Sex Scenes in Historicals

wee said:

Who volunteers to get permission & then type it in?

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Hmmm....when you put it that way....

Wouldn't think we'd need permission to just discuss the book, though reproducing large sections of text might be problematic. I suppose we could just reference pages/paragraphs/first word of sentence, etc.

Since it was me opening my big mouth in the first place, I suppose I will have to give it a go (on a new thread, of course). Darn it, that means I'll have to read the first few chapters again!

But to be fair and offer balance, my wife LOVES the entire Outlander series and has devoured them all (she's the one who suggested I read it, since one of my HF novels has a Scottish MC). I respect her judgment, we just have different tastes on this one.

How would our critting a published novel differ from its being discussed in, say a school literature class? Not a violation of copyright is it--or if it is i've been guilty of it any number of times as a teacher.

That's just what I was wondering, Julie!

We don't have to look at whole chapters, but even just a few paragraphs or so. It occurred to me that, when we look at individual scenes on SYW, we are (unsurprisingly) much more critical of details than if we were to look at an entire book. I was wondering how some of the best-selling historical authors would fare if they were AW members and put under the scrutiny of our sharp-eyes readers in SYW!

Personally, although I think that Gabaldon is a good writer, I am one of those who thinks she could have used a strict editor to cut out about a third of each book out. Just superfluous scenes, unnecessarily lengthy descriptions, and the like.

I'd be into critting a few paragraphs, maybe one each taken from early, middle, and later works. I'd like to take a closer work at what she does right, as well as what she doesn't do so well. It would be good for my critting skills too, and interesting to see other peoples opinions. Will they all be sex scenes?

Yeah, Bourbon, I think this one's on you. Maybe get your wife to find the paragraphs for you if you can't bear to read 'em again? Grin.

Don't mean to sound sick, but I'd be interested in examining one of the rape scenes. I'd understand, however, if y'all decide not to.

Regarding copyright.

We can talk about it all day long. We can say "this is great!" or "this is drivel!" and no problems.

What you can't do is reproduce it without permission (unlikely to be granted).

It is perfectly reasonable that we could 'assign' passages for private reading & then discuss here, no problem. Just no quoting more than is necessary to make clear which line/paragraph you are referring to.


wee

Speaking of sex scenes in historicals, is anyone else reading Ken Follet's newest, "World Without End"? I think it does a pretty good job of handling sex scenes...at least I never found myself gagging or skimming ahead.

Doogs said:

Speaking of sex scenes in historicals, is anyone else reading Ken Follet's newest, "World Without End"? I think it does a pretty good job of handling sex scenes...at least I never found myself gagging or skimming ahead.

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Not yet, waiting for it to come to paperback. But I loved 'Pillars of the Earth', so I'm looking forward to it!

PastMidnight said:

Not yet, waiting for it to come to paperback. But I loved 'Pillars of the Earth', so I'm looking forward to it!

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You have more willpower than I do

I've got maybe 100 pages left, but I'm loving it so far. Some elements strike me as a bit...unlikely...at least with regards to the 14th century, but on whole a very refreshing read.

And I found out, to my utter shock, that the wife has never read "Pillars of the Earth", so I think we'll be buying the audiobook for our road trip to North Carolina in December.

pdr wrote:

"I think before you start adding sex scenes you need to check out"

Amen. I agree with girlyswot's caveats, but if I may go non-mainstream for a moment, the number of historical/fantasy/SF stories who have their characters stocked up on modern-day sex toys makes me wince. Historical/fantasy/SF sex toys, yes, but don't make me feel as though the characters took a car trip over to Blushing Pleasures before having sex.

Drasheny wrote:

"I'm currently planning a an erotic, soft-core S&M novel set in the 1920s. Certainly my characters don't have to be prudes because of the time period. On the contrary, the way the Fitzgeralds carried on makes modern rock stars look tame. However, I am still wrestling with how to approach the sex scenes in language and tone. My concern is that modern readers, especially erotica readers, expect a certain frankness in language that wouldn't be appropriate for that time period."

May I recommend, if you haven't already done so, that you search out the primary sources for that period? My Leather Research Reference Shelf includes links to a number of BDSM history sites. You might find "American Fetish" (which is an online scholarly treatise) and "Colors of Leather" (which has a timeline for publications in its "Scrapbook" section) to be especially helpful. The folks who run those sites might be able to give you additional help with the language issue.

DonnaDuck wrote:

"Women and men being 'friends' centuries ago, especially during the Puritan times or the Middle Ages, wasn't something that was seen."

Actually, if I recall my long-ago readings on the history of friendship correctly, the Middle Ages was a good period for public male-female friendships - much better than in later eras.

The popularity of opposite-gender and same-gender friendships, and their perceived connection with sexual attraction, has varied tremendously, not only in time but in location (and from individual to individual, as the comments above indicate). In Victorian America, romantic male friendships were still in fashion, whereas they had fallen largely out of fashion in England during the same period.