I really need to ask a question

eric11210

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OK, I need to ask a question. People here have been really nice and helpful to me in my writing and helping me figure out the details of what to do to make it better,

I just want to ask, honestly, do people here who have seen my work think that my stuff has potential or am I wasting my time? I ask because I've heard such varying opinions from different people.

I've been told by some that they enjoy my writing a great deal and they really feel like with a bit of tweaking my writing has serious potential and others have described it as "terrible" and one person even asked if I was a kid masquerading as an adult (I'm 33).

Besides just this one novel, I've been told in the past how much people enjoyed the writing I've done, so it's not just about this one piece of work.

Anyway, please be honest. If you've read my work, what I've posted, please tell me honestly if you feel I've been wasting my time or if what I've done is good.

Eric
 

Toothpaste

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I know you really just want a yes or no answer to this question, but it really isn't that simple. If let's say I said no, would that make you give up? I think that if it would then the answer is definitely no. Do you like writing? Do you need to write? And most importantly are you willing to work long and hard at it? To pay attention to the advice other people give you and try to evolve?
And will you be able to perservere through the rejection?

To ask if your work is good enough, is too difficult because good is subjective. Dan Brown is incredibly successful but many people don't think he's any good.

I'm sorry I couldn't really answer your question! As someone who herself really likes to just have a question answered and not taken into a whole new direction, I know it's annoying. Maybe someone else here can be more straightforward with you!
 

eric11210

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I know you really just want a yes or no answer to this question, but it really isn't that simple. If let's say I said no, would that make you give up? I think that if it would then the answer is definitely no. Do you like writing? Do you need to write? And most importantly are you willing to work long and hard at it? To pay attention to the advice other people give you and try to evolve?
And will you be able to perservere through the rejection?

To ask if your work is good enough, is too difficult because good is subjective. Dan Brown is incredibly successful but many people don't think he's any good.

I'm sorry I couldn't really answer your question! As someone who herself really likes to just have a question answered and not taken into a whole new direction, I know it's annoying. Maybe someone else here can be more straightforward with you!

Yeah, I appreciate the thought all the same. I mean, I know for instance David Handler doesn't loose sleep over people who think A series of unfortunate events is too dark and depressing. I know JK Rowling isn't in a fit because some people hate Harry Potter and think it's garbage (yes, I've heard both these comments).

That said, being told my work is "terrible" and being asked if I'm a child pretending to be an adult seemed quite over the top. Especially after I've heard from so many people that they liked what I write. So I was just really feeling kinda down about it. . .

Although the truth is, part of me is determined to prove them wrong and do an incredible job getting my novel published, then the people who like to dump on others can just eat crow. . .

OK, after all that rambling, I really just needed to say something about how I feel. . .

Eric
 

Toothpaste

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Dude, vent away. Sometimes we just need to get it out so we can move on. And the fact that what others have said have fueled the fire as opposed to extinguished it, well that is an excellent sign indeed!

I always like to quote Galaxy Quest in moments like these: Never give up! Never Surrender!
 

eric11210

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Dude, vent away. Sometimes we just need to get it out so we can move on. And the fact that what others have said have fueled the fire as opposed to extinguished it, well that is an excellent sign indeed!

I always like to quote Galaxy Quest in moments like these: Never give up! Never Surrender!

I had to laugh about that. Some people have accused my novel of sounding like a take off on Galaxy Quest (definitely not the case, but again, some people have nothing better to do than dump on others).

Still, anyone else, feel free to tell me your honest opinions. . .

Eric
 

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Still, anyone else, feel free to tell me your honest opinions. . .

My honest opinion? You can be the absolute best writer in the world - lots of published books, high volume of sales, awards, etc. - and you're never going to please everybody. Somebody somewhere won't like what you've written; and what one person loves about your work, someone else will absolutely hate. It's just a fact of life.

My suggestion? Don't let the naysayers get you down. Focus on the positive and don't let the negative get to you.
 

eric11210

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My honest opinion? You can be the absolute best writer in the world - lots of published books, high volume of sales, awards, etc. - and you're never going to please everybody. Somebody somewhere won't like what you've written; and what one person loves about your work, someone else will absolutely hate. It's just a fact of life.

My suggestion? Don't let the naysayers get you down. Focus on the positive and don't let the negative get to you.

