. The thing was so good I almost wanted to cry. How in the hell can somebody be so good first time out?

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If you thought Die a Little was good, wait until you read Queenpin. It's amazing.

That said, remember that Abbott has a Ph. D. in English and American Literature--she'd done a lot of writing and reading before she wrote her first book.

Also, she's a genius.


Look, there's no point comparing yourself to other writers, whoever they are. I mean, what, are you going to be "Now I'm as good as Barbara Cartland; next I'll be as good as Danielle Steel; then Nora Roberts; then Helen Fielding; then Dawn Powell; then LOOK OUT JANE AUSTEN!" It's not like a tennis tournament in which you advance up the ladder.

Toothpaste, what's the difference between readers and fans?

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I dunno -- you may be using the words interchangeably to mean the same thing, so I don't want to turn this into an argument of semantics.

However... I think the difference between readers and fans is how you, the author, think of them, not how they think of you.

Writing for readers: I want to write a book that will interest them. I want to write a book that they will enjoy reading.

Writing for fans: I want to write a book so that ALL those people will LOVE ME!!! I want to be POPULAR! I want to be FAMOUS! I want to be LOVED!

The writer serves the reader. The fans serve the writer's ego. Writing for readers is productive. Writing for fans is not.

Jerry B. Flory said:

I know a cure.
Begin your novel in a deliberate attempt to mimic those authors and watch your writing. Keep it up. Try to stay in that frame of mind and pay attention to when your own voice tries to creep into your writing. When it does, don't try to stop it. Write with it. Then compare.
You will notice that, like those other writers you do possess your own voice and it wishes to be heard; it has something to tell you. It will be different than those other writers, it is impossible for you to copy another writer when in your own voice. mimicry is a conscious, willful act.
Writing is something else entirely.

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I agree with this advice, except that I wouldn't suggest using most of those authors, since it's the same genre that the OP writes in.

There's this trap that I've gotten into before and that I've seen other people who write get into a lot more often, and that's that 1) they love a book so much that they want to have written it, when that's not possible, and/or 2) they only read one genre and want to write in that genre, and since that's all they read, everything they write is derivative and uninspired.

I write historical fiction/art historical fiction. If all I ever read was Sharon Kay Penman and Tracy Chevalier, I would not only cry myself to sleep every night, but my work would suffer terribly. It would be a pale copy of Sharon Kay Penman's work or Tracy Chevalier's work.

Imitation IS a good way to hone your writing skills, as with any kind of learning - as Miss Snark put it in her infamous blog, (paraphrased) one should find writers one really loves and study them extensively, diagram their sentences, outline their plots, write sketches on their characters, and then imitate. Find out how they wrote their book, reduce it to its skeleton, and that will help you learn how to write yours well.

But IMO, it's like an artist copying the masters. If a talented painter studies nothing but copy the works of the impressionists, over and over and over again, then his original paintings might look a lot like Renoir's. But they will never be great. He may find buyers, but he will never become the next Renoir. Because Renoir already happened. He's important because he pioneered.

So by all means, read. Study. Imitate. But don't read 90% fantasy and write fantasy. Find some writers who have been dead for 50 years that you enjoy, find some midlist authors that you enjoy, read several genres, read both literary fiction and commercial fiction. If you want to write urban fantasy, don't read Twilight and base it on that. Read Henry James' The Golden Bowl and base it on THAT. Or something.

This has gotten sort of long, sorry, but for the last iteration of my point, Stephen King's On Writing has a list of novels that he read that year. John Saul is not on it. Amy Tan and Henry James *are* on it.

And for heaven's sake, if all the books in the world were Harry Potters and Twilights and Bourne Identities, I would lose my will to live.

You might think this is irrelevant, Blue, but the first thing I'd do is get rid of the NaNo word counter in your sig and the invitation for people to laugh.

Seems negative to me, and the last thing you need is a reason to come down hard on yourself.

Besides which, it's 2009 now - new year. You're a writing machine!

scarletpeaches said:

You might think this is irrelevant, Blue, but the first thing I'd do is get rid of the NaNo word counter in your sig and the invitation for people to laugh.

Seems negative to me, and the last thing you need is a reason to come down hard on yourself.

Besides which, it's 2009 now - new year. You're a writing machine!

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Blue, I agree with Scarlet. You put yourself down way too much.

