Remakes: Should I register it

IceCreamEmpress

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What I'd like to see is an explanation of what's required when, just for example's sake, a film like The Departed (2006) is pitched and proposed, whose storyline is taken directly from another original movie (Infernal Affairs (2002)).

That's an adaptation, and the original screenwriters for the Hong Kong movie have WGA credit along with the adaptor. Therefore, they got paid. One assumes the producers of the Hong Kong movie also got paid. The director was thanked in Martin Scorsese's Oscar speech.

On that topic, why on Earth was that movie called "Infernal Affairs" in English? It has nothing to do with either the movie or the original Cantonese title.
 
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kullervo

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...And even Shakespeare would have been nowhere without Ovid and Petrarch, but they were in the public domain...

A couple of points:

1. The very act of writing without the necessary rights is a copyright violation, even if you never show it to anybody, ever. The minute you do show it to anybody, you are at risk of receiving a bitter cease-and-desist letter.

2. The farce and homage excuses used to function, one studio to another, in the days before sequels took over the world. These days studios do not want someone else poaching on their preserve, certainly not an outsider.
 

zeprosnepsid

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On that topic, why on Earth was that movie called "Infernal Affairs" in English? It has nothing to do with either the movie or the original Cantonese title.


From Wikipedia: "The Chinese title means "the non-stop path", a reference to Avici, the lowest level of hell in Buddhism. The English title combines the US law enforcement term 'internal affairs' with a reference to Dante's Inferno."

Dante's Inferno is the closest Western equivalent to their being 'levels' of hell.
 

NikeeGoddess

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But keep in mind that if yours is produced and earns big bucks, the lawyers will come into the picture to prove how you stole all those elements from Funhouse.
my point is to make those elements your own as well. or at least different enough that no one can really make this claim. there are so many flicks out there with similar elements anyway. the writer's guild has a formula to determine or suggest copyright infringement.

anyhoo - here you can find all those old (public domain) flicks that are available for rewrites.
http://www.publicdomaintorrents.com/ hit the movie categories on the left to search for titles.
 

benbradley

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Trade Dress

As an aside to this thread:
...And a list of 'public domain characters' - which does NOT address 'trademark' or 'tradedress' issues.
I was about to ask what 'tradedress' is, as neither Wikipedia nor m-w.com finds that word, but Google tells me it's actually "Trade Dress" and there is indeed a Wikipedia article on the topic as well as several law sites describing it, and (if you're into this stuff like I am) they provide some interesting reading. I've often heard of "look and feel" (as one site describes it), and of course seen 'knockoff' products in supermarkets that might or might not infringe on the intellectual property rights of national-brand products, but somehow I'd never seen the word(s) before. <Spock voice>Fascinating.</>

Again, it's two words - Trade Dress.
 

kullervo

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When you sell a script you go through a process called Annotations, in which you go through the script element-by-element and declare where you got the idea for every character, setting, action, etc. You must either swear that everything is 100% original with you, or that you hold the rights. Yes, even to those "changed but inspired by" elements.

Once you have declared all this, you sign an agreement to hold the studio harmless for any and all claims to infringement. Which means that if anyone ever makes a claim against the movie, the legal responsibility to defend the studio against those claims is yours. They will mount a massive defense and bill you.

Getting a feeling for whether the writer in such a case will work again? Right. But it usually does not get that far. Studio people tend to recognize borrowings better than most folks, and are very paranoid about this.

And remember that, in the U.S., and with the exception of medical malpractice, anyone can sue anyone else at any time and for any reason.
 

shutterspeed

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1. The very act of writing without the necessary rights is a copyright violation, even if you never show it to anybody, ever. The minute you do show it to anybody, you are at risk of receiving a bitter cease-and-desist letter.

Forgive, but this seems possibly to be an overgeneralization. Maybe you could explain this a bit further (offhand, I can think of several arenas that might have been overstepped: educational, satirical, etc. purposes).
 

IceCreamEmpress

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From Wikipedia: "The Chinese title means "the non-stop path", a reference to Avici, the lowest level of hell in Buddhism.