Thanks. I did need to hear that even though I know it.

Eric
 

moondance

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and also bear in mind that people are never subjective - you'll have to develop a thick skin as a writer. The hurtful comments you've had (esp the one about masquerading as an adult) say more about the person who posted them than about your ability.

Pretty much anyone can have a real chance of success, but you have to be able to take constructive criticism and keep picking yourself up off the floor. Lots of talented writers never make it because they can't take the criticism.

I've always taken the attitude that there is always something new to learn. I gobble up feedback. Sometimes I agree with it, sometimes I don't, but fortunately I have had more positive comments than negative, so that in itself keeps me going.

Toothpaste, I agree with you in principle, but I also think we all need validation in a way. You have to have someone 'in your corner' - even if it's only ONE person saying 'you're great!' - otherwise it is easy to lose faith in yourself.

eric, do YOU think you're good? Are you willing to slog away, taking all advice on the chin and remaining good-humoured about it? If so, then you really stand a chance of making it.

We all need a pep talk now and then - this thread is yours!
 

skelly

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Someone asking you if you are a teen posing as an adult was merely going out of their way to make a vicious statement about your work. Even if your work WAS that poorly written or presented (which I don't believe, I have read through some of the stuff you have posted in SYW...just haven't had time to comment the last few days) a good reviewer would never make such a rude statement. There are some people (everywhere, not just here) who take a keen delight in demeaning other writers. They justify their actions with phrases like "Well, you posted it," and "I'm just being honest." I think a critique, even when it must necessarily be more negative than positive, can still be presented in a kind and encouraging manner. Just keep plugging at it, Eric. And keep putting your work out there for people to review. If somebody tries to nuke you, just thank them for their time and move on. Also, particularly on this board, make sure that you are giving at least two (more is better) critiques for every piece that you wish to post. You will do well, just keep at it.
 

PattiTheWicked

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Thing is, it doesn't really matter if anyone here likes your work or not. Most of the folks on this board are mature enough to provide constructive criticism that will provide you with some insight as to how to improve your writing skills.

I meet plenty of would-be writers who say "Well my MOM thinks it's the best thing she's ever read" or "I know I'm a good writer because I took eight different creative writing classes" when the fact is neither of those things really means jack $hit in the grand scheme of things.

If every person here told you that you sucked, would you stop writing? If every person here told you that you were the best writer EVER, would you stop trying to improve?

Do your best, never refuse to learn and grow, and eventually you may create a product that someone else wants to read.
 

johnrobison

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It's hard for me to say if anyone else's work is "no good" or "great." I know it can change quite a lot with effort on your part, though. My critic told me my stuff was junk in March of 2006. All sorts of things to do better, etc . . . . then everyone in the world was scrambling to get the contract to publish it just ten months later.

When I look at the beginnings, I can now understand what people said, and indeed that work is "junk" compared to the later work. How far does it go? Will this January's work be "junk" compared to next year, or is there a plateau?

I suggest you learn from what people say, and keep getting better, and one day - if you persist - you may cross the line and be deemed publishable by an editor somewhere.
 

eric11210

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Folks, I do appreciate the thoughts.

I think being asked if I was a kid pretending to be an adult is what really got under my skin. Criticism, fine. No problem. I've substantially reworked many pieces of my novel based on criticism, even when I felt that it wasn't entirely justified. If lots of people had a similar reaction, I've done it. I just was so furious at that remark. . .

Oh, and Patti, that is one thing I don't have to worry about. My mother is hypercritical of anything I do and rarely praises the work I show her, even when I've had dozens of other people tell me how much they enjoyed things I've done.

And I only took one creative writing course when I was a teenager, many years ago (if only it were true, that I really was a kid pretending to be an adult -- I'd definitely enjoy being a teenager more the second time around ;)).

Although in college I did have numerous professors who went out of their way to praise my work and tell me how much they enjoyed my writing. Does that count? :D

Eric
 

eric11210

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When I look at the beginnings, I can now understand what people said, and indeed that work is "junk" compared to the later work. How far does it go? Will this January's work be "junk" compared to next year, or is there a plateau?

Believe me, I know that to be true. I look back at the first draft of my novel, especially the first few chapters, and compare it to what I did in the second draft, and it's infinitely better. I expect I'll continue to re-work it until I feel it's ready to send to agents. . .