And the NaNo word counter, along with the "Go ahead, laugh" line, though you might have intended it for a chuckle, really is going to hurt you. You don't need that. Like Dave Kuzminski once said, a few years back, stop telling people how bad you think your writing is, and instead focus on what's good about it.

For one thing, you have a very good command of the English Language. Your grammar is pretty decent, and though I've seen a couple problems with misplaced parentheses, those problems are easily correctible.

And most importantly, you have shown that you really love your Craft. The one thing that gets in your way is your own poor self-image. I know what that's like, Blue. I've dealt with the same exact situation in my own life for decades. I think you need to stop worrying about what you are or are not capable of, and instead look at what you enjoy about your writing. Stop focusing on what you've done wrong, and instead look at what you love about what you do.


The whole point of our Craft, from what I've experienced, is to enjoy yourself. Have fun, and stop worrying about what you think you might be doing wrong.

The one thing I want to add to all the good advice on this thread: what you should keep in mind is that becoming a best-selling author depends a great deal on luck. The right book at the right time, good word of mouth or a good initial push for it from the publisher (or both) and once it becomes famous enough the process starts feeding on itself. Now the book usually has to have something for this to start, a good concept, easy to love characters, captivating writing or whatever, but even great books with all those can end up midlist. And sometimes the right book at the right time can end on the bestseller lists even if it's not really all that good in any of those categories. I'm nearly fifty years old and I have read a lot in my life, and there are plenty enough books I found by happenstance which I think are at least as good or sometimes way better than several of the bestsellers I have read. So comparing your writing to the bestsellers is futile. They won the lottery. Nice if you can get it, but if you can't it wont necessarily mean your writing is crap.

And as for the books which sold so badly that the publisher dropped the writer as if she was a hot potato: Even they have fans. Maybe not many fans, but there probably aren't that many books which have not been important to at least one or two people who read the story at a point in their lives when it really spoke to them. For that the book doesn't have to be good in any objective way. Just the right thing for the right person at a right time. And yes, some of those really badly selling books may also be really good books, just ones with bad luck.

And the last point: there are probably also far too many great writers who never got published simply because they gave up too easily. Or never even tried. Now there are also far more mediocre or bad writers who never got published. But you can't really know which group you belong to unless you keep on trying. So the best thing to do is to concentrate on writing as well as you can, at that moment, keep sending the stuff out and perhaps try to find some really crappy books and stories to read from time to encourage yourself.

And by the way, what you find good or crappy will keep on changing as you mature. There are books I absolutely adored as a teenager which I am totally unable to read now. Some of them I still have on my bookshelf, simply because they have stories in them I still love, in memory, but when I try to read them now I give up after a page or two with frustration because I find the writing simply bad. And there are also books I was unable to get when younger which I came to love later.

BlueLucario said:

I think to myself, why can't I write like this?

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Because you're not them.

That is a GOOD thing.

What you bring to the table is YOUR individuality as a person and a writer.

It's what they do, after all.

And yes, 'tis true, you will find a number of no-talent hacks who failed 5th grade English who have books on the bestseller list. It's part of the industry, life ain't fair. Well, screw them and bull ahead regardless!

Once upon a time I wanted to write like ____ (a world famous bestseller). I read all his stuff, loved it, tried to write the same way.

Then I started to write better than ___. I went through his works and began to see just how awful his stuff really was. Could have knocked me over with a feather.

I threw his latest book across the room and got on with my OWN voice and ideas and never looked back. He's still a bestseller, but I know for a fact that I'm a better writer.

But I can't help but ask myself if I'm talented enough to write period.

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Welcome to the club. We all get that now and then. We get over it.

If my book would captivate as many fans as those authors did.

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Make sure it captivates YOU, and don't worry about them. I wrote the kind of book I wanted to read, but couldn't find. It worked.

I read an article that first books NEVER sell.

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Screw that. Mine did. In fact, it got me a 6-book contract. Of course I had to work for it! I've a sign over my desk: "GOALS, not expectations." It keeps me scribbling.

If "just write" is the only method, then I feel embarassed.'

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Get over it and put on your game face. Self-consciousness never sold a book. If you have to pretend you're someone else while you write, then do it, but get words out of your brain. (Today I am Pauly Pulitzer and I am going to awe the world with the fantastic words I'm about to write.)