Yes. I would have chosen "Straight to Hell" or "The Road to Hell" or "Highway to Hell".

The English title combines the US law enforcement term 'internal affairs' with a reference to Dante's Inferno."

I do understand where they got it (forgive me, I didn't make that clear above), I just think it's a horrible, horrible choice.
 

WriteKnight

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"Trade Dress" - yes, sorry for the typo. I'm married to an I.P. Attorney, so I get a lot of legal Intellectual Property jargon through osmosis - ;)

Aside from the legal sign-off that kullervo mentions, the studios have legal departments and 'errors and ommissions' insurance that looks at how things like brand names, proper names, and possible copyright infringements might come into play. It's a mine-field for sure.
 

kullervo

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Forgive, but this seems possibly to be an overgeneralization. Maybe you could explain this a bit further (offhand, I can think of several arenas that might have been overstepped: educational, satirical, etc. purposes).

Copyright attaches automatically to the production of a created work. Registering your copyright merely expands some of your legal rights under copyright. Because the copyright attaches at the moment of creation, so does copyright infringement.
 

shutterspeed

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Copyright attaches automatically to the production of a created work. Registering your copyright merely expands some of your legal rights under copyright. Because the copyright attaches at the moment of creation, so does copyright infringement. Today 10:32 AM

Right. But my point was, I'm not so sure one would have to worry about copyright infringement simply by writing something based on a protected work. Isn't the copyright mainly to guard against commercialization and exhibition of a registered work? If no one sees the work, then no harm, no foul, eh?

I can also think of additional areas that would be protected for someone to use/adapt/write about a protected work: namely, the areas of education (fair use clause) and parody.
 

kullervo

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1. It does not matter if anyone sees it, ever. The infringement is a fact the moment the work is executed.

2. Fair use and parody have been getting more and more restrictive over time. Fair use applies only to the use of a small portion of original material in its original execution, and depends on the nature of the use. Ten seconds of a movie used in a news broadcast will be fine due to the protection of speech in the public interest. The same ten seconds used during a broadcast television show will not be protected, since it is commercial speech. Parody is increasingly difficult. A studio now views many more movies and programs as having sequel or series potential. Allowing someone to make fun of a property essentially kills sequel potential. If there is a parody to be done, they will do it themselves.

Essentially, these issues must be addressed with an entertainment attorney on a case-by-case basis. Copyrighted material held by corporations is a complex issue. Congress often extends copyright for individual properties like Mickey Mouse and Goodnight Moon. Movie and television productions must also comply with international copyright laws. During World War II, Axis nations did not observe copyright on Allied nation productions. As a result, they have extended copyrights on those works for the duration of that war. There are also rights issues based on the nature of the use of a work. If you buy the rights on the song "Tea for Two," your price doubles if your characters dance along to the song.

Case by case. It takes an experienced entertainment attorney to even understand the depth and breadth of the issues involved.
 

IceCreamEmpress

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It does not matter if anyone sees it, ever. The infringement is a fact the moment the work is executed.

Yes, but it's a tort, not a crime, so in the US at least, you aren't going to be held accountable unless the intellectual property holder chooses to do so through the civil court system.

Now I'm loving the idea of someone shouting "It's a victimless tort!" in self-justification.
 

zeprosnepsid

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2. Fair use and parody have been getting more and more restrictive over time.

Fair use has actually gotten less restrictive in the past couple years. PBS news shows and documentaries as well as major Documentarians such as Michael Moore do not pay for the rights to anything and function under the fair use doctrine. A new set of guidelines has recently been drawn up in the documentary community by which many have decided to follow. In 2003, LA Plays Itself could not get distributed because it didn't pay for the rights to itself film clips. But in 2006, This Film Is Not Yet Rated did get distributed without paying for the rights for its clips, which has opened the door to more Distributors being open to buying and distributing fair use Documentaries.

