The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

By comparison for PA's Christian authors

Thanks Sarashay. I think this is worth repeating over and over again. Since PA also goes after the Christian market, I would like to point out how a small Christian niche publisher treats a two first-time co-authors -- one from a small town in Northern Ontario and the other from a small town in Nova Scotia. (In fact, we have some towns in our respective areas that lack not only a McDonald's but a Tim Horton's as well.) Oh, and while SAMP is one of the largest Catholic publishers in the world, please keep in mind that my co-author and I had signed with Servant, which was a small publisher until SAMP bought it out.

They gave us $US 1,000.00 EACH as an advance - not $1:00

They gave my co-author 25 and me 50 free copies (plus single free copies of other titles we found interesting) - not 2.

They pay for copyright registration - not us.

They send out hundreds of review copies automatically, another couple hundred based upon their market research, and about a hundred that my co-author and I requested.

They list the book on every online site AND ensure, via its catalogue and salesforce and distribution channels, that it's in hundreds of brick and mortar stores in North America.

They provide posters, bookmarks, reimbursement for expenses related to book-signings.

They drop-ship the books I need, on the day I need them, at a 50-60% discount, with the option of returning any remaining copies and of paying within 90 days. The cover price is competitive at 10 bucks.

They arrange and pay for my travel whenever I do large trade shows, interviews or signings.

Result: Quietly, the book has moved over 4000 copies since coming out during the last week of September. About 200 copies (5%) were purchased by my co-author and I combined

Again, as Christian authors we might not have the same opportunities as our secular counterparts, but we still deserve better than what PA is offering us. We also have a moral responsibility to avoid, insofar as possible, those who engage in less-than-godly business practices.

Ann and Gratian

Ann: Yes. Both of the private "Bonnie" Posts are there as of now. It is really brutal in there. Mean, mean. I mean mean. Don't go in there without being well armed. The fur is just flying.

Gratian: That NYT ad was a funny deal. No one can really explain why book listings got in the ad. Oh, they try but I haven't seen an explanation that makes any sense. It is something like claiming to be the #1 bestselling PA book but only selling 18 books.

I doubt that Bonnie bought but a few of her own books. She does have a bookstore.

When my book became available last August, I bought 50 of my books and 150 books for one of the people that I wrote about, at his request. The cut off date for the ad was August 31 and my book was not due to be released until September 22. I didn't think it was possible for a book to be eligible for the ad until it was released but I was informed that I made the ad which would be in the September 21, paper.

It seemed goofy to me that a purchase of 200 books would put me on a "bestseller" ad and I did not see any value to me to be in the ad. There was kind of a sinking feeling because I thought 200 books to be very small number.

I was slammed on the PA boards and on these boards for buying my way into the ad. I hope Bonnie doesn't care any more about that ad than I do. It was totally meaningless, except to Frank Weaver who admitted to buying 1,000 books!

Thanks Dolan, and an additional request...

Dolan, thanks for explaining to me how the NYT ad worked, or I guess in this context didn't work. Like you, I am pretty certain Bonnie didn't buy her way into this ad. Rather, my point is that it would cast PA in an even worse light if she did.

On another note, if it isn't much trouble and you have a few spare moments, could you please PM me a few of the Bonnie posts, both pro and con, from the private board? Thanks!

Welcome!

Welcome Gjmort,

Here's a comfy seat in front of the fire; set a spell. I'll just go and fetch you some tea or coffee, if you'll let me know which you'd prefer and how you take it.

Chacounne

Welcome, Gjmort!

You'll never have to buy a drink in this town again.

gjmort said:

Gjmort here.

Nice to be with intelligent friends. I hope my PA past will not be used against me.

Have I horror stories to tell, but I need some sleep. Thanks for the invite and the kind comments. I will continue to work on PA's private board until I am banned. Shouldn't take any time at all.

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Welcome! And to all new visitors from the PA boards! These are indeed good people here. You will find that no one holds your past against you. I was, at one time, a (gasp) PA Booster, and was welcomed here without reservation.

PublishAmerica is a scam! They are the enemy, not their authors.

Is LBS here yet?

diana

gjmort

We're all writing buddies here and we understand what's happened. You'll never be banned from this site. Welcome home.

Triceratops

KellyS. said:

Hey Sher2, I will gladly pay you Tuesday if you buy me a hamburger today.
Hey, should that be my motto as a PA author?

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PA's motto should be "We will gladly take your money now for a book you wrote yesterday and pay you a week from next royalty period".

And Bonnie, how dare you not apologize on a board you are banned from! Don't you know what that looks like to the other PA authors?
Oh. :Smack:

A (for now)

Le Friday morning musings....

1. I never thought I'd say this, but PA does look better than American Book Publishing. Geez, what a scam, I'm surprised the New Three Stooges haven't contacted the owners for some business tips.