Eric
 

J. Weiland

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Although in college I did have numerous professors who went out of their way to praise my work and tell me how much they enjoyed my writing. Does that count? :D

Eric

All praise count. I had a professor who held some creative writing classes just for the fun of it. He was an expert on post-colonialism, more precisely 'Alchemy in post-colonial literature', and he liked my writing and was able to extract all sorts of stuff from it which I myself had missed, probably because I only wanted to tell a good story ;). I had been inspired by Chinua Achebe's Things Fall Apart, though. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that praise is good if it comes from people that read lots and varied. We all like to be praised.

So keep working on your dream, and you'll get there some day.
 

PattiTheWicked

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Oh, and Patti, that is one thing I don't have to worry about. My mother is hypercritical of anything I do and rarely praises the work I show her, even when I've had dozens of other people tell me how much they enjoyed things I've done.

I'm sorry to hear that. I was just commenting to a friend this morning how fortunate I have to have family and friends who support my writing. I consider myself really lucky to have that, because I know all too well that there are plenty of writers out there who don't get praise from the people they want it from the most.

eric said:
Although in college I did have numerous professors who went out of their way to praise my work and tell me how much they enjoyed my writing. Does that count? :D

Absodamnlutely. College professors don't get paid enough to blow smoke up your butt with false praise.
 

Azure Skye

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OK, I need to ask a question. People here have been really nice and helpful to me in my writing and helping me figure out the details of what to do to make it better,

I just want to ask, honestly, do people here who have seen my work think that my stuff has potential or am I wasting my time? I ask because I've heard such varying opinions from different people.

I've been told by some that they enjoy my writing a great deal and they really feel like with a bit of tweaking my writing has serious potential and others have described it as "terrible" and one person even asked if I was a kid masquerading as an adult (I'm 33).

Besides just this one novel, I've been told in the past how much people enjoyed the writing I've done, so it's not just about this one piece of work.

Anyway, please be honest. If you've read my work, what I've posted, please tell me honestly if you feel I've been wasting my time or if what I've done is good.

Eric

I haven't read your work so I can't and won't comment on that but I just stopped by to encourage you to stop doing this to yourself. Really.

Do you enjoy writing? Does it make you happy? If you answered yes to either of those, then you aren't wasting your time.

You will forever get varying opinions on your work. Everyone is different, has different tastes, moods, perspectives, experiences, and all will approach what they read based on that. I've read books by people who have been praised and worshipped but found it anything but praiseworthy. That doesn't mean it's bad; it means, it wasn't my taste. It's all subjective. So, don't worry about what other people think. If they give you something constructive to work with, consider it. If they just say it's bad but don't tell you why then forget about it.
 

Jamesaritchie

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If you believe those who praise your work, you're duty bound to believe those who criticize it. Honestly, nothing on earth means less that what the average person thinks of your writing. It's completely meaningless, no matter what they have to say.

If the person can represent your work, as in an agent, or can't write you a check for your work, as in an editor, then all you're getting is meaningless opinion.

I don't care how good your writing is, many will say it's awful. And I don't care how bad your writing is, many will say it's wonderful. You're crazy if you listen to either group. They're both wrong.

Praise and criticism mean only as much as the expertise of the person giving the opinion, and just about all the opinions out there are as meaningless as a fart in a whirlwind.
 

myscribe

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Honestly, you have to believe in yourself. You have to find out who you are as a writer. Take what will help you improve and forget the rest.

No one else can tell you if it is worth it to continue. You have to answer that for yourself. I believe it was the artist Van Gogh who only sold 1 painting in his lifetime, yet he was an incredible talent. You can't measure yourself by other's opinions or definitions of success. :Hug2:

...and just about all the opinions out there are as meaningless as a fart in a whirlwind.

Can I make this my new motto? (and I love you for saying it...) :LilLove:
 

Sassenach

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It's up to you. How much do you want it?

I read some of your submissions and my first reaction was that you have some good ideas but need to work on your voice and style. What I read was awkward and wordy.
 

eric11210

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Folks, first of all, I want to genuinely thank everyone for the kind encouragement. I really did appreciate it. I was pretty upset last night not because of criticism of my work (though it can be hard to take at times, I understand it's part of learning to write better) but because someone on a different forum insinuated that from my writing I must be a child pretending to be an adult.