This has nothing to do with writing a screenplay though. As you note, Fair Use only applies in certain situations -- where you are educating and informing the public. It used to only apply to the news, but it's been opening up a lot in the past few years when it comes to Documentaries.

But once again, this doesn't help anyone writing screenplays....
 

nmstevens

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Just for clarification purposes, since copyright law seems to be among the most misunderstood and asked about items.

Any chance the IRS had a hand in drafting copyright laws?

Well, part of the reasons for the misunderstanding is that the law itself has changed over the last fifty years or so, and changed in significant ways.

Part of the reasons for those changes is that copyright law in the U.S. and in Europe are not the same -- thus for a long time things that were in the public domain here might very well still be under copyright in Europe.

That might not make much difference for a book, back in 1922. But once you get into the latter part of the twentieth century, and especially into the world of media that have substantial international presence and remain in constant release (especially after the advent of television) -- that situation became more and more problematic for everybody.

We needed to move in a direction of consistent international copyright -- and since European copyright laws were substantially more generous than ours -- our laws began to shift in the direction of granting longer copyright terms -- and also *back-granting* rights to those works that had gone into the public domain.

So you had a situation when works that had gone public actually reverted back to being under copyright (you want to talk about a mess).

As for exceptions -- they haven't changed much, but what constitutes a valid use of of one of those exceptions is always going to open to interpretation.

Carol Burnett always used to do those movie spoofs on her show -- which were obviously supposed to fall under the fair use parody exception.

Except in one case (I forget which) somebody sued, claiming that the parody took too much -- that it was too close to the original to qualify for the fair use exception and they won and the show had to pay.

So the line is never absolute and it is never obvious when you cross it -- until you do.

That, ultimately, is always what the courts are going to be for.

NMS
 

dpaterso

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1. It does not matter if anyone sees it, ever. The infringement is a fact the moment the work is executed.
Question that's been niggling at me -- and if it's already been asked and covered in this thread, apologies -- how come it's OK to write specs for current TV shows, as writing samples?

-Derek
 

kullervo

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Question that's been niggling at me -- and if it's already been asked and covered in this thread, apologies -- how come it's OK to write specs for current TV shows, as writing samples?

-Derek

That's one of those "that's the way it has to happen" exceptions. And everyone knows you can't go out and sell the episode to another production entity and have it made and profit by it.
 

zeprosnepsid

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Question that's been niggling at me -- and if it's already been asked and covered in this thread, apologies -- how come it's OK to write specs for current TV shows, as writing samples?

It's because it's a writing sample you are not going to sell it. It's essentially private. It only becomes a problem if it's public/published or you make money from it.

But you can infringe on all the copyright you want as long as it's for private use.

And you can always write something based on copyright materials and show it as a sample. The guy who wrote Alien Vs. Predator didn't have the rights to either but sold it and the company got/had the rights. I don't suggest this, but it's possible.

*

I agree with NMS that it's gotten more restrictive. When Kevin Smith sold Clerks in 1994 it showed theatrically even though they never got the rights for all the trademarks and logos shown in the store (Doritos, Pepsi, etc...). They never got sued either. But a few years ago at Sundance, two very high profile movies got dropped for not having all their releases and paperwork. One was Strangers With Candy, which did get released by another distributor, but was dropped by it's original distributor because of this.
 

Mystery Man

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I'm working on a remake of a 1962 western that's a lot of people are not familiar with. Is it a good idea to register it as long as I note the original author/s?

Why not simply take the idea that attracted you to the story in the first place and go in your own (different) direction with it?
 

Mystery Man

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This is really the best advice. Find the themes underpinning the story, and create your own.

That's what I'm about to do with my next novel (after I finish the script I'm writing now). I got the idea from a twenty-year-old foreign movie which I've never seen but I've read reviews of and I'm going to take the basic plot and run with it in my own direction and make it all mine. That way you don't have to worry about copyright or anything like that because it's your own story with your own characters.
 

zeprosnepsid

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Yeah, I do this a lot actually. And so do a lot of other filmmakers. There are only so many storylines in this world and plenty of people steal their basic concepts and then make it their own.