Writing Poetry: Beginners 'How To'

The Ode Less Travelled - Stephen Fry. Read it. Now.

Unfortunately, I am not anal when it comes to poetry. I just let fly and see what happens. My only rule is; THERE ARE NO RULES.

I'm pretty anal when it comes to doing things *right* rather than just doing things

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KTC said:

Unfortunately, I am not anal when it comes to poetry. I just let fly and see what happens. My only rule is; THERE ARE NO RULES.

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I'm in between these two positions. Poems are not software where they crash the compiler or generate syntax errors if they aren't exactly *right*. But they are not random beach debris flung around by a hurricane either.

MY suggestions for two must-read books are:

The Poetry Home Repair Manual: Practical Advice for Beginning Poets by Ted Kooser

and

Break, Blow, Burn: Camille Paglia Reads Forty-three of the World's Best Poems


One gives great advice and writing poems and the other gives great advice on reading poems.

The reason I recommend the Stephen Fry book is because he is stupendously intelligent and not at all patronising. He's on my fantasy dinner guest list because he must be one of the most entertaining people it is possible to know. The book's a quick read and funny too. He makes it seem so easy, which is a gift in itself. I can't praise the man enough. I adore him and only wish I were his type. Bit too female, sadly.

plnelson said:

But they are not random beach debris flung around by a hurricane either.

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I gotta say it...I LOVE that description...THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT MY POEMS ARE! To a tee... There's a hurricane in my head...the poems are the debris dashed upon the rocks. I love it. I know that's not what you were aiming at...you were saying what they weren't...but that is exactly how I see my poems. Man...I love that.

All the books suggested should be useful, as might Laurence Perrine's "Sound and Sense"
which is an excellent text, now in it's 50th Anniversary Edition, or Judson Jerome's
"The Poet and The Poem", which is available, at least in an early edition, on-line at: http://www.poetrycritic.com/poetry_....em.html, (both of which are excellent references for studying the techniques and tools that Poets use).

Beyond that, READ! READ! READ! READ! and READ some more, starting with all the Masters, (probably via Anthologies such as "The Pocket Book of Modern Verse edited by Oscar Williams" or "The Voice That Is Great Within Us" edited by Hayden Curruth), and then move on to Contemporary Poets through journals, web sites and any number of Popular Anthologies, determining what you like and analyzing your favorites to determine why you like them and how they were put together.

After that, you just Write ahd Write and Write until YOU'RE satisfied with what you are writing, and you'll be on your way.

Write On,

Jim Hoye, (JRH)

plnelson said:

I'm in between these two positions. Poems are not software where they crash the compiler or generate syntax errors if they aren't exactly *right*. But they are not random beach debris flung around by a hurricane either.

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Very, very well said.

I careen around the area between these two borders, trying to find a voice that fits.

What an excellent thread. Thanks for starting it, Sc00t. If you turn 21 in Sydney, I'll chip in for the SPPBF when you're here.

Now I know what goes on my Christmas list.

Read what you Love and write what you feel.

Read lots of poetry and write, write, write. Poetry is the inner experience of an outbound emotion. imo

Sc00t said:

Also, why do poets
seemingly insert line breaks at random, this part
of my post being an example of such. Is it
a specific technique I should know about?

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It's not random. In poetry you don't write sentences the way you would in a novel. Filler words and duplications have to go. A poem will generally be much more tightly packed than a sentence.

So images and metaphor end up standing right next to each other, and the reader is invited to see, hopefully, the meaning and beauty in each one. Formatted as sentences, they can look overbearing and confusing. Placing each image on its own line makes for a much easier and enjoyable read.

KTC said:

I gotta say it...I LOVE that description...THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT MY POEMS ARE! To a tee... There's a hurricane in my head...the poems are the debris dashed upon the rocks. I love it. I know that's not what you were aiming at...you were saying what they weren't...but that is exactly how I see my poems. Man...I love that.

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Your poems are in the air, not on the ground. They're the leaves thrown upwards in a storm.

I know, I know, I sound pretentious. So kick my head in.

Priene said:

Your poems are in the air, not on the ground. They're the leaves thrown upwards in a storm.

I know, I know, I sound pretentious. So kick my head in.

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I won't kick you. I will just thank you sincerely for a great compliment. Thank you!

Priene said:

"Also, why do poets
seemingly insert line breaks at random, this part
of my post being an example of such. Is it
a specific technique I should know about?
"
It's not random. In poetry you don't write sentences the way you would in a novel. Filler words and duplications have to go. A poem will generally be much more tightly packed than a sentence.

So images and metaphor end up standing right next to each other, and the reader is invited to see, hopefully, the meaning and beauty in each one. Formatted as sentences, they can look overbearing and confusing. Placing each image on its own line makes for a much easier and enjoyable read.

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I think the OP's question is a legitimate one. Many poems/poets employ typographical conventions that really are indefensible on any content or structural grounds, and when I've been in poetry groups and workshops and we've asked the poet to explain their choice they were often unable to do so.

A good test of this is to listen to the poet read the work aloud. If their own reading of it does not respect or acknowledge their typographical choices, e.g., line breaks, then it calls into doubt whether it serves any meaning or purpose. (and FWIW I agree with Robert Pinsky that poems are meant to be read aloud)

It is precisely because poems are so small and compact that every last detail - every word, every punctuation mark and capitalization, and every linebreak, indentation, and whitespace, counts, and has to be chosen carefully by the poet.

That doesn't mean it has to be obvious to the reader. I recently wrote a poem with 5-line stanzas. The poem was well-received in my poetry group but someone questioned why I used a particular word in one stanza. I pointed out that the word "haiku" appeared in the first line of that stanza, and the stanza consisted of two overlapping haikus (5-7-5-7-5) , so I chose the word for its syllable count. But the poem "worked" perfectly well even if no one "got" the fun I was having with that stanza.

