Contract Negotiation

saf1367 · Apr 30, 2008

I've been offered a publishing contract with a major legal publisher. As a first-time author, I'm not certain how to negotiate the contract because I'm not familiar with industry standards. The book is a niche legal publication that will be marketed to legal classrooms and the professional market.

I've been offered a $2,000 advance and $1,000 grant. Is this ridiculously low? I'd never heard of a grant before but it is a one-time payment that does not offset royalty payments.

I've been offered tiered royalties based on net receipts. The royalties start at 12% and progress to 15%, based on number of books sold. Should I negotiate these terms or be satisfied with what they've offered? The book will retail for around $40. I'm not happy with royalties on net receipts but I'm told that the publisher will not budge on this issue.

I've also heard that you can research a publisher's past advances and royalties. Where would I find this information?

Thanks for any advice you can offer!

gdaniel · May 1, 2008

Textbook publishing offers much lower advances, traditionally, than trade book publishing, and grants also are fairly common in textbook publishing. Royalties on net receipts are also common, but I would try to push back a bit and get them a few points higher if possible. You aren't going to find a particular publisher's past advances anywhere (I'm an agent and should know). Congrats on the offer!

saf1367 · May 2, 2008

Thanks for the info gdaniel. I wasn't aware of those differences between textbook and tradebook publishing.

aka eraser · May 2, 2008

I know nothing about textbook publishing but one of the things I negotiated in my contract was the level at which the higher royalties kicked in. I had the thresholds lowered.

I'd like to see Medievalist or someone else who's published in the scholarly field chime in on this.

Don't sign for at least a few days. Hopefully, more brains will be along to be picked.

jennontheisland · May 2, 2008

Have you had a lawyer look at the contract? I know cash is what most people look at first with a contract, but it's worth the money to have someone familiar with the laws that govern this kind of contract check the rest of it.

scope · May 2, 2008

I fully agree with gdaniel, and would only add that you don't do anything that in the remotest degree might jeopardize the offer.

You are a first time writer and the most important thing is that you get published. From that point on you have something significant to put in your queries and proposals, and will have established an audience and genre you can refer to. All of this is worth its weight in gold.

Coming from an educational publisher, the offer you received as a first timer is decent. Of course try to get a bit more, but be gentle. Get Published.

Deleted member 42 · May 4, 2008

That sounds odd to me, especially the royalties on net part. I'd want to look closely at the contract, get the publisher's definition, preferably in writing, of what "net receipts" means--including the various discounts they give to booksellers.

I'd also want to look closely at exactly what rights you are giving the publisher--do they include electronic rights, for example? Legal publishers frequently do include them, without pointing that out to the author.

If you've got a contract offer in hand, it's pretty easy to find an agent--I don't know one who does legal publishing, though. You might try the Waterside agency, to see if they're interested.

I'd also be very cautious about how you respond to the publisher--you don't want to be seen as antagonistic, but you might explain that you're new to all this and have some questions.

But do get yourself a reputable agent--one who will readily give you names of current clients and lists of currently available books they agented.

Sheryl Nantus · May 4, 2008

for GOD'S sake, don't go on the net!!!

I just discovered that my $12.95 book only gives me a royaltiy of $0.63 cents when it's sold through Ingram's after everyone else takes their cut...

DON'T DO IT!!!

saf1367 · May 4, 2008

Thanks for all of the advice. I have not had a lawyer review the contract although I am seriously considering it.

In terms of net receipts, the publisher claims that the majority of the books would be sold to legal bookstores and professional associations at full price. Maybe they are just telling me this to get me to sign.

They also want all rights. The copyright would be registered in the publisher's name not mine. They won't budge on this issue. Although I am not happy with this provision, I am inclined to take Scope's advice and take this offer just to get the publishing credit.

Another newbie question: Medievalist, since I already have a contract, what could an agent offer other than help with contract negotiation?

Deleted member 42 · May 4, 2008

saf1367 said:
They also want all rights. The copyright would be registered in the publisher's name not mine. They won't budge on this issue. Although I am not happy with this provision, I am inclined to take Scope's advice and take this offer just to get the publishing credit.

I'd run far far away. If it were me, I'd think that there are other publishers; if one wants the book, another will too. There are lots of ways to get publishing credits that don't involve giving away rights. This is a work-for-hire contract, and given the potential market, I don't know that it's in your best interests to sign. I'd think really really hard.

saf1367 said:
Another newbie question: Medievalist, since I already have a contract, what could an agent offer other than help with contract negotiation?

Get a better deal, make sure you only sell first time publication rights, that you keep copyright, and that you're benefitting from your work--which is as it should be.

scope · May 4, 2008

I really think you have to trust you gut on this one. Only you know the publisher and what they are capable of doing with your book. There are many things which only you can and shoud take into consideration. I do think it's worth the money to have an intellectual rights attorney go over the contract for loopholes and to give advice.

I can't disagree with anything said by Medievalist, however there are always extenuating circumstances and situations. Take me. The first book I wrote I sold ALL rights in any way shape and form to a very major publisher. I knew what I was doing and exacted a ridiculously high guaranteed dollar advance and very generous royalty rates on anything they sold in any form and in all markets. The book went on to sell millions of copies and was translated into over 40 languages and sold throughout the world. It stayed in print for 35 years. Go figure!

My only point is that every case is different, and sometimes what looks very wrong may be very right. I don't know about your situation, and only you can measure all the variables.

Good luck.

susangpyp · May 9, 2008

If you go with a "net" price on royalties, agree to a floor price, meaning not less than $x. You can state it as "net price" or "x" (your floor price) , whichever is higher.

saf1367 · May 12, 2008

susangpyp said:
If you go with a "net" price on royalties, agree to a floor price, meaning not less than $x. You can state it as "net price" or "x" (your floor price) , whichever is higher.