2. I am becoming a big fan of SOoTy's, look at this choice dialogue about the upcoming 200 authors book debacle:

Message:
You aren`t selling anything? <ha ha, that`s a hot one.> You are right about one thing though, it won`t sell. Your target market is the 200 featured authors.
Bookstores and libraries will not buy a $30.00 author catalogue that all other traditional publishers give out for FREE.
I`m not being negative, I`m merely stating the facts which are so obvious.
You are giving false hopes to the authors on this board who think they will get something good out of this project. They won`t, and at least I have the balls to say it.

SOoTy

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Which is followed by this tender dialogue:

Message:
Hi Karl,

Well, If I`m Ebenezer, at least I`ll be the one with the money. You`ll be Tiny Tim who is flat broke, and you`ll have to chissel the expensive communal project author catalogue that you can`t sell into a wooden leg. LOL

SOoTy

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SOoTy, if you're out there reading this, please come over to AW, pretty lady, I'm already a fan. Geez, you're honest and have a great sense of humor, we'd love to have ya!

Sassenach said:

See...this is Darwinian, and if one failure [albeit messy] is going to her stop writing, then so be it. A lot of writers have prevailed over much worse rejection. E.g., A Wrinkle in Time and Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance were rejected 100+ times. Ironweed was rejected 40 times.

If the publishing world is too cruel for this young woman, so be it. I agree that PA's a scam and has taken terrible advantage of people and their dreams.

I'm hopeful there are many talented PA'ers who'll recover and get even instead of mad.

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The thing is, there are a lot of newbies who end up thinking that their "PA experience" is normal and would have happened with any other publisher as well (except it would have been worse, because other publishers hate new authors and PA is nice enough to give new authors a chance... and so on and so forth). They've been given a very twisted view of the industry, and are discouraged before they even know what they've been discouraged from. Think about it, PA feeds them (and encourages) myths all the time to make sure most of them don't even think about trying other publishers, because they've got everything they need at PA (plus, you've got your PA family here!) ; other publishers dislike new authors, they won't market your books, you'll have to pay back your advance, POD is the future and the naysayers will soon be left in the dust, agents cost money, other publishers/agents will steal your hard work, they'll force you to change your precious book until it's a shadow of its former self -- these are just some of the things PA authors get pounded into their heads from day one. Is it any wonder some of them give up? Add to that the fact that so many of them believe that God inspired them to write and publish their work -- so if PA turns out to be bad, then God is either giving their authors some tough love, or punishing them. Either way, it's a small religious crisis on top of their professional one.

gjmort said:

Nice to be with intelligent friends. I hope my PA past will not be used against me.

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Not so fast PA author, we would like to have a few questions with you. You will now be subjected to the comfy chair, the fluffy pillow, and a giant feather. Of course you weren't expecting this on the AW board. Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Now for your first question: What is your favorite colour?

Johanna said:

The thing is, there are a lot of newbies who end up thinking that their "PA experience" is normal and would have happened with any other publisher as well (except it would have been worse, because other publishers hate new authors and PA is nice enough to give new authors a chance... and so on and so forth). They've been given a very twisted view of the industry, and are discouraged before they even know what they've been discouraged from. Think about it, PA feeds them (and encourages) myths all the time to make sure most of them don't even think about trying other publishers, because they've got everything they need at PA (plus, you've got your PA family here!) ; other publishers dislike new authors, they won't market your books, you'll have to pay back your advance, POD is the future and the naysayers will soon be left in the dust, agents cost money, other publishers/agents will steal your hard work, they'll force you to change your precious book until it's a shadow of its former self -- these are just some of the things PA authors get pounded into their heads from day one. Is it any wonder some of them give up? Add to that the fact that so many of them believe that God inspired them to write and publish their work -- so if PA turns out to be bad, then God is either giving their authors some tough love, or punishing them. Either way, it's a small religious crisis on top of their professional one.

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It is tough, and none of them paid their 'dues'. It's as good a time as any for them to learn what it's going to take to succeed. Persistence and the ability to handle rejection are two qualities necessary to deal with the publishing world.

As for the cohort of PA'ers having a 'religious crisis', I hope their faith will help them deal with the pain of being scammed. I think your view of religious faith [problems = punishment from God] is simplistic.

Geez Gratian keep that up and Grmort's gonna think if they keep writing that a "real" publisher is gonna want their book, pay them for it, edit it and market it.

Don't throw them into the light so fast.

Try chocolate and a copy of Atlanta Nights. If they can still function, then they continue.

/tongue-in-cheek

Ed Williams said:

2. I am becoming a big fan of SOoTy's, look at this choice dialogue about the upcoming 200 authors book debacle

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The sad fact about that thread is that SOoTy makes the screamingly obvious point that bookstores are not going to pay for a catalog when they get their free. Then someone later says:

We've got the go ahead on it and we can find out after the fact if it's useful as a marketing tool.

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This implies you can try any cockamamie scheme to market your book and see if it works.

Hey, let's try thiw one: go on a crime spree and leave a book as your "calling card!" ("Burglars broke into a Walnut Avenue home, stole $20, and left a copy of "PA Book." Police are baffled.") This way, you get paid for the book and the book title goes out to everyone in the city!