When I was a kid I began the introduction to a story with a "please forgive the rotten writing you're about to read" to warn the world about my utter lack of talent.

About two lines in I suddenly realized I was being a complete moron. It was just silly!

I dumped that 'tude and WROTE.

It's umpty years later and I've sold more than 20 novels and am editing others.

Self-doubt makes failure an easy option. The word no is just too common.

Lord knows I heard it often enough when I was growing up. I was told in no uncertain terms that I would never ever sell anything and ordered to stop writing. (It was for my own good, then I'd not be disappointed later when I didn't sell.)

I wrote during study hall. If I was caught writing at home I was given chores since "You're not doing anything." Soon as I got wheels I'd escape to the library and scribble there, free from the negativity in the house.

Again, it totally worked. It took years of trying and fighting, but I'm a professional in an insane industry. Wouldn't trade it for anything.

Okay, maybe for a winning lottery ticket worth millions.

But I'd still write.

Now kick yourself in the butt and get to work.

I hate the idea of luck in publishing. Hate it, hate it, hate it. It's too dependent on outside forces. I make my own fate.

In fact, I hate the idea of 'luck' so much that I refuse to believe in it.

Like that golfer said, "The more I practise, the luckier I get."

I'm a control freak and I utterly refuse to believe that my future career depends on anything other than my own hard work.

Sure, you have to be in the right place at the right time but there is more than one right place or time. If you lose one chance or get one knockback, another opportunity will present itself eventually. It takes work to have a manuscript ready when that chance comes, not luck.

Opportunity doesn't just knock once in life. She keeps coming back for more. And I intend to be ready for her.

I'm sure it has been said often already, but it bears repeating: Comparing yourself to other successful (and even unsuccessful) writers is often a futile exercise.

This is because what happens so often is exactly what happened to you. A person tends to get caught up in the "wow, this is so much better than my writing" and "why can't I write like this" thoughts that any usefulness of analyzing another author's writing is lost.

Write the best you can. Then try to improve upon it. Then try to improve upon that. Rinse and repeat.

Let others worry about making comparisons between your writing and the writing of others.

All that being said, all the successful authors you've compared your work to have one thing in common: They aren't on some website questioning their writing ability when compared to "X" author. They are out there honing their craft.

Reminds me of a Lance Armstrong quote: "People always ask what I'm on. I'm on my bike, pedalling my ass off eight hours a day."

Scarletpeaches, even I don't believe it's all up to luck. Hard work should be able to get you a career as long as you keep on trying long enough.

What I do believe is that those who get on the bestseller lists do need luck. To stay there, after the first time, may also be more up to that hard work department, but that first time - at least some luck. If you have written a good novel, less luck, and if you have a fairly bad one lots and lots of luck, but even that can happen.

And I do believe that bad luck can keep you from getting published even when you are good enough. At least the first times. If you keep on trying long enough you should be able to overcome that. If you are good enough. And if you keep on trying long enough.

And I find that thought of luck mostly encouraging, because it means that when I get rejected it doesn't necessarily mean my stuff is unpublishable, it might also mean that I just haven't hit the right place/right time combination. And a bit scary, because it might also mean that something might get published which will totally embarrass me after I get better at writing. The other discouraging part is the fact that I have started writing only about nine years ago, and I am, as said, getting close to fifty, so with bad luck I might not have enough time to get both good enough and hit that right time/right publisher combination early enough to actually be able to get something like a career out of this, which is something I do want. Writing is a need for me, so I will keep on doing it regardless, but it would be kind of nice to get both published and selling well enough to be able to keep on getting published. At least that would make talking about writing ideas a bit easier with those of my friends and relatives who don't write themselves (yes, I have done enough of those 'have you been published, when are you going to be published, do you think you will ever get published and if not what's the point -conversations that I mostly keep my mouth shut about writing nowadays. How come writing seems to be one of the few hobbies which will get those responses? Especially if you say you write novel-length stories, not autobiographical musings. And that you do send the stuff for consideration. With sports, for example, people don't seem to see the time spend seeing if you are good enough to become a professional time wasted, even if nothing serious ever gets achieved.).

Prozyan said:

I'm sure it has been said often already, but it bears repeating: Comparing yourself to other successful (and even unsuccessful) writers is often a futile exercise.

This is because what happens so often is exactly what happened to you. A person tends to get caught up in the "wow, this is so much better than my writing" and "why can't I write like this" thoughts that any usefulness of analyzing another author's writing is lost.