In any event, I believe I had an epiphany this morning on my way to work. I was focused on the negative comments and it suddenly hit me to look at what people didn't comment on. It seemed virtually all the negative comments that I've heard revolved specifically around my present day time lines in my writing. People didn't specify that was where they saw a problem, but invariably, when people would say that there was a problem, it was part of those pieces that was quoted. No one quoted the future time line as being a point of weakness. Mind you, I'm not saying it couldn't improve also, but it was very telling that it was specifically the present day stuff people kept pointing out.

Especially telling for me was that someone pointed out to me that my MC refers to his principal always as principal Cheevy instead of Mr. Cheevy. When I thought about that, I realized where my problem likely lies.

The character of Kevin in my novel is based on me as a 12 year old boy. When I was that age, I was in this really crappy private school where we had a real life principal cheevy who really was incredibly one sided in his views and who always came down on me like I was evil incarnate. He was you will pardon the expression a nasty SOB and someone who I'm very glad to say had a nervous breakdown and died a few years ago.

For those who saw the earlier version of my first chapter, this principal threw me down a flight of stairs when I refused to turn over my walkman to him, just like the story I'd written of Kevin getting thrown down the stairs. With the exception of the story with Jeff, the incidents that happen to Kevin were incidents that happened to me as well.

When it occurred to me that those were the areas people were focusing on as weakest, I suddenly didn't feel as bad.

It wasn't so much that my writing as a rule is not well done or unbelievable (not that I don't think I can learn more and improve mind you). It was that I was still angry at this principal and angry at my parents for forcing me to go back to that school (my father even made me apologize because he was so desperate for me to be in that school instead of public school) and so the whole piece came out as my anger at these people instead of pure dispassionate writing. The thing that tipped me off was the Principal Cheevy thing. In real life, the principal who did these things called himself Rabbi. So when I translated that into my story and Kevin was in a secular school, Rabbi became Principal and of course, I'd never think to have called him mister because I'd never have thought at that time to refer to this guy as mister instead of rabbi (it's one of those things that just ingrained on you).

OK, so I'm getting into a bit of psychobabble here, but bottom line, it made me realize that if I can rework those pieces to make them more like what a normal person would be like, not like my nut-ball principal of the time, I'll have fixed the most pressing concerns. . .

Anyway, my thanks for everyones thoughts once again. I'm taking a week off from the project and then will come back with a fresh set of eyes to try to tackle it again and fix the problems.

Eric
 

Dancre

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Did you see this thread, eric?

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58247

It deals with Om Third person POV and has great info. I think it might help you. And don't let others' ignorant views bother you. Some folks enjoy putting others down in order to make themselves feel good. I still think you're onto something with your novel. You just need to clean it up a bit. Hang in there, ok? It'll be fine. And I'm glad you've had some breakthrough.

kim
 

Jimmer

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I think writing is something you do to please yourself. You do it because you love the power of arranging words in just the right way to achieve your goal. You do it because when you stumble upon the perfect simile after wracking your brain until 2 in the morning it makes you lean back and smile. You do it because you find yourself jumping out of bed in the middle of the night, forced to get to your computer to jot down an amazing plot twist you'd just thought of. You do it because if you didn't write your stories and dream up your characters you feel you just might burst.

Of course, you will need lots of help, lots of outside opinions (many of which you should discard as unhelpful), lots of redrafts, but in the end you will do it because it makes you happy. You may or may not be successful in a monetary sense, but that's okay. Very few attain that level. Let's say less than .1% of those who try. Think about that.

If you choose money and fame as your yardstick, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. If you think one needs to have some special writing gift from birth in order to forge ahead, you might have your priorities askew. Writing is one part talent and one part determination. You can always be better tomorrow than you are today. It's not about genetics. It's about perspiration.

In one of the all time worst pop songs Rick Nelson sung, "You can't please everyone so you've got to please yourself."

My advice? Write because you must. Be passionate. The rest will take care of itself.
 

eric11210

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Thanks again.

I'm pretty much over the whole thing. I was just very upset that night when I wrote this. I believe I do have a good handle on how to make my work better and I've had a bunch of people who read it and liked where I was going, so I think I just let a couple of nasty comments get under my skin.

Eric