Let's go ahead with that and find out after the fact if it's useful as a marketing tool!

Diana Hignutt said:

Welcome! And to all new visitors from the PA boards! These are indeed good people here. You will find that no one holds your past against you. I was, at one time, a (gasp) PA Booster, and was welcomed here without reservation.

PublishAmerica is a scam! They are the enemy, not their authors.

Is LBS here yet?

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Wow, I've got some new heroes this morning! Gmort, LBS, et al. -- you know who you are. The fur is flying and blood has been let over in PA land. Cool!

Another PA marketing idea...

....go into a busy Wal-Mart with a hand truck loaded with your PA books, take everyone in the store hostage, and release only those who buy a copy of your book!



P.S. gjmort, welcome!

P.S.S. Anyone hear anything lately about the big Holiday Inn signing?

Welcome Gjmort

Good Morning and Welcome to the Newbies

realitychuck said:

Look, most authors don't make millions, especially first-time authors. Even those published by major publishers often cannot make enough to quit their day jobs. No one is expecting PA to make anyone rich, even if everything they said were true.

But you worked hard to work on your novel. Think of how many hours it took you to write it. And then you get a $2 royalty check to add to your $1 advance from PA.

If it took you 40 hours to type it (a 70,000 word novel would take about that long if you type 30 wpm), then you're making seven and a half cents an hour. Now, if you get it every hour, 40 hours every week that may be enough for you to be living like a king in a 1950s musical comedy*, but it's slave labor nowadays.

And what does this say about how much PA values your effort?

*The Pajama Game

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I haven’t even been over to the PA threads to check out the “Bonnie Slamming”. My first week there I was blasted for asking the wrong questions or having a difference of opinion and because I was new to PA they were right down cruel. (The other authors) I was relieved at the time to be banned from the board because I felt alone. I’ve been angry since day one that I signed the contract. My gut said it didn’t feel right but I couldn’t get any answers anywhere accept what PA was telling me.

It’s not just about the money. I worked for over 20 years and my book is made up of over 72 herbal remedy recipes. It’s full of stories, testimonials and humor and I wanted my book published for all the tea customers I have and others to find health through natural sources. My book was about helping others and I’m pissed as hell that it’s going to sit on the PA shelf for seven years. I have encouraged everyone I know not to buy one and I will not ever buy any but it makes me sad.

Snarzler said:

Try chocolate and a copy of Atlanta Nights.

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Chocolate? Hmmm... I never noticed this before, but yeah, PA does bear an uncanny ressemblance to the Dementors.

Oh my goodness! All this company comin' in so fast. Back to the kitchen.


Sooty, you are da bomb. So surprised that a) your posts are still up and b) you haven't been banned. Gjmort, welcome.

Once y'all get here, not only will you get a comfy chair, but a shoulder to cry on. I'll put more brownies in the oven.

gjmort said:

Gjmort here.

Nice to be with intelligent friends. I hope my PA past will not be used against me.

Have I horror stories to tell, but I need some sleep. Thanks for the invite and the kind comments. I will continue to work on PA's private board until I am banned. Shouldn't take any time at all.

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Welcome! You won't be sorry. These people are great and are a wonderful support team. You are just one week behind me.

Glad you made it.

gjmort said:

Gjmort here.

Nice to be with intelligent friends. I hope my PA past will not be used against me.

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Don't worry, it won't be used against you. And if anyone did do so, we'd probably hit 'em with a giant trout.

P.S. Hi!

Now on the lighter side…. Hope I don’t get banned for posting this…Hope it’s not considered advertising. If so I will remove it myself. Just don’t ban me from the Garden.

Before moving to Houston I had a shop in Colorado and it was called “Always Unique”.

When I opened my shop in Houston I called it “Mem’s Rear Window”.

In June I will be moving to the Hill Country around Austin and I need a new name for my shop. I am an old hippie and my shop has Teas, Books, Candles, Incense, Sacred Thread Clothing, Foxy Feet Sandals, Old World type Gifts and lot’s of Art.

Help me name my new shop and the name I choose will get a lifetime of book placement in the shop at no cost to you. Everyone else can place his or her books in my shop for 8% consignment fee. (The same amount you get paid in royalties from PA)

I will also be consigning art and other items for AW members for a 20% consignment fee. (I normally charge a 40%) If you are interested email me or just start putting out the “name of the shop”. I will make a decision on the name by the end of March. Thanks everyone!

PS I will not be taking anything until I get moved to Austin as I have closed the shop here so that I can get the house ready to sale.

Johanna said:

you'll have to pay back your advance.

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Just wanted to make sure everyone knows that often this is NOT the case. Unearned-out advances generally do not have to be repaid by the author. The only time most contracts say authors have to repay advance money is if they breach the contract. (Don't deliver the ms, etc.)

Of course, not earning-out your advance doesn't leave a good taste in the publisher's mouth, and makes them less likely to purchase the next book.

Welcome to the new folks! I didn't know you were coming, but I baked a anyway. Pull up a chair, get comfy, post if you feel comfortable, ask questions if you want!

Susan G.