Archive of the NEPAT

NicoleJLeBoeuf said:

That's how PA works: just like a vanity press. When they call themselves "traditional," implying "just like the mainstream commerical publishers," they are lying.

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Remember that vanity presses have a long tradition of their own....

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It's true, you don't have to buy your own books. But Psychiatrist Bill is betting that you will.

Look at Playland Park in Rye, New York. Admission is free! You don't have to buy tickets to get on the rides, but management is betting that you will.

Trapped in amber said:

I've asked these kinds of questions before, but a lot of people have arrived since then and I think they're worth asking again.

For those who signed with PA;

1. What made you realise that Publish America was not what it appeared to be?
2. Looking back, what do you wish you were aware of before you signed the contract? Is there any one thing that someone could have said that might have changed your mind?
3. What would you say to someone contemplating sending their book to Publish America?

I think sharing this kind of information can help focus our collective efforts.

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1. Looking at Preditors and Editors and came across the PA listing.. which led me here, which led me to weep.. for awhile anyway.

2. I wish I had asked more questions and had somebody else read it with a more selective eye than I did. I assumed too much in the vague language and assumed the best intent instead of the worst.

3. I would simply tell them my story as calmly as possible without any slant or rant. I have found that if one is too agressive in makng a statement that the dialogue becomes defensive and closed. This only leads to the person in question defending themselves and closing thier mind. A closed mind accomplishes nothing but reinforce a bad decision. Be sincere, be truthful and let the writer come to their own conclusion. It is difficult to admit that one has been taken or even worse been blindsided by a scam.

reph said:

'Twould be nice if everyone paid attention to what Victoria just said:

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=200662&postcount=21083

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Yes, I consider my hand duly smacked. I'm going in and removing all the pictures. In all honesty, I had no idea. Veddy solly.

Well, Jean Marie accused me of cutting and pasting posts from the PA private board to here. I didn't, mainly because I didn't know how. I have never cut and pasted any PA post. The proof is right here on the thread!

I called her a liar because she lied. I tried to make up with her and she would have none of it. She pleaded with PA to have me banned and even called on HB Marcus to do something to have me banned. I was banned on the private board. Later, I got myself banned from the public board.

She called me some pretty bad names as did some of her friends and I will just step off the Jean Marie welcome weagon right here. I want no truck with her.

postshy said:

Please do not be so sensitive and I mean this in a kindly way. I am a "newbie" to the Board myself and yet I can understand why those who are not PA Authors, but are working on our behalf, sometimes seem a little abrupt. Like any other Board, people often use this Board for their own purposes - to extoll their book (I have never mentioned the name of mine here), to promote dissension and other equally nefarious reasons. Obviously, the people who post on this Board are very sensitive about these issues and have to protect themselves.

However, if you are genuine in your wish to help in the fight against PA, and every little counts, then I too advise that you read this forum and take part in the efforts, suggested by other people with more experience than us, to make PA accountable for its actions. You write well and would be an asset to AW, I am sure.

I hope you will stay and encourage others to join you if your intentions are of the best - that means "the worst" for PA.

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This board has so much to offer, not just talk about PA.... This board is filled with tallented writers that come together to comunicate. The neverending PA thread is not the only one around. So if you are reading this... Educate yourself, but not just throught the NPA thread, but throughout all the threads. Surf away!!!!

Welcome Jean Marie!!! Good to see that you will be here!

PAthetic Publisher

Trapped in amber said:

1. What made you realise that Publish America was not what it appeared to be?
2. Looking back, what do you wish you were aware of before you signed the contract? Is there any one thing that someone could have said that might have changed your mind?
3. What would you say to someone contemplating sending their book to Publish America?

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1. It was a gradual awareness as time went on. My first reality check came with the price they set on my book. It was twice what it should have been for similar books. The H.B. Mucus fiasco was the last straw. Any publisher that would allow him to pollute the boards as he did/does is not one of integrity. Also, the lack of professionalism all the way around is apparent, and I wish I saw it before. Their lack of response to e-mails, lack of professional editing, childish comments when replying to those who ask legitimate questions--these and the fact that they are getting so much negative press on all sides shows that it is a publisher that should be avoided.