Hi Scoot!


"Draw a crazy picture,
Write a nutty poem,
Sing a mumble-gumble song,
Whistle through your comb.
Do a loony-goony dance
'Cross the kitchen floor,
Put something beautiful in the world
That ain't been there before."

-Shel Silverstein

..Good luck man

Hi Scoot,
Read some current poets, like Charles Bukowski, Lucille Clifton, Raymond Carver, Seamus Heaney, Yusef Komunyakaa, Thomas Lux, Franz Wright.

Find poems here: http://www.poets.org/

Then sit down with a pen and paper and see what happens!

"Also I like the concept of writing poems in similar ways, chronomatically, etc. etc. (i.e. applying number sequences to the syllables per line) Is this a specific technique in itself, and if so does it have a name I can look it up under?"

look under "meter" and "rhyme scheme."

C.bronco said:

Hi Scoot,
Read some current poets, like Charles Bukowski, Lucille Clifton, Raymond Carver, Seamus Heaney, Yusef Komunyakaa, Thomas Lux, Franz Wright.

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I hope I'm still considered "current" after I'm dead. Charles Bukowski died in 1994; Raymond Carver died in 1988. I don't know about the others although Franz Wright appeared to still be alive when I saw him read in Maine a year ago.

KTC said:

I gotta say it...I LOVE that description...THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT MY POEMS ARE!

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KTC, I agree. What fun to let the debris rip from your head and lay out there waiting to be swept along by the breeze.

ScOOt: In a nutshell

• follow the rules if you are writing something where mechanics counts (Haiku = syllable count)
• rhyming poetry - read it out loud. the cadence should flow smoothly rather than bucking around like driving a 'stick-shift' for the first time. if it's forced, then it's not quite right.
• free verse is the great equalizer, but there is good & bad. Some is well-defined; some cleverly shrouded and some so obscure only the writer knows what the point is

My opinion, (with which many will not agree and that's ok) poetry is written for the poet. When you read it you either like it or you don't. That can apply to both well-written and badly-written poetry. You can be critiqued on mechanics or clarity or style, but no one has the right to tell you that what you feel and put out there on the page has no value.

Write is a verb!! Do it.

Sc00t said:

do you have any information on how to write poetry in general?

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pick up some writing device and touch it to some writing surface. manipulate language.

do it over and over again until it makes the hair on someone's neck stand on end.

it's quite easy and exceedingly hard.

plnelson said:

I think the OP's question is a legitimate one. Many poems/poets employ typographical conventions that really are indefensible on any content or structural grounds, and when I've been in poetry groups and workshops and we've asked the poet to explain their choice they were often unable to do so.

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It is a legitimate question, and one I was attempting to answer. It often pops up on boards, and free form poets generally don't seem to talk about it or want to justify their choices.

I'm not saying all poets use new lines well. I'm just offering an explanation of how a good poet might use them.

Sc00t:

This thread from Eratosphere is the one I use as I study and write haiku.

It seems that I've finally found the proper place for this, so I'm posting it here. "Technically". this is not a "Poem", but "Didactic Verse", based on some of my "Critical Essays" which can, hopefully, lead to some discussion and outline the tools that newcomers can use in perfecting their own craftsmanship.

Enjoy.

*******

Writing Poetry?

Poems flow freely from my pen,
For words obey my call,
And if you buy that fantasy,
You don't know Poems at all.

Poetry's an Art, a Craft
A gift too great to spurn,
But, writing it's no simple thing
It's a Skill that must be learned.

'Tis not enough to simply spew
Those things you sense inside,
Based on feelings, or based on thoughts,
That others may deride,

For there are few who have the gift
Of seeing as others do.
And if they can't perceive your mind,
They're bound to miss your truths.

Your goal is to communicate.
Your message must be clear,.
And private thoughts and images
May often seem obscure.

You have to organize your thoughts;
Know what you want to do;
Select the images you need;
Make plans and follow through,

And the Principles the Masters used
Can guide you on your quest,
For if they're used with discipline,
They'll help you do your best.

First you'll need a solid theme
To help define your goal,
Embodied in a subject,
That gives your work its soul.

Thoughts and images come next,
That bring your theme to life,
And they must be compatible,
Or else they'll bring you strife.

Cohesiveness and clarity
Should be your favorite tools,
For they can truly show your skills
And bring your message through.

And when your "Poem" come to it's end,
Whatever that might be,
The reader should perceive a whole,
United and complete.

But, a few things must be mentioned,
As pitfalls to avoid,
Like using images for their own sake,
Or, setting meaning aside.

Nor, should you use words just to demonstrate
Erudition or verbal skills.
No one cares how much you know,
And it's doubtful that they ever will.

And, the scope and depth of what you write
Must be considered first,
For they define the difference
T'wixt Poetry and Verse.

Nor does it matter what form you choose,
Be it Free Verse or Rhyme.
As long as meaning is conveyed,
It can last, transcending time.

And, always seek the "universal".....
For the "personal" bears little weight,
And the goal is e'er to speak to all
In terms that can relate.

There may be no end to struggling
In making words your own,
But, now, at least, you can understand,
What it takes to make a Poem

Copyright © 4 Nov 2007 James R. Hoye

******

Write On,

Jim Hoye, (JRH)

P.S. As for Haiku, you might check out my "Haiku Primer For Beginners" in the Discussion Forum which can be found most easily by going to http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44292 For futher insight, you might also want to go to the following set of essays on writing and understanding Haiku at http://www.shadowpoetry.com/cgi-bin/spmb/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=10;t=3235