Write the best you can. Then try to improve upon it. Then try to improve upon that. Rinse and repeat.

Let others worry about making comparisons between your writing and the writing of others.

All that being said, all the successful authors you've compared your work to have one thing in common: They aren't on some website questioning their writing ability when compared to "X" author. They are out there honing their craft.

Reminds me of a Lance Armstrong quote: "People always ask what I'm on. I'm on my bike, pedalling my ass off eight hours a day."

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QFT.

Edited to expand a bit:

I'm a good deal older than you, Blue, and I still struggle with this from time to time. The trick, in my opinion, is to not dwell on it. You've gotten a lot of excellent advice, including the post I quoted above. You have your own voice, your own way of telling a story, so the only person you really need to compare yourself against is...yourself. Try to do better than you've done before, and let other writers worry about themselves.

BlueLucario said:

I think I did use them interchangebly. Forgive me for that.

I just want the readers. If they love my writing, that would mean something. I wouldn't mind if there are others who dislike the book, even so, I'd still appreciate them reading my work.

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Are you sure you're being honest with yourself about that? In earlier posts, you seemed to focus on wanting praise from other people, so much so that you seemed to have difficulty writing without it. That's different from simply having readers. If you never received feedback from readers, would you be okay with that?

Again, you have to enjoy the process of writing first and foremost. Everything else is gravy.

BlueLucario said:

To be honest, I don't know. Maybe I didn't mean what I said. The praises weren't all that great anyway, I tend to disregard the freakishly positive ones. I'd prefer honest opinions over praises.

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Let me pipe in here real quick, Blue, and just point out that honest opinions and praises are not always mutually exclusive. In other words, when someone praises your work, it's not always because they're being dishonest with you. I had to learn that the hard way over the last several years, so I can see where you might think that an honest opinion and a praise would be two different things.

Nevertheless, Blue, I would recommend that you don't get caught in the trap of believing that nonsense. Try to consider all the praises you receive as honest, unless the person giving it to you has made it clear that it's not.

You should especially be thankful for praises from established, published writers or professional editors. As one such person related to me a couple years back, they don't normally give "empty praise."

It might take you some time, Blue, before you understand that every praise is not automatically dishonest. That's fine. But you can at least start yourself out on the right track by graciously accepting the praises of other people. You don't have to feel right about it to verbally say, "Thank you for the compliment," because you're training yourself to accept a good word from others. Don't worry about lying, Blue. (I say that because I used to worry about that very thing) Thanking someone for a compliment when you don't feel good about your work is not lying. What it really is, is accepting that other people have a different opinion than you might have.

Unless they're being sarcastic when they give you a compliment, their praises are a good thing.

Echoing Sean here.

I received a compliment tonight, not related to writing but a compliment it was.

I was once told if you can't think of anything else to say, simply reply, "Thank you."

Even if you disagree with it, just thank the person for the compliment, or eventually they'll get sick of your disagreement and stop paying them.

Our Greatest Fear —Marianne Williamson

it is our light not our darkness that most frightens us

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.

Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.

It is our light not our darkness that most frightens us.

We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous,
talented and fabulous?

Actually, who are you not to be?

You are a child of God.

Your playing small does not serve the world.

There's nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other

people won't feel insecure around you.

We were born to make manifest the glory of
God that is within us.

It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone.

And as we let our own light shine,
we unconsciously give other people
permission to do the same.

As we are liberated from our own fear,
Our presence automatically liberates others.

—Marianne Williamson

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And, equally profound:

DON'T PANIC!
Douglas Adams

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Go placidly amid the noise and the haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.

As far as possible, without surrender,
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even to the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons;
they are vexatious to the spirit.

If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain or bitter,
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your own career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

Exercise caution in your business affairs,
for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals,
and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love,
for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment,
it is as perennial as the grass.

Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.

Beyond a wholesome discipline,
be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be.
And whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life,
keep peace in your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.

-- Max Ehrman

Sean D. Schaffer said:

Let me pipe in here real quick, Blue, and just point out that honest opinions and praises are not always mutually exclusive.

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"Praises," as in more than one praise? Is that correct usage or is praise as a noun always singular? I can move this to the grammar forum if a mod thinks this post is a derail. I'm just curious because praises looks seriously weird to me.

praises works.