2. a.) I wish I knew that my book would not appear on store shelves. Why spend all that time in writing a good book if no one is going to find it to read it?
b.) I did a web search on PA, but at the time I signed with them, I found little or nothing negative about them. (That has now changed thanks to A.W., which I found only because someone had posted this addy on the private PAMB just before I was banned.)

3. RUN!!! Head in the opposite direction!!! If you sign, you will regret it for at least the next 7 yrs. or the length of your contract. Your own reality check will appear with your first "royalty cheque."

Dolan said:

Well, Jean Marie accused me of cutting and pasting posts from the PA private board to here. I didn't, mainly because I didn't know how. I have never cut and pasted any PA post. The proof is right here on the thread!

I called her a liar because she lied. I tried to make up with her and she would have none of it. She pleaded with PA to have me banned and even called on HB Marcus to do something to have me banned. I was banned on the private board. Later, I got myself banned from the public board.

She called me some pretty bad names as did some of her friends and I will just step off the Jean Marie welcome weagon right here. I want no truck with her.

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Sorry to hear about your experience. Hopefully you can accept a new slate and give her a chance over here

Dolan said:

She called me some pretty bad names as did some of her friends and I will just step off the Jean Marie welcome weagon right here. I want no truck with her.

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I hear you and understand. No one can force anyone to like or trust another.

As more and more of the PA Boosters become PA Bashers, we'll have more of these interactions. No saints here.

(Oh -- and Phil was never one of the cut-n-pasters. That would be me.)

Once or twice something has appeared from the private boards, but it's long been policy here to delete those things.

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We see all the stages of grief among PA authors as they learn their book is dead: Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance.

I would just add this...

...I can understand strong feelings about the past, but my tendency is to evaluate people based on the present. Lots of time has been devoted here to how deceptive PA is, and more than one person has vigorously defended them when they were new to the PA fold. Some of these same people are now our best advocates against PA and its practices. Personally, for me, I will welcome any and all PA authors here except one, and I need not say more...

Yep, Phil, I know all that stuff stings. She may even be sorry for it now. Will you be able to forgive her? After all, none of us is perfect, especially when we're in the middle of a big glass of Kool Aide.
Others on this board have suffered terribly at the hands of some PA authors (some who have never even BEEN PA authors). Those that apologized have been forgiven...

Give her a chance, is all I'm saying. And if not, well, to each his own.

It's difficult to keep in mind, but the behavior of some folks to the truth is a lot like someone who is drowning. Out of panic, they'll clutch at anything in order to avoid drowning, even if it's a nearby straw when there's a flotation device just a bit farther away. They'll even climb on top of another individual.

PA offers its writers straws that are closer, so it's only natural for their writers to clutch at those first and to climb over each other to avoid drowning in the deep water that PA enticed them into. It's only when the writers control their panic or accidentally grasp onto one of the flotation devices, such as AW, WB, or P&E, that they find some safety.

Most of the writers over at PA have been deceived. Their behavior can and should be excused even though some of it was hurtful to a number of individuals there, here, and elsewhere. Only a very few who remain in the PA forum should be condemned for their actions.

Also, consider this. Some of those folks coming here might have been our partners in disguise. Maybe they had to act that way to fit in so they could pass on information. I will certainly admit that I've had several sources over there whose identities I will never divulge.

I support Dolan's right to not welcome anyone he doesn't want to welcome (not that I imagine he needs my support). In a group this size, where so many people have been dragged over the rocks in one way or another, it's inevitable that not everyone will like everyone else equally.

PA has unwelcomed their own. They have alienated, tormented, insulted and banned some of the most wonderful people over there. Some authors were under duress, and spoke "company think" to avoid persecution, where others were firmly disolusioned--others were just plain lied to.

We represent everything that PA is not. We have to rise above their Id mentality and exhibit sound advice and teach fair practice. If AW can't be a port in their storm, who will be? We must set and maintain an impecable example, even if sometimes we're not totally above reproach.