How do I determine an appropriate floor price? The book will retail at approximately $40.00.

The publisher has agreed to raise the proposed royalties, quadriple my grant monies and make a few other significant concessions which makes me believe they may agree to a floor price. However, I don't want to be too aggressive.

Triomferus · May 13, 2008

I just wanted to A) bump this for saf1367, and B) thank everyone who posted their piece. This thread is worth its weight in gold.

saf1367 · Jun 4, 2008

Thanks for the words of wisdom. After negotiating my first contract I have the following advice:

1. Consult an experienced contracts attorney.

I took the advice here and had a lawyer review the contract. She brought up some good negotiating points I would not have thought of (and I'm a lawyer myself). I would advise anyone considering a publication contract to have it reviewed by experienced legal counsel, especially if you don't have an agent.

2. Aim high.

Don't be afraid to ask for what you want. Surprisingly, the publisher agreed to most of my proposed revisions and made several signicant concessions.

LC123 · Jun 14, 2008

What were the negotiating points that your lawyer brought up and that you had changed? I'm a textbook author too, and your original offer is similar to what mine was. I was encouraged by the publisher to have a lawyer review the contract, but I didn't, as I didn't think it was necessary and was satisfied with what I got.

I still am satisfied (absent being told how much better your negotiated contract is, lol), as they're doing an amazing job of selling it. But I'm shopping another book now and am wondering if I should have done something different.

LC123 · Jun 14, 2008

<< I'd run far far away. If it were me, I'd think that there are other publishers; if one wants the book, another will too. There are lots of ways to get publishing credits that don't involve giving away rights. >>

I'm sure this is a really stupid question, but what do you mean, don't give away rights? I gave all rights to my publisher. What would I do with them? My book is an expensive, heavily illustrated, four-color that is marketed mostly to colleges for a "101" class. If the publisher weren't marketing it, I sure wouldn't be.

LC123 · Jun 14, 2008

I just pulled out my contract. Should I have negotiated this more? How badly does this suck?

FWIW, it's a major NY house. I trusted (and still do) that they would deal square with me.

Royalties are based on net receipts, 10% of the first 2,500 units sold, 12% for the next 2,500 units sold, and 15% for all sales over 5,000 units.

Net receipts are described as: "gross receipts by the Publisher from all sales less any itemized taxes, interest, finance charges, insurance, packing, shipping and transportation costs and less any credits or refunds for returns and any credits, rebates, bad debts, value added taxes, discounts and promotional allowances to customers."

scope · Jun 14, 2008

I'm not a lawyer, and I wouldn't suggest that your contract is good, bad, or below average. However, from my layman's read the resultant dollar amount on which you'll be paid seems to give them license to deduct pretty much whatever they wish from the gross. How could you know what they are including in "....less any itemized taxes, interest, finance charges, insurance, packing, shipping and transportation costs and less any credits or refunds for returns and any credits, rebates, bad debts, value added taxes, discounts and promotional allowances to customers."

LC123 · Jun 14, 2008

You are right, it does give them license to deduct anything. Is that not a standard clause? Is it something everyone else takes a pen to, or asks for the aforementioned floor to help combat it?

happyslob · Jun 26, 2008

So glad I found this thread, because I'm involved in negotiations right now, too!

LC123 · Jun 26, 2008

happyslob said:
So glad I found this thread, because I'm involved in negotiations right now, too!

Well, don't be too glad, because it's been largely ignored, lol.

Looks like I may be back into negotiating myself. Last week I sent queries out for another textbook and I just got an email today from an editor at a major house wanting to discuss it.

How much loyalty do you all have to your current houses? Do you give them an advantage or do you negotiate anew with everyone equally?

Dantes · Jun 26, 2008

How about bringing in an agent at this point? Lots of times agents are contacted only after a contract is on the table. It's easy money for them and might be a smart move for you, sort of like telling an interrogating officer that you're not going to talk without a lawyer present.

An agent might know of some other publishers that could be interested and then maybe drive an auction. That's when the advance goes from dirt-bottom to something decent. If the publisher already quadrupled your grant, etc., it sounds like you have a marketable product and were clearly low-balled. An agent would recognize it immediately.

Good luck and congrats.

LC123 · Jun 26, 2008

How does one find an agent, and what do they charge? Looks like I'll be bringing a publisher to the table soon. I've never used an agent before, despite having two other books published. Would the benefit really outweigh the charge? A large advance is not an issue to me because I'll eventually get that money via earnings anyhow (at least, historically I have). The grant would be more of an issue to me. Would going with an IP lawyer be just as good an option?

scope · Jun 26, 2008

Having had two published books to your credit, you must know that an agent would be desirable for a published author. For many reasons. However, you may have a bit of a problem since agents don't want to handle writers in the educational market. Rarely do educational publishers offer any advances, and their royalty percentages are relatively low. Of course there are exceptions. Some educational books sell in huge quantity and make up for this. That leads me to ask you something I find puzzling. I'm not questioning what you said, only confirming that I understand you correctly. You say that you're getting 10% to 15% royalties from an educational textbook publisher, is that right? If so, those royalty percentages are tremendous. Normal is about 5% or so.

Contract Negotiation

saf1367

gdaniel

saf1367

aka eraser

Fish Whisperer

jennontheisland

the world is at my command

scope

Commonsensical Maverick

Deleted member 42

Sheryl Nantus

Holding out for a Superhero...

saf1367

Deleted member 42

scope

Commonsensical Maverick

susangpyp

saf1367

Triomferus

Lightbringer

saf1367

LC123

LC123

LC123

scope

Commonsensical Maverick

LC123

happyslob

LC123

Dantes

aka Greg

LC123

scope

Commonsensical Maverick