We owe it to all potential members the opportunity to experience what a true
traditional writing group is like. They might tell about God's forgiveness and mercy over there at PA. But we are obligated to show it.

Tri

A common consequence of having a big bad evildoer who victimizes many, many people is seeing these people as innocent victims beyond anything else. Just because you get taken by a con artist, it doesn't follow that you are a great person who deserves support and sympathy (now I'm absolutely generalizing, so please, no one take this personally).

Ken speculated earlier what might happen if a mafioso got taken by PA. Consider this for a moment: if such a person realized they had been scammed, would you cut them alot of slack for the fourteen executions they had ordered? Believe it or not, some PA authors (and some authors who are huge commercial successes) are no doubt of highly questionable moral character, some are probably downright nasty/bad/evil people.

While I don't have the thread to quote from, I remember one PA'er extolling the virtues of another company and it's business model (the PA'er worked for them at one time). This company is a scam outfit, I recognized it by the details given, though it's actual name was not. Other PA'ers have engaged in what was widely agreed here to be disreputable behavior in their efforts to promote themselves and their books, to get their books in bookstores, to garner favorable reviews, etc.

Going along with the crowd is not always (maybe not ever) enough of a reason to justify bad behavior. Sometimes, you have to speak the plain truth about people and their actions; a little penance may be approriate from time to time as well. Would Cigarette-Buying-Man be received with open arms immediately? Ever?

Just my 3 cents...

Rob

robeiae said:

Sometimes, you have to speak the plain truth about people and their actions; a little penance may be approriate from time to time as well.

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Many of the religions that stress that you should forgive those who have harmed you also stress that the one who did the harm is obligated to make (or at least attempt) restitution. They are separate obligations.

We don't have to respond to every post. I had some problems with someone who recently came here. We worked it out.

But that doesn't mean that there won't be others. My intention at this point is to tread lightly with other ex-PAers who insulted me or my friends for expressing our point of view about PA.

Dolan,

I totally understand how you feel. Been there.

But if you will concentrate on the rest of us (who think you're tops, btw! LOL!) and ignore those who hurt you, my guess is that at some point, things will resolve themselves. Perhaps you'll get an apology before you even have time to feel uncomfortable.

PA made people so defensive. We've all said and done things we're sorry for. Perhaps AW is the place to finally lay it to rest.

Nancy

I don't think that CBM would ever be welcome over here. He has made too many enemies and burned too many bridges. BUt expecting SHemp to come over here is about as likely as the Pope converting to Judiasm. It aint gonna happen.

I freely acknowledge that everyone has a right to not like somebody or not openly welcome somebody. But I also point out that "UN" welcoming somebody makes us just as bad as PA. THis forum is different because everybody is allowed to participate equally. We have great well respected Authors such as Ed Williams and Dianna Hignutt and Jenna Glatzer along with the great talents and analytical insight of Dave K, Uncle Jim, Kevin and so many others. We also have the legal talent of the Absolute Predator "Jaws". There are also the "Writeophytes"(tm), AKA the AW newbies and PA converts. And then, well.. there's ME I don't have any good words to describe me; just a struggling wordslinger I guess. But we post here for a particular reason, a common goal, and that's to get the word out about Publish Ameriscam (Stale Twinke Creme sucking loathsome...).

With each new voice and talent, we are stronger and PA is weaker. IT is only logical to realize that not everyone will see everything the same way. GREAT MINDS DO NOT THINK ALIKE. But I humbly and respectfully suggest that barring some major misbehaviing or verbal abuse or haneous outrageous prior conduct, that everyone shoud be given a fair chance and judged by his/her actions here.

What does my opinion mean? Absolutely nothing, of course, this is Jenna's Playground, I'm just a grain in the Sandbox and greatful to be among so many diverse and talented people. Remember how tolerant this forum was with Gena? She was given over 140 posts in one day before she was dismissed back to the PA boards. AW is very generous and forgiving. Let us all follow that lead. We are free to like or dislike, but let's not let it distract form our overall mission and objective.

I wish everyone a great weekend I'm heading out of the office.. finally.